Talk:Vladimir Vysotsky

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An image we could possibly use
An image we could possibly use
  • The Wikipedia style page suggest images of size 200-300 pixels. Maybe we should use a larger picture? Maybe it will be better to use a thumbnail.
  • Some more biographical information could be added from the last URL I posted, provided that it is accurate. --IYY 20:12, 16 May 2004 (UTC)
Looks like we're working well on this, I'm also reading some sources, but I have limited time, trust that this will come out alright eventually. e.g. Marina Vlady wrote that they married at age thirty, that would mean 1978 1968 (instead of 1975 as presently stated). The father's report reads quite interesting. As far as the picture is concerned, it's from a cover, and rather low quality; could possibly make it 180 wide, guess higher quality would also strain the "fair use" clause... --Palapala 22:06, 2004 May 16 (UTC)
1975 seems to be the date on all websites, so it's most likely to be accurate. Since both of them were born in 1938, marrying at the age of thirty would suggest the year 1968, which is too far from our date to be accurate. Need to research more on this topic to be certain. As for the picture, I am not entirely sure what the copyright policies would be. Are we allowed to use an album cover? I will also scan a photograph of his grave site later. --IYY 23:14, 16 May 2004 (UTC)
What's the source of this magnificent shot...? --Palapala 21:55, 2004 May 17 (UTC)
The photograph was taken by my father some time in the early 1980's. --IYY 00:37, 18 May 2004 (UTC)
Will think of a way to incorporate it. --Palapala 08:19, 2004 May 18 (UTC)
IMDB's entry on Marina Vlady claims that the marriage date was 1969. This is also the date on the Italian article for Vladimir Vysotsky on Wikipedia. --IYY 03:46, 18 May 2004 (UTC)
Sounds more reasonable to me, will changed it. --Palapala 08:19, 2004 May 18 (UTC)
Not quite sure about the following line in the first paragraph: He was the most recognized Russian bard, although he himself spoke of this term with irony. He thought of himself mainly as an actor and writer, and once remarked, "I do not belong to what people call bards or minstrels or whatever." It's not that it's incorrect (as it does seem that the quote is by him) but maybe it does not belong in the first paragraph where it gives the impression that he did not take his music seriously. And that he was strongly opposed to the bard movement. In several recordings he did mention writing his songs in the "author's song" style. --IYY 21:01, 25 May 2004 (UTC)
Not quite happy with it either; you've got a point there that it might give a false impression. On the other hand, he used to state that his profession is "actor". Could you think of an alternative wording more appropriate...? --Palapala 04:22, 2004 May 26 (UTC)
IMO it gives just right impression. He stressed that he was a professional, not just next best hobby singer. Please don't forget that the term "bard" only gradually, in the historical perspective, acquired a high meaning. Initially, it was used mostly ironically. Only when time passed and only highly respectable "bards" remained in memories, the term became less ironical. For example, hardly Galich was called "bard" for his "ballada o probavochnoj stoimosti" (or who was the author?). A can agree that the issue may be put in more detail, but placed somewhere below down the text. Mikkalai 06:44, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

Again, I apologize for the wording in the edit comments. Unfortunately, I don't feel I can write much first-hand info. I added only for what I can vouch for. I will try to contact true fans and urge them to write more. Mikkalai 17:13, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Possible amendments

[edit] = Russia

<--
  • Na koncertah Vladimira Vysotskogo 13 [LP] (19xx)
  • Na koncertah Vladimira Vysotskogo 16 [LP] (19xx)
  • Mapuna Bradu [CD] (19xx) (note: most likely, this is Cyrillic characters made with a latin script for Marina Vladi -Марина Влади in russian)
  • Ohota na volkov / Hunting Wolves [LP] (19xx)
-->

[edit] good picture and sources

From a concert in Moscow, 1979 http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cap002hn2.jpg while performing "Pismo iz Kanatchikovoy Dachi"

Also, here are some potential sources (in Russian; however, could use Google translator) http://www.peoples.ru/art/music/bard/vysotsky/interview2.html - An interview with Vysotsky's doctor http://www.peoples.ru/art/music/bard/vysotsky/index.html - biography; mentions Vysotsky's meeting with Marina Vladi - in 1967. http://www.peoples.ru/art/music/bard/vysotsky/index1.html - list of historical events. http://www.peoples.ru/art/music/bard/vysotsky/history6.html - even more detailed bio. http://www.peoples.ru/art/music/bard/vysotsky/history5.html - mentions how in 1975 he slept 2-2.5 hours a night. http://www.peoples.ru/art/music/bard/vysotsky/history4.html - Mentions how his last love was an actress, Oksana Afanasyeva.

[edit] Discography

I know "Melody" published several vynils of songs of Vysotsky of the "patriotic" theme (a bureaucratic term, hence in quotes) of WWII.

The official Vysotsky websites go in deeper detail of presenting individual songs, even individual records of them, unfortunately I falied to find any pre-CD era discography. Mikkalai 20:11, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Drug use

Marina Vlady's book describes in detail Vysotsky's use of morphine over years. I do not believe the book mentions heroin specifically (which by the way, is a derivative of morphine, according to Wikipedia's entry on the drug), but it does seem to suggest that Vysotsky experimented with anything he could get his hands on. In any case, morphine use is indeed common knowledge and also appears to be well documented. The cause of his death is more contraversial and it is not necessary to speculate about it as long as the reader is informed at some point in the article of Vysotksy's alcohol and drug use throughout his life.

I don't want to start an edit war, but it's a well known fact that Visotsky was a heroin addict, it's just not often mentioned. I couldn't find a better source than[1], but the site doesn't seem to be a reliable information source. It's just common knowledge, I remember my mom telling me about it. Ask your own parents (is you're from the former USSR), they'll tell you. In my opinion, things like this, which are common knowledge but undocumented, should definitely be part of Wikipedia. --Aramgutang 04:47, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Perhaps it was alcohol addiction? — Monedula 06:31, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)
This was in addition to the alcohol addiction. The way I usually hear it phrased is "Высоцкий кололся", meaning he would "inject himself", presumably with heroin. --Aramgutang 10:21, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I'd like to point out that morphine is also generally injected. 67.138.153.182 21:55, 24 Apr 2005 (EST)
Yes, in fact Marina Vladi's book confirms that it was morphine (which was probably much more available at the time), as stated in the article. --Aramգուտանգ 04:27, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Indeed, I have searched Russian Internet and have found many accounts of Vysotsky's heroin addiction. So it seems to be true. — Monedula
There is "common knowledge", and there is libel. Unless you can provide a reliable source, the statement is false. It is not a gossip site here. I can list you a dozen of reasons why this could be a deliberate misinformaion. I am in no way going to idealize Vysotsky, but I'd suggest you to be diligent in serious issues. As a minimum, the phrase must be stated not as a matter of fact, but rather cautiously, something like: "Today some write that Vladimir was drug addict, but neither Marina Vladi nor other persons really close to Vladimir say that." (I am not vouching for the truth of this statement either; just an example.) Mikkalai 18:15, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I was hoping to encourage someone with access to credible information sources to either prove or diprove the statement, because the Internet doens't seen to offer a realible answer. And I didn't intend his addiction to have a negative quantitation (I love Visotsky as much as the next guy), but rather be identified as a factor that contributed to the deterioration of his health and his death. Heroin withdrawal is a more enduring and merciless experience than anything the average person is likely to experience in a lifetime, and is a result of only a few easily made bad decisions. A heroin addiction doesn't make anyone a worse person, most people experiment with drugs, this just happens to be a drug that doesn't forgive you for it. --Aramgutang 22:43, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I just watched a TV show about Visotsky's last couple of years, including the circumstances that led to his death, and several of the people interviewed -- people that knew him personally -- confirmed that he had used heroin as well as morphine. Added that to the article.

[edit] Joe Dassin comparison

I just wanted to point out that when Vysotsky is compared to Dassin, it isn't usually in the context of their music, but in a political context. Dassin was French/American, a foreigner, and the life of the Soviet people was completely alien to him. However, because of his communist political affiliation, he was given attention by the Soviet media. Vysotsky was loved by the Soviet people and yet the media almost completely ignored him. I think this should be worked into the article somehow. 67.138.153.182 21:55, 24 Apr 2005 (EST)

[edit] Is the link to external article, "The Word of V.V." appropriate in current form?

I just noticed the last entry in the "External links" section of the article is "The Word of Vladimir Vysotsky, by Akbar Ali Muhammad (international publication)". I took a look at the linked page (somewhat cursory, I admit), and it seems that this "publication" is someone's personal/religious (and, IMHO, very skewed) take on some Vysotsky's work.

Given that the rest of the entries in the section are links to [good] informational sites about V.V., song archives, and so forth, it seems that lumping this entry along with the others is a bit misleading (seeming to indicate that the article has some authority, which is arguable at best). I'm not sure what the wikipedia policy about external links is, but at the very least I think it would be more appropriate to at least mark it as a link to someone's personal opinion, as opposed to a real scholarly publication).

VG

Nov 15 2005

129.55.200.20 17:45, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cause of death

Was it that he died of a heroine overdose? The article doesn't specify.Constanz - Talk 12:49, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

it wasn't heroine overdose for sure. he drank with his friends in a bar. he drank too much vodka. and lost control of himself. people in the bar had to tie him up with ropes to calm him down. there were rumors that his overly emotional behavior in the bar was instigated by certain individuals(KGB??). that's as much as I know. he died later in hospital from heart attack. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.137.76 (talk) 18:21, 27 September 2007 (UTC)