Talk:Volkswagen Beetle

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Volkswagen Beetle article.
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Contents

[edit] Hitler's design influence

RE:

Hitler himself played some role in the car's shape and, possibly, nickname. Dissatisfied with the initial design of the car's front end (and perhaps caught up in the 1930s' mania for all things streamlined) Hitler penned a more rounded shape on a napkin and handed it to Porsche with the instructions, "it should look like a beetle, you only have to look to nature to find out what true streamlining is."

Does anybody know where this quote came from, please? I've done a Google search and only found it in the Wikipedia article or its copies.

I was under the impression that Porsche copied the Beetle's design from the Tatra T97, though its quite possible that Hitler's influence in the beetle's design has been air-brushed out of its history.

If the quote is unsubstantiated then it's probably a fabrication and should be removed. Conch Shell 09:34, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

  • There was also a series of rear engined Mercedes which looked awfully like that with a rear engine, the Mercedes 130... [1]Hektor 22:38, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

hitler specifically stated it should look like a maikaefer - may beetle. i have the original german quote in my files at work. --Skyandfocus 12:36, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I recall from a program on the History Channel that Hitler had laid out the specifications for the vehicle that would become the Beetle (e.g. 2 adults and 3 children, 62mph, etc.) and derided Porsche's designs, saying it should look more "natural" like a beetle. While I'm sure he didn't actually design it himself, if the above were true then it would make sense that Porsche just used the Tatra's design since it was already around and fit Hitler's description. 24.13.34.230 01:00, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

  • The Maikaefer was a car designed by Ganz. It seems that's what Hitler was talking about to Porsche. [2] Ganz had already fled to Switzerland at the time his designed were stolen by Porsche. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rfsmit (talk • contribs) 14:36, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The [3] link

This states Sitting at a restaurant table in Munich in the summer of 1932, Hitler designed the prototype for what would become the immensely successful Beetle design for Volkswagen.

Hitler didn't become chancellor until 1933 so judge this statement for yourself. Conch Shell 10:02, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

PS The drawing also shows a car with vertical headlights. These didn't become a feature until 1968, which also raises suspicions.

some drawings/paintings were faked by people such as kujar. i have verified original sketches for the kdf-wagen by hitler in my work files --Skyandfocus 12:37, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Another more comprehensive link

Another page where the pic is featured: [4]. Although that doesn't prove anything. DirkvdM 10:03, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

this image is NOT verified original. --Skyandfocus 12:39, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] the 67 bug photo

the 67 has the correct headlights. this was the first year for these

Only in the USA - all other markets did not get the upright headlamps until the 1968 model year (August 1967 onwards).

The USA-spec 1967 Beetles had 12-volt electronics; an outdated book titled Volkswagens of the World featured post-1967 Beetles produced in Brasil and Australia which still had the 'bug-eyed' headlight housings. More information about Beetles produced outside Germany (e.g. Mexico, Brasil, South Africa) should be posted, especially for the differences between the European and locally-produced variants.

The supposed 1967 bug has the later blade bumpers first introduced in 1968.

>> '68 << bug photo I had a '67 and agree w statements above; the picture is that of a '68 (bumper) - it should be relabeled. A '67 pic is at http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z7052/default.aspx

[edit] discrepancy with 'volkswagen' page

the volkswagen page says that those who paid into the savings scheme had it honoured after the war, this article says that they didn't - which is right?81.102.41.34 19:01, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Both. The german page [5] says:
After the war the savings in the value of over 280 million Reichsmark, which had been acquired by approximately 340,000 persons (of it 70,000 after 1939), lost their value. Many savers tried to enforce their claims with legal means. Volkswagen could however successfully prove that it had never arrived in possession of the saver funds, because these were on a blocked account of the bank of the German work. The processes ended 1961, under exclusion of a legal claim to grant with the offer of Volkswagens, the prevented customer a discount of 600 DM with the purchase of a vehicle. Who wanted to buy no new car or couldn't, was paid off only 100 DM.
85.181.59.117 11:19, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fuel Gauge

One of the neat things I remember about our '67 bug was that the mechanical fuel gauge operated even when the engine was off. From what I understand this was replaced by an electric gauge around 1967-68, so I suppose we had one of the last. --JeffryJohnston 20:04, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Need help for picture

hey could someone check the picture on the page about the Sten gun. There is a picture about a french partisan with an american officer. We are trying to find what the car is. If anyone with an idea give me your opinion? paat 00:35, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's definately not a Beetle. To me, it seems to have some similarities with Citroën 2CV and Citroën Traction Avant. What other Citroëns were there by that time? --Boivie 01:11, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
Whatever it is, it could have been altered like those lights on the wheel housing, for military prupaces. Only somone who knows the car would be able to say if it was or wasnt. Nick carson 11:07, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Type 0

I deleted this:

"Further more, some rumors suggest that the Beetle was originally designed for conversion into a makeshift armored car in times of war. Its style resembles a tankette without a turret or armor. There is no documentation or real-world support for these claims, however it is possible that they surfaced based on the misunderstanding of how elements..."

It's baseless, & an encyclopedia is not a forum for repeating preposterous rumors. Trekphiler 09:55, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] confusing layout

Someone please move The origins of the car date back to 1925... under the pictures. --Espoo 15:46, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How to classify the Beetle?

Is it a compact car, a subcompact car...? It's definately not a sedan, since it's a two-box car (I agree with the coupé label). My suggestion is to reference it primarly as an economy car, since that page also describes other inexpensive vehicles of the post war era. Any other suggestions? -- NaBUru38 01:55, 21 October 2006 (UTC) How about a rear-engined fastback, just like for instance the fiat 500 / 600 ?

A funny question :-)) - for me, and as a german. Whose parents first owned a FIAT 500 bought 1958, Next car then was a VW 1200 A, the "Standard" (simple) beetle of those years, bought 1965. We sat in the back of the FIAT 500 with four children, and every time it was fight. Then with the beetle: luxury pure in respect of space. So IMHO: the Beetle is no "subcompact" car (=FIAT 500?) . But a "compact car" - related to american cars. In Germany the beetle was a "normal" car until the early 70ies. The only bad disadvantage was a lack of luggage space, compared with other "normal" german cars like Opel Kadett, Ford etc. BerndB


VW calls is a "Sedan" in all advertising. It has a seperate trunk (though at the front), which is how a sedan is classified, correct? macman2626

I classify it as a good MPG car. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.143.252 (talk) 01:40, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hitler designed the beetle?

The text says:

The origins of the car date back to 1925, when Adolf Hitler drew concepts of the Beetle in a Munchen restaurant.
whoever wrote this is close: hitler was madly designing his entire intended german nation during this period. he was certainly beginning his car travels for campaign purposes, which led to his autobahn policies. but the kdf was still gestating in 1925 --Skyandfocus 12:34, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I seriously doubt this as Hitler is not really well-known for his engineering capabilities. In addtion, the German article mentions no such event. Is there any source for this assertion?--88.64.172.180 20:48, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I reverted the sentence to an earlier version as I suppose this was vandalism.--88.64.172.180 21:01, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

?The text should not be merged due to the serious historical difference between the two ~~robertbowerman
as academic interested in this area, heartily agree --Skyandfocus 12:34, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I read somewhere that Hitler did draw a couple of very rough sketches of a streamlined bodyshell in outlining priorities for the "People's Car" project. I think I've even seen a photo of these sketches in one of the biographies.
Streamlining was new technology for autos in the '30s, having been first employed in the Chrysler Airflow. Of course, Hitler was not an engineer, but he did have some interest in automobiles, and as several of his biographers report, he was able to absorb surprising amounts of technical information about tanks, planes and other weapons. This does not make him the "designer" of the VW; he was basically its backer.
(Please understand, I am absolutely no admirer of Hitler in any way; it's just that I've read a lot about the Nazi phenomenon.)
Sca 16:47, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Streamlinig was new technology which was derived from airplanes and blister zeppelines in the 20ies in Germany and first was employed for car building by german cars. Hitler war fascinated by the possibilites of new techniques in many respects. But his demand was a savvy car, or more likely he is said as having supported this demand. AFAIK he did no sketches for the body shape of the later beetle. But former he was a (bad) painter.. The later shape does not reflect an influence of a bad painter.. BerndB
unfortunately most of you are simply incorrect. hitler dictated the form to porsche, as noted below. only speer was trusted to work as a partner - everyone else was art directed by the chief reich artist. also, he was certainly not a bad painter, simply a workmanlike painter who belonged to the artistic working class. his major problems lay in his inability to incorporate human figures in his work - not surprising given his lack of emotional contact. his painting featured compentent renderings of architectural features, and he had a small but devoted following prior to his political activities. --Skyandfocus 12:34, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, got to throw my weight around as a university academic with a particular focus on hitler's aesthetics. hitler was directly responsible for the styling of the kdf-wagen; i have copies of verified sketches in his hand to prove it, which i can post here when back at my desk. hitler was intending to create a car culture - the autobahn were not built for the army, contrary to common myth - and this culture was to extoll the virtues of german identity through countryside touring. again, an aesthetic approach to fascist domination. it was common for hitler to involve himself heavily in design. he was a multi-disciplinary designer with an ability to transcend media types. not only did he design the swastika flag, but also the nazi banners, the uniforms, the opera houses, the planned cities, opera sets and more. he was artist/designer as total dictator building a state predicated on the aesthetic seduction of reason. check out the spotts on this topic for more --Skyandfocus 12:34, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

hi all. as i am delivering a lecture on hitler's aesthetics to my undergraduates later this month, i promise to come back and rewrite this article (and a few others besides). this article MUST NOT be merged with the beetle article, as the distinction between the periods is of sufficient interest to warrant a seperate entry. for those of you who wish to follow this area up, the fest book on speer is recommended, as is hitler and the power of aesthetics by spotts--Skyandfocus 12:34, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Please do! ItsGrimUpNorth 18:54, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How comes..

that - if given VW Beetle - there occur two additional wrong engine types in the right box (V4 & R5 machines which were brickbuilders´ homemade works but were never series versions), and if given Volkswagen Beetle only the right flat 4 engiens show?? 217.191.227.81

[edit] Model History pre translation

Nick Carson & me agreed to do something for the beetle article. Here we are / 1st with a pre translation of the model history of the german featured article. Regards BerndB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nick_carson#Model_history

[edit] What can be done with the VW Beetle

Sure wish some of these adaptations could be used as illustrations here. http://thrillingwonder.blogspot.com/2007/02/what-can-be-done-with-vw-beetle.html - Bevo 22:11, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] abbey road cover?

one of most famous ww beetle was the car on the front side of the beatles abbey road's album... we may insert that photo on this article...

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Tatra-t97-small.JPG

Image:Tatra-t97-small.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:15, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merged from Kdf-Wagen

I merged the info from Kdf-Wagen here--there wasn't much there. These two externals links were on that page, I have no idea if they're useful but saw the "no more links" note on the page so am putting them here:

Tocharianne 03:03, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The many names

Is it truly necessary to list the names of the beetle in 2 places: Under the photo and at the bottom of the page. Lordless 12:59, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

  • I've now cut out the duplication and sorted the list into alphabetical order by country or language.Mighty Antar 10:27, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gas mileage

How many miles to the galon does the new one get? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.143.252 (talk) 01:27, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Translation

The caption under the 1939 advertisement is not a translation, but a transliteration. If we're using English words, then it should read "Put aside five marks a week - if you want to ride in your own car!"--Rfsmit (talk) 14:40, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Why was there never a diesel Beetle?

Considering this car was aimed mainly at the European market, I find it unusual that the car was never offered with a diesel engine.Davez621 (talk) 08:18, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Apart from taxi drivers, Diesel cars didn´t catch on with the general public in Europe until the 1980s, when the Beetle was on its way to being phased out. --328cia (talk) 12:22, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Käfer

What's with "Kafer is an Australian family name"? Why on Earth is that in here?

And shouldn't Käfer (like all nouns in German, capitalized) be high the list of names in varous countries for the VW Beetle? Seems glaringly odd to omit the name from its country of origin. Sca (talk) 19:13, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Béla Barényi

There have been a few reverts regarding Béla Barényi's role in the development of the Beetle. One reason is the tone of the submitted edit. The other reason is that Barényi's exact role in the design of the Beetle is not clear. This reference (Classique car library) mentions he anticipated design elements of the Beetle. This Béla Barényi biography is more assertive about his role in the development of the Beetle. Upon clearing his connection to the Beetle a mention can be made in the article about Barényi's role in the design of the Beetle. Dr.K. (talk) 03:03, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


[edit] ."...complete or partial pastoralization...". Musings on accessibility of wiki-information

Am I the only one who had to look up pastoralization in the dictionary? It's a very pretty word, but I don't know if it's a word that features too much across the nations' breakfast tables. And while I HATE dumbing down, I also think wikipedia's core brief is compromised if it uses words that few readers understand - that is, where better understood synonyms are available. How would whoever introduced the word here feel about substituting 'de-industrialization'? It's an ugly word, and my firefox spell checker doesn't seem to care for the way I spelled it here. But I think its meaning will be apparent to most readers. OR do the two words mean different things? Thoughts? Regards Charles01 (talk) 07:24, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

As an after thought, my mother tongue is British-English. Maybe if I'd spent more time in the States, I'd have come across more pastoralization? Clearly, if that were the case, my 'take' on the word would need to be considered in that context.