Talk:VMware Server

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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:FC4underXP.JPG

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BetacommandBot 08:35, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of limitations?

There's more info in this article about what VMware server can't do, as opposed to what it actually does.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.175.44.23 (talk) 03:49, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps there should be a summary of the differences between virtualised OS's and hardward based OS, possibly seperated into advantages and disadvantages. I don't mean dot points, but more of a quick overview of each major point relating to VMware Server. In fact, seing as this article is stricly about a specific virtualisation product (ableit one of the leading ones), maybe this section should be removed altogether or severly shortened. Perhaps a quick overview of the differences between other VMware products (such as workstation, player ESX), and possibly other competing products. Thoughts?Whippen (talk) 11:05, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Risk of dataloss if the user makes an error

I did loose data with VMWare. It is strange. In a wordprocessor there is mostly an undo option. So if deleting a word by mistake it can be corrected. In an operating system there is a trashbin. So if, by mistake, a file is deleted it can be recovered. But for VMWare a client, which is in fact a complete system, moving the mouse a half inche too much to the left, from a button which is needed every day it is enough to loose all your work. Without a warning and without a possibility to recover. And VMware thinks this is normal behaviour. The solution can be multiple and very easy to program.

  • If a snapshot is taken there can be, each time when VMWare client is started a warning to commit or revert. So not needless a snapshot stays active with all risks of data loss. (a few lines of code)
  • Build in a warning (one line of code)
  • Default set the "Revert to snapshot" more hidden in the menu. (functionality exists allready)
  • Rename the original client file, so it can be recoverd if needed. (one line of code, no performance loss at all, only temporary needing additional diskspace)

I felt a warning is needed for VMWare users to prevent data loss. --Bernard2 (talk) 15:33, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I had to remove your addition to the article, because "revert to snapshot" is a basic function of the software, and this sounds like a case of PEBKAC (problem exists between keyboard and chair) - or mouse and chair, in this case. Let's not raise the alarm over a case of user error.
That said, some of your suggestions do sound reasonable, so I suggest that you take them up with VMware Support (especially with both VMware Server and Workstation now still in Beta form).
— EagleOne\Talk 21:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
The denial of the problem IS the problem. VMWare indeed says the same and feels it is normal that users lose data there data for a long period for there complete system. If VMWare thinks this is normal, potential users has to be warned about this. And if they accept this risk then they can freely use VMWare. The denial is deep inside VMWare and I informed them, by me dealer enough. They felt, like you, this is normal. I feel it is a wasted of time trying to continue informing different parts inside VMWare if they keep on deny the problem. To solve the problem itself is very easy. --Bernard2 (talk) 08:58, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
It's only a "problem" if you click the wrong button, as you evidently did. Accept some responsibility for your own actions and, rather than blame VMware for building in a "Revert to Snapshot" function (which I find to be very useful) just accept that you screwed up and weren't careful enough with your mouse clicks. — EagleOne\Talk 15:44, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
On (database) field level there is a check if something is wrong. This is named fieldvalidation. At application level there is support if somethings is wrong, this is called a undo function. On operating level there is a function when the wrong file is deleted. This is called the trashbin. But for losing a complete system it is 'normal" that if your mouse is moving a half inch to the left you lose everything. Some selfreflection would help. I do agree that the function "Revert to snapshot: is can be useful. But this does not mean losing all your data have to be lost. And I gave solutions for that. But if you feel it is normal you losing you complete system if once you move you mouse a half inch wrong then future users must be warned for this. --Bernard2 (talk) 17:51, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I removed the "risk of dataloss" section, as it wrongly suggested a product fault. I sympathize with Bernard2, however, the product did what you told it to. It reverted to a snapshot, which tells vmware to restore the state of the machine as of that snapshot. To me, this is one of the best features. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.40.192.20 (talk) 18:32, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

If VMWare was a open source I could solved it myself. The code to change is minor. But let us solve this in a Wiki style. Agree on what we agree and agree on what we do not agree with.
  1. I made a mistake I think you do agree.
  2. The mistake was moving the mouse a half inch to much to the left. I think you do agree.
  3. This results in clicking on the button "Revert to Snapshot" I think you do agree.
  4. Then I lost all changes until the last snapshot. This can be mayor depending on the situation. I think you do agree.
  5. It is impossible to retrieve my lost data. I think you do agree.
  6. I feel like this is not good solution and is a error, allthought a designed error. Not a bug which should not happen. So I feel the kind of error I made and the result of the error are disproportional. On this statement I think you disagree with me.
What happend to me can happen to anybody, and did happen to more people, just search in Google. A Wikipedia page should be about all aspects not only the positive one. So we can mention the content off the above text and mention below that there is a disagreement if this is wanted or not wanted behaviour. --Bernard2 (talk) 09:28, 24 April 2008 (UTC)--
I think this only happens to people who make the mistake of clicking the wrong button. The Revert to Snapshot function is working as designed, so I wouldn't call this a bug, or an "error", or anything but a difference in design philosophies. I like the idea of an optional confirmation dialog box before reverting to a snapshot, as a safety net for clueless users. I do stress the optional part, however, because I know what I'm doing and a dialog would just slow me down. And this is not the place to suggest product changes; please do so at the Server and Workstation Beta forums that I linked to, above.
The only thing that I agree with on your list is "[you] made a mistake". — EagleOne\Talk 15:59, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I tried to solve it in a wiki style. You do not. You do repeat yourself. In the last sentence you even deny things you said your self before. Solving the problem is much less work then making you understand there is a problem. Denial IS the problem. And you proved that even more.--Bernard2 (talk) 06:48, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
While I sympathize with your error resulting in user data, I hope they do not change the product in the way described. The computing world is already rife with warning-ware such as "Are you sure?" dialog boxes and "Press ENTER to continue" prompts. At first, these measures might help prevent an error, but very quickly users will become accustomed to hitting whatever keyboard CUA shortcut keystrokes are needed to dismiss the "Are you sure?" dialog box. It would be horrible to imagine what would happen with automobiles if "are you sure" type measures were taken with the gas pedal.
For what it is worth, the workstation flavor of the vmware product does in fact have the "are you sure" type dialog box when reverting snapshots.

Unfortunatley there's no place for original research on Wikipedia. Kindly ensure that any edits about this topic are fully referenced as per WP:V. Socrates2008 (Talk) 11:20, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Thats is a wiki argument which I do accept. When I found some I will come back on this issue, if not I will leave it this way. Thank you for your contribution Socrates. --Bernard2 (talk) 11:30, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Some complains about this subject found on internet : http://lifehacker.com/software/early-adopter-download-of-the-day/vmware-beta-20-adds-vista-gutsy-gibbon-support-322361.php

Quote : "All I want is a confirmation box that asks "Do you really want to revert to a snapshot from six months ago and discard everything since then, ..."

http://communities.vmware.com/thread/130151

Quote : "I got it all back up and running but made the mistake of booting the snapshot of the fileserver, which was taken in November of 2007, effectively leaving me without data for the time between then and now."

http://pubs.vmware.com/ws6_ace2/ace/wwhelp/wwhimpl/common/html/wwhelp.htm?context=ace&file=setpol_ace.8.15.html

Quote : "If the user chooses VMware Player > Troubleshoot > Revert to Reimage Snapshot, a warning message appears. It cautions that all changes to the virtual machine will be lost and urges the user to take this action only if advised to do so by the ACE administrator."

http://www.vmware.com/beta/fusion/releasenotes_fusion.html

Quote : "Note: Whatever state was saved in the last suspend is lost."

So even VMWare itself is aware that data can be lost and warn about that. --Bernard2 (talk) 12:59, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

VMware and the wider user base are aware of a lot of issues, bugs, security concerns and missing features - they belong in other places, not on WP. This, and other articles, would quickly get out of hand growing exponentially if they were a place to list such things. If you can verify that there are many established issues with the UI, not just one issue, then it might be worthy of mentioning. Take a look at Windows_2000 - it is a featured article, and has a small section on security concerns. There is no listing of individual issues, just a broad overiew of very well known and verifiable critisims.Whippen (talk) 12:49, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] NTP servers

"Network Time Protocol (NTP) servers should not run under VMware." Microsoft Domain controllers are NTP servers, and to the best of my knowledge, fully supported by Microsoft under VMware. Socrates2008 (Talk) 12:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

That's correct, NTP services and daemons should not be run under a VMware guest. It has nothing to do with Windows, nor Domain Controllers though, as the same applies to every OS - the issue is with hardware clocking emulation. I'm not exactly sure what you are pointing out with the above - it is already mentioned in the article. Yes, it could do with an expansion, but I don't think your paragraph cuts it. For a start, being or not being a Domain Controller has nothing to do with NTP, it is just that a large majority of domain controllers are setup as NTP servers, but this does not have to be the case. Whippen (talk) 13:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Every* domain controller is a time source in a Windows domain, and domain controllers are supported by Ms under VMware. Don't you agree there's a contradiction there? Socrates2008 (Talk) 13:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)