Talk:Voćin massacre

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The part with the church is clearly pov. Such accusations can´t be in a encyclopedia just based on the writings of a Croatian doctor. ICTY only lists 32 victims so how could 50 be in the church? Paulcicero 12:18, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Based on a writing of a Croatian doctor that performed autopsy on the victims. The referenced article clearly says the 45 was an understatement, but the police chief was talking about those massacred by Šešelj's men in the last massacre. The ICTY lists 32 (31 identified +1) victims - again, murdered by Šešelj's men - of the pre-withdrawl killing orgy, not including the ones killed before that and before the village was captured... Don't forget the village was under occupation for four months.

There were about 20 survivors from the 80 people who were in the village at the time of the massacre. They survived by hiding in basements and cornfields and were witnesses to what happened.

The Spanish Inquisitor 08:07, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Then something is wrong with this article. In the beginning it is clear that the massacre was carried out during december. Is the article just on the massacre commited by Seseljs men or of all killed in that village? Paulcicero 15:34, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

It's about the December massacre, as it is quite clear except in the pre and post sections which deal with what happened before and after. The number of 50 you opposed to is the number of bodies found in the church. I really cannot find a way to make the sentance any more clearer, especially as it is a direct quote from the source. The Spanish Inquisitor 06:55, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Is there any ICTY document on the 50 in the church? Because according to Matovina most of the civilians were found in their homes. Paulcicero 08:47, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Paulcicero, you're playing dumb again. In fact, you've falsified the data here in your edit from 28 Sep 2007 [1].
You've changed 45-55 to 32 and quoted ICTY, although on that link, [2], says
"They went from house to house and killed whomever they found, in total forty-three civilians."
The title is "Annex for victims from Vocin, Hum, Bokane and Kraskovic". 31 in Vocin, 4 in Hum, 3 in Bokane, 4 in Kraskovic. For one unindentified, they mentioned no location (but under Vocin section).
Here're the locations of Voćin and Hum [3], Bokane [4] and Kraskovic [5].
That's near the places where the massacre in Četekovac, Čojlug and Balinci took place (3 villages that are one next to another) from 3 Sep 1991, when 24 Croatian civilians (including loyal Croatian Serbs) were killed by JNA. Kubura 10:52, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Foreign media and Croatia before Voćin

I've made a revert.
International reports from Croatia weren't properly made as they were supposed to be. Untill then, the Croatian fight to defend themselves from Serbo-Montenegrin attack (with the aim of violent changing of borders, and conquest of whole Croatia) was presented more like a peasant rebellion and some "civil war". To make things worse, those media mostly asked and redistributed the information they've got from the Serb-led JNA, as well as the info they got through former Yugoslav diplomacy, mostly run by Serbs and Montenegrins.
However, Croatia survived. Those "rebellion of bunch of rebel scum and foreign mercenaries" wasn't "crushed in 15 days", as it was being told in all Serbian newspapers and magazines, but the Croatia made it in its resistence. Croatia proved to be able to resist and exist.
Vukovar hasn't fell easily, but after three months of bitter fighting. Dubrovnik resisted and made it. Until then, world media redistributed the falsified facts, given by Serb-led JNA. Croatian victims were presented as Serb victims "slaughtered by ustaše". Since then, some other pictures began to appear from Croatia. JNA failed to quickly "solve the case" (as in international diplomatic circles is said: the more quick you do it, the less questions are being asked).
With the liberation of Voćin, a lot of things changed. Rebelled Serbs and JNA were pushed out enough quickly, so the evidences couldn't be removed, damaged or destroyed. Neutral international observes (forensicians) have fully documented and reported the whole case to international media, so stories like "Croats against (by world beloved) Yugoslavia = bad Croats" and "Serbs "pro-(by world beloved) Yugoslavia" = good Serbs" didn't work anymore. Kubura (talk) 08:26, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Listing at List of events named massacres

The Vocin massacre is currently included in the above list. Unfortunately the entry does not meet with our inclusion criteria, which state that multiple reliable sources be cited to demonstrate that the word "massacre" is used as part of an accepted NAME for the event (in other words, that multiple reliable sources name the event the "Vocin Massacre" or some close varient thereof).

At the moment, there is one source (the NY Times article) that discribes the event as being a massacre... but it does not name the event as one. If sources that fit our inclusion criteria are not provided, we will have to remove the event from the list... and, if possible, we would prefer not to do that. Since it is likely that those who regularly edit this page will be familiar with the sources, we ask for your assistance in correcting this problem. Thank you. Blueboar (talk) 12:10, 11 June 2008 (UTC)