User talk:VirtualSteve/Archive5

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Shirahadasha RfA thanks

Thanks so much for taking the time to comment on my my RfA, which was successful. I learned a lot from the comments, I appreciate everything that was said, and I'll do my best to deserve the community's trust. Thanks again! And thanks for your kind words and support. --Shirahadasha 04:52, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Congratulations from me at downunder too. Thank you for your message.--VS talk 05:29, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

DYK

Updated DYK query On April 20, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Robert D. Fitzgerald, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:03, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Great work once again. Cheers, Mattinbgn/ talk 10:17, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Matt - I appreciate your acknowledgement.--VS talk 10:19, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Townsville

Thanks for that, good to keep things nicely in order, I can't imagine how messed up and inconsistent the lower gradings will be in a wikiproject as large as Australia. FYI you might be interested in this. Thanks, WikiTownsvillian 01:22, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Wow, you're a harsh marker (Dancenorth australia & Australian Festival of Chamber Music) :-) what can I do to make these Starts into Bs?

  • Fair question - I try very hard not to de-sensitise the gradings because I am all for making Wiki a premium reference point - so the higher the bar the better the article. Compare these two articles (in terms of content) to Boomerang which is a B. These two articles have a meaningful amount of good content, but are still weak in many areas considerable editing is still needed, including filling in some important gaps of information. Eg Dancenorth australia is missing any information about 2007 although it has such a heading; sometimes uses the case - dancenorth at the start of a sentence and other times Dancenorth; the language is still a little choppy and reads a little like an advertisement and not like an encyclopedia article, etc. Australian Festival of Chamber Music has similar problems with regards language; there are headings that are non italics as well as italics; there are a number of wikilinks that could be created to assist the article, etc. Whilst both articles are better referenced than Boomerang the language used on that page is far more encyclopedic. Both of the Townsville articles could and should be further categorised - for example in areas of Dance and Chamber Music/Music. There may be fair use images available? Hope that helps? --VS talk 01:52, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Werdnabot

Hi Steve, could I copy your Werdnabot code? Harrison-HB4026 01:50, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

No problems at all Harrison, it's not actually mine of course but a manipulation of other material by some brilliant editors and a little touch of my own creativity. You will need to adjust some of the content because otherwise it will not link to your archive pages - and remove the image to the top left else you will have a caricature of me on your page (but you could put your favourite car there or of course no image).--VS talk 01:55, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks Steve. I will change it when I can. Harrison-HB4026 02:22, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

1000 Edits

Hi Steve, I am celebrating my 1000th edit! Harrison-HB4026 08:26, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Congratulations - that's not a bad start at all. Also I note you working with a co-editor on actually getting the last little bit of Brisbane Broncos to GA. Please note I am about to respond to at User talk:SpecialWindler. I think you could probably help him/her a bit more and that he/she would appreciate it.--VS talk 08:37, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

QXZ-ads

Hi Steve. Do you know what is happening with our WP:AUS QXZ-ad? Gurch has not got back to me yet. Thanks Harrison-HB4026 10:27, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

  • I'm sure he will when he can - he's a volunteer like us all so we probably have to be patient for a bit.--VS talk 11:18, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Brisbane Broncos

I honestly thought that GA was not as hard as you say it is to get. I looked through it when I saw it there and I thought it was of GA quality. I did not know there was a page like that in existence. Harrison-HB4026 02:27, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Absolutely no need to be sorry Harrison - I'm not trying to admonish you. It just seemed to me that you may have missed a couple of steps. It is probably important not to leave it as a GA for too long so I hope you don't mind but I am going to revert it back to B class and indicate that I will give some ideas of what needs to be done to get it to GA. An example of the sort of (appropriate) detail required both in terms of assessing and in terms of notes regarding assessment can be found on Talk:Riverina. You will develop further assessment skills as you continue to write more of your own articles. Cheers and thanks for your quick response.--VS talk 02:33, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Howdy Harrison, Just letting you know (because of your interest and for your future GA assessment reference) that I've had the chance to give Bronco's a reasonably full assessment. I've put GA on hold and nominated 18 further minimum adjustments here that the editors need to make to get closer to GA status. Cheers! Keep up your editing and your interest in assessment - BTW what is your next major article (now that you're a DYK recipient you should go for another one!!)--VS talk 04:32, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Brisbane Broncos GA on hold

(pasted from entry posted to User talk:SpecialWindler) Thanks for your request for assessment. I have completed same and at this stage I've put GA on hold and nominated 18 further minimum adjustments here that you or other editors should consider making. Please let me know when you are ready for a re-assessment and I'll be glad to help.--VS talk 04:35, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

What does it mean by No. 6,13,14,17 & 18 SpecialWindler 07:55, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

  • The word "orchestrator" suggestion at #6 - my points is - have you looked the word up - is it the right word for what you are trying to say? What is the plural of orchestrator? Is there a plural word? For #6, 14, 17, 18 (which many editors miss), as follows: your document currently shows the following content orchestrators [3], however when in fact it should be orchestrators,[3] however (please note that even though I have problem with the word orchestrators the point would be the same if you used another word such as coordinators, or collaborators or instigators etc). My point is that the in-line reference should always follow the punctuation or word immediately after - with no space in between. That is the same for all other such inline references where there is a gap or a missing punctuation as explained further in my GA on Hold comments. Hope that helps? Good work on starting the process straight away - though don't be afraid to take your time to make sure you get all of these items corrected.--VS talk 08:39, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
    • Thanks SpecialWindler 09:05, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
      • I've done everything I could on what you have suggested, you say something at the end with the images, i don't know how to do that, so... weather you want to re-assess or not??? ThnxSpecialWindler 09:20, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
        • There are also three that posed problems (#2,#3,#13) however I explained that i did something with them, partially solving them??? SpecialWindler 09:27, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Okay I will make a few comments at the end of the talk page as necessary and also go through the whole article in a day or two when I have a chance to go through every reference properly - redate them if necessary and check each of the images - I will get back to you as soon as I can.--VS talk 11:31, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok SpecialWindler 11:34, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
I've done that (hopefully) SpecialWindler 11:48, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
I am currently creating Barry Maranta, it used to be a stub before they redirected it to Broncs. theres a site with a bit of info on paul morgan, i left it under your not on Talk:Brisbane Broncos SpecialWindler 11:55, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

That's the way - GREAT WORK!! Can you put a note under mine to say you have done it. Then perhaps have a think about how you can fix the Barry Maranta and Paul "Porky" Morgan issue and you are all but there (I will just have to check each of the references though) - but otherwise bloody great work.--VS talk 11:53, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Good stuff again. Don't forget both of the pages to these two players can be stubs for the time being. I will have to move on to other things this evening - if you finish both this evening or tomorrow just leave me a little note on my talk page and I will check them out and get back to you.--VS talk 12:00, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
I have created Barry Maranta and linked it to Brisbane Broncos , I am going to create Paul Morgan (rugby league footballer) soon. SpecialWindler 12:07, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Y Done Created Barry Maranta and Paul Morgan (rugby league footballer) SpecialWindler 12:26, 21 April 2007 (UTC) OK

I have finished updating Brisbane Broncos, ive added a few things and changed a few things from when you assessed it last time, so it may be slightly different. SpecialWindler 00:00, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

News Limited 68.8% of Broncos Claim

Now you have deleted that reference of the 68.8% that News Limited holds 68.8 % of Broncos. I have since found a new source from Feburary This Year (which is more recent than 2002).

On Page 24, first section SpecialWindler 03:29, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

OK, my next aim is to get it to FA, like Sydney Roosters, but I might leave it for a while. SpecialWindler 04:16, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Excellent. I am glad I was able to help by giving SpecialWindler that link to News Corporation. Maybe later SpecialWindler, yourself and I could work on other National Rugby League teams (like St George Illawarra, who I support :) ) to bring them all up to GA or even FA status in the future. Thankyou Harrison-HB4026 05:59, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Just a note on the above (and then I will close and remove myself from this completed GA) that it will probably be best that I do not work on any future Rugby League article for two reasons (1) because my assessment for GA or any level for that matter on subsequent articles will be both ethically correct and far more objectively sound if I do not, and (2) with respect, whilst I appreciate other editors interest in the subject of Rugby League - other than supporting a team from the periphery I actually am not a Rugby League fan (I am non-converted Victorian in terms of sport). Just don't want to dissappoint you later (however my services of assessment are always available).--VS talk 07:04, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

RfA

Steve, it's not a matter of trust. Or rather, I trust a smaller numbers of random participants at RfA to still make good decisions, while making the RfA process less intimidating. As the Robdurbar incident recently showed, even if this does lead to a few more rogue admins (which is doubtful, since it takes a while for the worm to make its way to the surface in a bad apple; Robdurbar never showed any warning signs), it's not that huge of a problem. What is a problem is that we only have about 850 active admins, and we have 1.75 million articles and hundreds of thousands of active accounts. Because of what, on the WikiEN mailing list, has been called the "major dysfunction in RfA culture", promotion rates are very low right now... mostly because few sensible editors are even willing to go for it.--ragesoss 00:49, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

  • I appreciate your personal response on my talk page - and I hope that you will understand (at least I sincerely hope that you do) that I have nothing against you personally whatsoever. I like your edits, your edit count, your user page all of those things that you proudly display (and have the right to) - more to the point you are actually an editor with great mainspace material (which in my opinion is the most important task on Wiki). I don't even mind that you are not pointing us all to a conflict that you have had in the past for 2 reasons. Firstly because you may never have had one and secondly because YES I understand your concern that some will use that to create the appropriate dispersion about your character. However question 3 asks you for an answer to one particularly important component that I can't assess which is "How will you (read "intend") deal with conflict in the future? Of course I am not naive and know that you can answer such a question with just the right amount of tact and lip-service - but you seem to be a very trustworthy candidate and so therefore I doubt you would. Again therefore you are asking us to trust you I require the same respect and an answer to (at the very least this part of question 3) showing in part that you can trust us. Indeed this part of the the RfA is not IMHO deficient in any way. What do you say to my request?--VS talk 01:05, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
    • There's an asymmetry here. I don't distrust you are any of the others opposing or withholding full support. I don't have a problem with the three questions per se, either, only the treatment of those questions, and any others anyone asks, as mandatory. The aggregate of 100 well-intentioned, civil, and trusted interlocutors in a single RfA is overkill... too much of a good thing, if you will. What you see as an equal exchange of actions demonstrating trust, I see as 1 action each by the !voters and many grueling actions by the candidate. Like too much oxygen in a bubble chamber, it creates a toxic atmosphere at RfA, leading to the problem of not enough admins. The real damage happens before any given RfA even starts, in the minds of all the editors who would make great admins but know they would get beat up at RfA for any number of arbitrary shortcomings if they stood for adminship. If it really is a genuine concern to you how I deal with conflict, despite the respected editors who have expressed their support (many of whose judgment I'm sure you respect), then it isn't that hard to trawl my editor history. You might start with wannabe kate's tool, looking at the talk pages I've contributed most to, and then look for my edits in mediation and arbitration areas. It should go without saying that any candidate with even a chance at passing RfA intends to deal with future conflict calmly and civilly; first-hand experience and edit history research are the only good ways to determine the chance of living up to those intentions. (Of course, the combative process of RfA often provides editors with first-hand experience that a candidate doesn't deal well with conflict, but I think the collateral damage is too much to accept when edit histories are there for the looking. We don't have a problem with too few people willing to do RfA work, unlike so many other Wikipedia tasks, so putting more of the burden on !voters and less on the rare commodity of candidates seems like a good thing to me.) This is a long way say, my answer is "no".--ragesoss 01:46, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
  • (Smile) it sure is a long way to say "no"! I wonder if you could also assume good faith that I have used wannabe kate's tool to check your edits. My question was of course about future conflict and I note that you now do answer that question. I am going to accept it as an honest answer one for which I and others can hold you accountable if it becomes necessary. I take the opportunity therefore of highlighting the answer that you do give to my question within the long speech answer you put on my talk page and which IMHO you should not be afraid of displaying. I also take the opportunity of saying that I understand your concerns over good editors perhaps not putting their hand up for adminship because of the process of RfA (although many would say if you can't handle the RfA process how will you handle the sh*te many poor and anon editors will give you once you are an admin and actually can use the mop?). Finally I will change my vote to support because now I have your statement of intention about future conflict and whilst you were reticent to give such an answer, now given I can respect you more than enough as a candidate. Good luck!--VS talk 02:06, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
    • I wouldn't assume you had used that tool (or any) unless/until you said so. Many people do not, instead relying other things (e.g., answers or lack of answers to optional questions) to make their decision. I agree that good editors can handle RfA, but many don't want to. If they really consider the tools no big deal, it may not be worth it to them. Because while adminship is not a big deal, RfA has been a big deal for a while now.--ragesoss 02:42, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

DYK response from Harrison

Hi Steve, with the DYK question that you asked me I am not fully sure what I am going to do, I am going to work it out while browsing. Harrison-HB4026 02:59, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Fair enough Harrison. I guess I am just prompting you (gently) to move most of your edits to creation of articles from now on as I think you clearly have the skills to work on that path now.--VS talk 03:50, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Riverina-importance

Hi VS, please see my comments at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Riverina and please add any comments you may have. Cheers,Mattinbgn/ talk 05:37, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Good question - I have responded in some detail at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Riverina. --VS talk 06:12, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
    • You didn't waste time starting on this! I will try and get through some tonight, probably starting from the other end (i.e. from stub class). Cheers,Mattinbgn/ talk 19:32, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Sounds good - I'll have a go at the Start class then. Cheers --VS talk 21:52, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Brisbane broncos fa

Whatever, I have nominated Broncos as a FAC so if you want to leave support, but thanks for helping me improve Brisbane Broncos. SpecialWindler 08:03, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Scratchpad

Hi Steve. Please feel free to use my new scratchpad for experimenting. Harrison-HB4026 09:34, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Photos - nearly there

Hi VS,

The Riverina photos were taken on the weekend. It is a bit of a shame the light was so poor but I guess the farmers wouldn't have minded the (very) few mm of rain that fell. I was in Darwin on a flying trip for a wedding the weekend before so I took the opportunity to fill a photo request while I was there. The resort where I was staying was in the same suburb so I was easy to get there.

I am trying to schedule a big trip to get around Boologal, One Tree (where they are doing up the old pub and hope to get it trading again), Hillston and Rankins Springs. This will mean we have all of the sizable towns, other than Euston. There are still plenty of small communities near Griffith and Leeton that need to be picked up and some small ones around Finley/Jerilderie that I should be able to get to quite easily. These can be quite hard to find as, like Mairjimmy, the localities are railway sidings since removed. All in all, we are nearly there. --Mattinbgn/ talk 23:33, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Third opinion

Hi VS, could you please look at my recent contribution list and the conversation I've just had with SatuSuro and let me know if I've done something wrong, I guess it would have been better to consult first, but it was annoying me that no one was rating for wiki-politics so I decided to be bold and start on it and I thought that all Government leaders at least post-federation would warrant either a top or high rating (top for prime ministers and high for premiers) to a wikiproject based on Aust. politics... let me know what you think. thanks, WikiTownsvillian 12:20, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Okay Alec - well I'm coming in sort of half way here (but I must admit I did see the initial discussion with you SatuSuro) - so I will stick my (it ain't glass) jaw out and do my best as follows
  1. I agree with SS on the rating (in most cases) for politicians - I would say Top was reserved for the absolute most important ones, EG Robert Menzies, John Curtin, Edmund Barton because they are critical to understanding Australia, High is for most Prime Ministers, John Howard, Bob Hawke etc, I say most because a couple of them only had the job from breakfast until morning tea (like the fellow after Harold Holt took a long swim) and they are not of high importance, Premiers in most cases (probably all) (but Don Dunstan and a couple of others might be an exception) are of Mid importance and all the other politicians would be low (except for perhaps the Don Chipp, Pauline Hanson types).
  2. However I agree with you on the possibility of double grading an article in the same stream of code (I think this is the converation you are having with SS) but I do not think you should be using this code - as for Eric Willis ... {{WP Australia|politics=yes| class= stub| importance= low |politics-impor tance=High}} but rather use this code in full because that allows the Bot's and the scripts to work properly...{{WP Australia|class=|importance=<!-- Wikiproject specific tags --> |politics=yes|politics-importance=}}

I have adjusted Eric Willis for you to show how it works. Now if I have missed the gist of the conversation somehow just call me a D*head and set me straight. I am posting to both so that we are all singing from the same hymn sheet.--VS talk 13:06, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi VS, fair enough, in point number one are you referring to wiki Aust politics or wiki Aust? I disagree with you on what is important to wikiproject Aust politics, but understand these things are done by consensus, should I reverse what I've done or wait for a consensus at wikiproject aust politics on how to rate leaders before changing it? Thanks, WikiTownsvillian 13:14, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
I was refering particularly to Politics - however I note that Wikiproject Australia grades importance at Category:Top-importance Australian politics articles in exactly the same way as Wikiproject Australian Politics does at Category:Top-importance Australia articles. And certainly for politicians because they by their nature cover all of Australia probably will in many cases have the same rating on both the parent and child projects. We must remember that Wiki is a world wide encyclopedia so in the example of Eric Willis the question needs to be asked (if we are to grade him as High) is the subject of Eric Willis exceptionally important to Wiki. In my view the answer is no! His page only fills in some important details or contributes a depth of knowledge. In terms of your other question - well waiting for a consensus on this will not help the project and so (I say with a cheeky smile on my face) my mother always told me I had to clean up after myself. Cheers again.--VS talk 13:27, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


All material on my talk page now copied to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Australian_politics - thanks for your help! SatuSuro 13:28, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Yes thank you for the jaw and glad it's not a glass one, third opinion always helps :) WikiTownsvillian 13:53, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Always a pleasure Alec. No you can't afford to have a glass jaw in this game. Keep on assessing Alec is what I say - if we all sit around just talking about it nothing will ever get done. I just try my best with it and know and respect that if others come after and adjust well so be it. BTW What I said about the right code to use is 100% correct - it's your call but I have assessed around a 1000 pages in the last couple of weeks and I know that without that line the new assessment scripts that have just arrived do a double assessment on any article - neutralising the current assessments and making them both the same. Talk to you again soon. Cheers--VS talk 14:00, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


Hi VS, yes I saw that, and will fix it, although it'll probably take a week to fix a days worth of edits :) live and learn. Night, WikiTownsvillian 14:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Hey just before you go. I just set the code up {{WP Australia|class=|importance=<!-- Wikiproject specific tags --> |politics=yes|politics-importance=}} in my sandbox and then I copy and paste directly under the current (old) assessment code - copy the previous entries into their corresponding slots, delete the old assessment, edit summary and save. Piece of cake. - Just use your contributions page to move through systematically from where you started. Cheers--VS talk 14:31, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes thanks, that is actually what I had in mind to do (except using Word instead of sandbox) i was doing something along similar lines to do all that assessing today. Goodnight and thanks again. WikiTownsvillian 14:35, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi VS, can you check out what I've been doing and make sure it's formatted how you want it. Thanks, WikiTownsvillian 08:17, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Perfect job my friend!--VS talk 08:22, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Andrew Rochford

Hi Steve. Damn it, I was trying to get the DYK and then surprise you :). What fixes do you suggest? Harrison-HB4026 22:27, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Well since your asking, firstly it's great to see you editing articles (rather than only user/page talk page/scratchpad stuff). The article needs a complete spell check and grammar check - try reading the article aloud to yourself and you will hear what I mean immediately (remember you are show casing yourself), then it needs fleshing out in a number of parts which have very little information, it needs to be re-organised particularly in the biography section (which should be broken down into a couple of sub-headings when you have more material) and follow a chronological sequence, and finally you need to fix the interests section - it reads like either original research or POV so if you have a reference etc then that will help - but remember the rules on biographical articles on living persons. PS I had to reassess the article - it wasn't a start just yet but when you are finished totally let me know again and I will have another look at the assessment for you. --VS talk 23:02, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Quite a lot better. Has just reached Start Class and I have reassessed accordingly. However is still around 150 or more "content" characters short of a DYK application - which requires a minimum of 1500 else they fail it automatically. I suggest that you keep researching (would be nice to actually find his date or at the very least year of birth, is he married, children?) - you still have a couple of days before you must submit to DYK again. Cheers--VS talk 07:58, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Hey Steve. I need you to assess it ASAP because obviously the more time that it is not up there the less time it can be picked. Thanks Harrison-HB4026 09:48, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Potentially your next DYK

There you go Harrison. You had the skeleton of the article next to perfect but it needed a bit more work to find a few more things out. I rewrote it a little bit for you, added some further detail, wrote the references in a nice schmick way (including access date), fixed a couple of typos and included a few more links. All in all it has jumped from around 1350 characters to 2740 characters (including the bit extra you put in tonight which I put back in also). So I think you have a pretty good chance and I have renominated it for you. Cheers. Keep editing!--VS talk 10:38, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Charles Menzies (commandant)

Updated DYK query On 24 April 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Charles Menzies (commandant), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--howcheng {chat} 01:49, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Just One Question

Hey Steve, I just listened to your spoken article. Is that your voice or a computer generated voice? Harrison-HB4026 08:38, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

  • No not my voice.--VS talk 19:30, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks heaps for the random smiley!!! Chicken7 is my nickname at school aswell. LOL! Chicken7 08:07, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

  • My pleasure - keep editing and you're sure to get more and better awards.--VS talk 11:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Barricade Books

Greetings my friend. A quick question, what's your opinion regarding this? Also, your talk page is showing up in some article cats for some reason (Category:Top-importance Australian politics articles and Category:Top-importance Australia articles). I had a quick look on the page but I couldn't find the cat. Cheers, Sarah 08:14, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Hi Sarah, sorry just came back online. Thanks for the prompt on categories showing - I found them (part of a message earlier on that I have delinked to remove the listing). In terms of your prompt on Barricade Books. My opinions include (1) Notability is only just (but hardly if at all) established by the second paragraph which refers to the "Neo-Nazis" - the first bit about the police charging an employee for selling obscene material is nothing at all in its present format - BUT that said there is no direct citation to allow for verification of the material - other than the general reference link here which whilst mentioning the act seems far too close to the source, (2) The last link in the body content is spam, (3) The second link under References is exactly the same link and is not a reference per se`. All in all it does not belong on Wikipedia in its present form because it does not pass WP:NN and it appears to be a possible speedy under db:spam or advert. At the very least a <prod>. In fact I would have dealt with the article at the same time as answering your question but not sure if you have another plan?--VS talk 10:27, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Steve. I didn't have any specific plans, but I was considering speedying it as a not-notable business/ spam. And I just wanted a second opinion. I noticed you had recently been online when I replied to Chicken but I must have just missed you. :) I think I might just go ahead and speedy it. I had a look around Google and I couldn't find anything that would add to its notability claim. Thanks Steve. :) Cheers, Sarah 10:38, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Quick tagging! Nice team work. :) Sarah 10:40, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

(Mario Milano's got nothing on us.) My pleasure - also put notification on original authors user page so he can come back to us if he wants.--VS talk 10:41, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Barricade Books did acquire some local notability regarding the neo-nazi attack. This was reported on, on the front page of the Moreland Leader newspaper, as was the charging of the store worker, according to my memory. Moreland Leader is not archived on the web, but Brunswick Library may contain archive copies. The Age also reported on the neo-nazi attack and on a worker being charged, but once again I doubt if this news has been retained online - it should be verifiable through the state Library or other institution which subscribes to the CD archive of the Age. There was also a dispute between the Bookshop and Council over the replacement of the temporary boarding of the shop windows that was reported on page 1 of the Moreland Leader. Not all information of notability is found on the web.

Personally, I thought the original listing of Barricade Books was maybe marginal, but they were certainly notable in the local area of Brunswick and notable in terms of political bookshops in Melbourne. --Takver 13:23, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

{{hangon}} Is this the right place for this? Anyway. For what its worth .., given the marginality and rarity of places like Barricade Books, by definition, they are 'notable' when they appear in a suburb. Their presence on Sydney Road was certainly something most people who were there at the time were aware of - right next to a busy tramstop, oppostite the entrance to Barkly Sq SC and a popular pub. If an encyclopedia in this era can't have an article about such an outfit, and a link to a website for such a small bookshop, selling such minority interest material, then there are questions about whose interests WP is serving. Its not like they are a huge corporation extorting massive profits and piggybacking on the unpaid efforts of Wikipedians, is it? There's advertising and there's information, and we need to be clear about the difference.Eyedubya 13:44, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Hi Takver your comments are well founded and it looks like you have read my message when I was asked what I though of the Barricade Books article. In a nutshell the article was speedy deleted because it was (in the form written) just an advertising link to the bookshop complete with inappropriate spam link in the body. As you know establishing notability is up to the first and then subsequent editors. From that perspective saying something is so doesn't make it so - it is only external third party references that are likely to assist. In the Barricade Books article there were none whatsoever. I agree of course that not all articles relating to notability are available on the web - but if the Age reported on it then that should be locatable - and alternately the Moreland leader article will still be available to borrow from the publishers. In the past I have taken photographs of those types of things - put my photo on to commons and then linked my referencing to the article (in correct format) and linked the reference note to the picture (for verification). Trust that helps?--VS talk 21:31, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I would like the article on Barricade Books undeleted. I can add references to that article from the Moreland Sentinel in regard to the police raid and the neo-nazi attack. As suggested by yourself I will load the principal article from the Moreland Sentinel July 17 1995 Page 1 to the Wiki Commons, hopefully tonight as the principal reference. --Takver 07:45, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

On "NPA"

Is it still considered a personal attack if you KNOW the person and they understand your sense of humor? Serious question--no sarcasm intended. --PureRED - Kyle Floyd 01:29, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Yes it is still considered a personal attack if you KNOW the person.--VS talk 01:30, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Understood. --PureRED - Kyle Floyd 01:32, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Brunswick People

Thanks for your advice about editing. WRT referencing, I would have liked to have been able to provide a more direct reference, but it doesn't seem possible. If you go to the Moreland Council webpage and click on the appropriate links to get to the relevant page, the URL doesn't change from that of the Council's front page. And then, the profiles are PDF files, not pages in their website. Maybe its my computer, maybe its my ignorance, but I can assure you, I am not attempting to obfuscate here. If I could just ask you a question: why are the totally unreferenced and inaccurate statements that you have reverted to more acceptable than the content I provided? After all, if someone can get to the Moreland Council website, its likely they can use it to get the data I'm using, since its designed for a local community, not high-powered academics or professionals (supposedly). I guess I'm suggesting that since this is a link to a verifiable source, using data from the national statistician, then the kind of person who would be sufficiently interested in the statistics to want more detail might also well be motivated enough to click through a bit? Or not? you tell me. Oh, I do have a username, I;m new, I just forget to logon, since that's not how I'm used to using Wikipedia. Anyway, thanks again for your advice. User:eyedubya 13:25pm AEST, 26/4/07

On the Moreland Council website, under the heading 'Moreland Profiles', click on <profiles>, then click on <moreland suburb profiles>, then again on <moreland suburb profiles> then under the heading 'Moreland Suburb Profiles', click on <Brunswick>, the under the heading 'Brunswick', click on <Indigenous population, cultural diversity, family and household data>. A pdf file will open up, and this is the report I have referenced. Sorry, I am used to Harvard citations. This is all a but Byzantince at the moment.
QUESTION: Given that such documents may come to hand in hard copy and not via the web, how does one provide an acceptable reference? I trust that material that only exists (or that an editor only has) in hard copy is acceptable! If its acceptable at the highest standards of academia, is it also for Wikipedia? Eyedubya 03:43, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Okay well done with the steps - give me a few minutes and I'll have a response or some further questions for you.--VS talk 03:45, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Right - well to your questions.
  1. When you open the pages as you describe on the steps right up until you reach the pdf page and it is open on your computer look up at the address bar at the top of your computer screen and you have ended up with http://www.moreland.vic.gov.au/pdfs/profile/Brunswick%20Suburb%20Profile%202004%20b.pdf It is that address that you must use. (The same works for any similar reference.) That said I note a small problem with your referencing because initially you referred to pages 22 and 26 of this pdf but when you open it up there are only 17 pages - so I am guessing this was a mistake on your part - so pls make sure you use the exact page within your reference - for each and every fact that you are trying to verify).
  2. In the case of book references - you must provide the full details of the book (like you with Harvard referencing) but also include the actual ISBN number (because we have ways of checking content etc directly through this number). Towards answering this question more fully, if you look under the heading references you will see what has to be done - although for content specific issues you should put down as a reference in exactly the same way as a web reference (same coding) but use the details of the book plus page number within the [brackets]. Hope that helps. Please keep editing, use encyclopedic language and remember that your work is being scrutinised by 100's of people so don't get too upset if they have a different opinion - just be ready to back it up by following the rules as posted in my welcome message to you. Cheers!--VS talk 03:59, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks very much. If you open the pdf, you'll find that although it is 17 pages, the page numbers that occur in the document that has been saved as a pdf are different - and go up to 30 or so. I cited what I could see on my screen, the page numbers in the text of the document related to the data I was looking at. So, the question here is, how much guidance does an editor provide about dealing with this kind of slippage? eg notes in the reference section advising on the way the pdfs will look?
  • Glad to be of help. Oh yes I see what you are saying - I'd suggest you use the website numbering but if you prefer the other then I'd use words such as as numbered at the bottom centre of the document.--VS talk 04:21, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Q: Again, I'm interested to know why it is that the previously unreferenced 'factual' statements were deemed acceptable for so long - can you answer that please? Eyedubya 04:12, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I note that you have asked that question on the Brunswick talk page also. I have reorganised that page so that it can be read more easily and hopefully you will get an answer there. I don't have one for you as the part you are referring to is not in my portfolio (but I can tell you it has nothing whatsoever to do with your slightly emotional concern over Multiculturalism. Wiki is not censored as long as it meets WP:V and other like rules.--VS talk 04:21, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
The idea that reason and emotion are two separate faculties has been discredited, see Damasio. You may wish you were merely a brain in a body, but unfortnately that was a dream which has now ended. :) Thanks for your help.Eyedubya 04:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Big Brothers cut and paste

Man ... that's scary ... am I one of 'us' now? Eyedubya 03:27, 26 April 2007 (UTC)


Rennie, New South Wales

Not a problem. Now added to the watchlist. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 11:34, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Refactored from Barricade Books - dispute by Eyedubya on WP:NN

VS wrote:

  • Eyedubya your ideas on notability are quaint but incorrect. Here's what Wikipedia is not and it certainly is not a soapbox - indeed this line you are running about everything being a conspiracy is getting to be silly especially when I and others have given you many links to the guidelines and if you chose to read them and do a search through wiki on controversial subjects then you would see there is no censorship. However you just have to follow the guidelines and be prepared for editors to come in and pick you up on errors that you make. If you can't stand that sort of dynamic environment then you are in the wrong place.--VS talk 21:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
OK, one thing at a time. Firstly, the differences between your conception of 'notability' and mine are neither about 'quaintness' nor 'veracity'. You are confusing an ontological issue with an epistemological one. You may hope that there is only one mode of existence that transcends all others, but that is all it is - a hope, grounded in faith. Objectivism is tied to language and language is a production of humans, it is not something that is part of the world 'external' to our consciousness. While I do not doubt the existence of a world independent of our consciousness of it, it is logically impossible for us to know that world 'as it is' independently of our consciousness of it. Any claims to veracity (your concern with what is 'correct') are ultimately tied to the ontological mode in which truth is deemed to exist. There are more than one of these. 'Quaintness' is clearly a subjective, qualitative judgement and its appearance alongside the notion of 'correctness' is evidence of the co-existence of incommensurable ontologies in your own thinking. This is only human.
Secondly: the assertion that I am running a 'line' about everything 'being a conspiracy' is unworthy of you, given your prior generosity and warm welcome, and my attempts to to be a better editor since then. I am very happy that editors have been picking up on my mistakes - that is indeed one of the few ways to learn. At the same time, every new addition to the community of editors is going to alter the conversation a little bit about what is possible. You are suggesting if I can't stand the heat I should leave the kitchen. But this is in response to comments of mine that are pointing out inconcistencies in the application of policies, guidelines and etiquette. Just because you got to the stove first, does that mean you are the only one who is allowed to stir?  :)Eyedubya 05:06, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Image:SoleteRayosÑajo.gif Very amusing - thank you - and glad to hear that you are learning. Now you just need to learn as has already been pointed out to you, that just because a single set of inconsistencies (yours) are found and considered, whilst others are not (given the size of the jungle) that that does not mean that there are deliberate inconsistencies in application, or a need to chop the guidelines asunder based on wordy rhetoric. (Indeed if you agree with our interpretation of the rules but feel despondent because others are not so treated - then Wiki gladly extends to you the right to act similarly to the edits of others - because our goal is to create an on-line, verifiable, encyclopedia) So before you rise so verbosely to the reasonable chagrin of your fellow editors - Let me make this abundantly clear I absolutely welcome you to the kitchen and invite you to stir the pot, but first read up on the guidelines of the kitchen, so that you do not burn your fingers so often, and so you assist us in adding some legitimate ingredients to this recipe (edits and articles) that to date contains 1.7 million different such items and which simmers delicately now for several years.--VS talk 05:52, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
PS My generosity towards you will absolutely continue unless you totally breach WP:Civility. Quite simply ask and I will assist in whatever way I can, even at times without you liking the answer. However please if you could make your questions less wordy that will allow both of us to get on with useful and correct editing. If on the other hand you feel the need to argue against the established order of things (and in many cases that may be needed) - then there are pages for each area of concern that you have expressed over the last couple of days. I will be happy to point you in the right direction. Keep editing!--VS talk 06:08, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
THANKS - please point me to the 'pages for each area of concern that (I) have expressed over the last couple of days'Eyedubya 08:21, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

No problems happy to help. Go to the talk pages at WP:NN, WP:V, WP:OR, WP:NPOV & WP:RS. I suggest you read through the archives because you will find links to the almost uncountable discussions by editors over the years as they hashed out policies and guidelines. You'll be able to see where your specific questions were answered and if not - then go to the bottom of the latest talk page and put your suggestion for changes up. I am sure you will get a response from fellow editors that either disagree or agree with your views. And in the event that one of your suggestions reaches critical mass you will discover that there is a strange sort of democracy here where those suggestions are put up for what is referred to as an !vote. Good luck.--VS talk 08:37, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi Steve

Hello Steve, I am good thankyou. I am not back at school yet because I am moving house. Right now I am just browsing (a bit lazy), but one thing that got me intrigued around 20 minutes ago. It is that User: Chicken7 is around my age and knows both you and Sarah. I dropped him a line because I want to make more Wikifriends and I thought he was perfect because he is (well I guess you could say) adjacent to the group I am in. How are things with you? Thanks Harrison-HB4026 09:21, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Nice to hear from you Harrison. I hope your house moving is going fine and I assume you are excited about the prospect of a new DYK? Yes I did notice your conversation with Chicken 7. As for me - well I will be off-line for the next couple of days - travelling to Melbourne and watching the AFL. Let me know how things go with Andrew Rochford. Take care.--VS talk 10:33, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi

Hi Steve. I will also be offline for a week or two starting tomorrow because we are changing ISPs. Could you tell Sarah and Chicken because I am not sure what time my internet will cut out. Thanks- and enjoy your aerial pingpong (just kidding). Thanks Harrison-HB4026 11:26, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Oh nevermind, I don't have to worry about my internet for a while. Harrison-HB4026 11:33, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

My RfA

Hello VirtualSteve, thank you for supporting my RfA!
I was promoted with a final tally of 68/12/0.
Also, please wish a Happy Birthday to Her Majesty the Queen. Vivat Regina!

Ashfield

Thanks for your comments on Ashfield, New South Wales. It will take me a little while to change the formatting of all the references as you have suggested, but when I have I'll let you know. I would appreciate your further assessment. Crico 21:54, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

  • That will be fine Crico - just let me know when you are ready and I will reassess.--VS talk 22:08, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Question: How does we know the residents of Ashfield 'like the architecture'? Please can you ensure that a direct reference is provided to the source of this assertion. It would also be good to have a direct reference regarding the accommodation preferences and numbers of 'transient residents'.Eyedubya 04:20, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
That architecture quote predates my contributions. I have tried to keep as much of other people's contributions as possible but I'm happy to change anything if wiser heads advise. That's partly why I'm looking for assessment and advice now. Of course, I won't blame all the articles problems on former contributors. The accommodation and transient part is mine. No hiding there. The info is from the ABS. I'll get a specific reference. Crico 05:34, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Crico at best Eyedubya is being cheeky - he has enough work to do in his own articles. At worst he is being rude using my talk page as his soapbox - I am going to assume that his edits are the former under WP:AGF but my discussions with you are private on this page and if he wants to discuss with you your edits then he should do so your talk page. (PS Keep up the good work on raising the standard of the Ashfield page).--VS talk 06:04, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 :) Sorry, about being on the wrong page, I though we were all on the same page? Consistency is implicit in the concept of policies in the first place. Moreover, I'm genuinely interested in the answer to the question about Ashfield's residents' preferences more than anything else. I'll watch that page from now on - is there a way of knowing who's keeping a watch on what, or whom for that matter? Eyedubya 06:54, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

No need to be sorry unless you do it again. If you want to discuss these things then it is correct to move away from private discussions between two editors and move your question to the article's talk page - sometimes that won't help but in many cases an editor interested in the topic (and hopefully the one that did the editing in the first place will respond). In terms of watching who and what - heck I can't answer that otherwise I will be exterminated .... (no seriously you can watch anything you want by adding it to your watchlist but be warned that's a great way of going absolutely insane) best to watch your own area of interest, build up some decent editing and learn the 'rules' as you go.--VS talk 07:17, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I have changed the formatting of references and fixed the image problem on Ashfield, New South Wales. I would appreciate your further comments if you're still happy to do so. Crico 13:12, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your message. I should be able to get to it later today (this afternoon).--VS talk 21:57, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I think I may have responded to your last message on my talk page in the wrong spot (my page instead of yours). I'm still keen for you to have a look through Ashfield. I'm not desperate about it being graded a good article. B is fine. But I am keen on some feedback on what works and what doesn't. I want to improve the standard of a number of other local articles so some feedback on Ashfield (which has been a bit of an experiment for me) will help guide my approach to the others. Crico 03:54, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

    • My apologies Crico - I did see your message above and your message in my archives today - real life has swamped me a bit so I don't have quite the time I would like to conduct this task - but I will ASAP (hopefully before Sunday this week).--VS talk 07:43, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
      • Thank you for your comments, exactly what I wanted, lots of specific points and some good general comments. It'll take me a little while to go through it all. I've had a quick look at Canberra and I'll have a think about whether to change the structure of Ashfield a bit or not. I have a couple of questions already but I might save them up for when I've been through all your comments :) Crico 01:11, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Spam links

If the business's claim to notability rests on the shoulders of the attack and an argument with the local council, it is definitely not notable. Those articles (the Leader, the Age) would be available online through Factiva. Also, interesting, I just noticed that the source cited in the article is from Takver.com and according to his user page, is Tirin's own site. That is really unacceptable as referencing and adds to the feeling of spam wrt that article. Actually, we're currently hosting 79 outbound links to Takver's site. [1] That is going to have to be looked at as WP:RS, WP:V#SELF and SPAM. *sigh* Sarah 22:17, 26 April 2007 (UTC) P.S Steve, no, unfortunately I didn't make it to the breakfast meeting with Jimmy. I just couldn't drag myself out at that time. :( Sarah 22:17, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Thanks for the information regarding this [2] - I am going to go through each one next week. Any special rules/considerations I should know about?--VS talk 22:29, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Thankyou for pointing out that conflct of interest. I don't mind abiding by it henceforth. takver.com is my site and there is a large amount of source material there, some researched and written by myself, but most of it researched and written by others which I host on my site. This includes at least four books (at least one only available by internet) and many pamphlets. I have put in links from wikipedia articles to my own site where the source material was highly relevant. I note that many other editors have also inserted links to my site, and quite possibly they outnumber the links I have inserted. I have no problem in a review of all these links, but I believe such review should be impartial and judged as to their relevancy to each article. I do not think you should undertake this review. Can we perhaps decide on another Australian admin willing to do this?--Takver 07:45, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Fair question. I do not mind at all who does the review - but I hasten to add I actually have not done a review myself either - except for two or three articles which declare themselves as SPAM because they were presented as links within the body of the article placed not as a reference but as a direct link to your website.
  • For all the others I have set them up - fairly - so that you and others can review the inclusion or otherwise. To see this in action please go to those articles you will see I have as is required temporarily removed the link and then set up a discussion area on the talk page. In my view if you discuss the addition of references to your site for any given article (in a way that meets WP:SPAM guidelines) then they are free to go in.
  • However IMHO the great majority of your links are problematic in the way that they refer to eg: an author and a book - which is of course fine but rather than giving us an ISBN as the reference your or someone leads us back to your site.
  • I should also add that I have tagged a couple of articles which with respect do not meet inclusion criteria except for the reference to your own page which you added as the initial editor - in other words there are no other references but yours.
  • To conclude I hope that you understand I have no problem with your website at all nor in fact those articles to eg: poets and the like except that they must be referenced to third parties, excluding of your own site except where absolutely such a reference does not display a conflict of interest--VS talk 07:59, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks Steve! I certainly wasn't expecting you to start going through them yourself. You have no idea what a nice surprise it was to come online and today and read that you had checked them 70% of them already. :) I was going to continue on but I wasn't sure where you were up to when you stopped. :/ Thanks Steve and I hope you had/have a good time at the footy. :) Cheers mate, Sarah 09:03, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Hi Sarah, thanks for your return message, I appreciate your words of encouragement. Footy trip was good - game was exciting with 35 goals kicked. In relation to self-references what I did was to go down the list and remove the self reference for 70% of article inclusion as a reference, with a suuitbale message at the edit summary, then leave a discussion point on the talk page. I also removed totally 3 links which were simply spam links in the content of the article. As you know I informed Tirin. He took it politely (probably even well) and I note that he has gone through to make discussion comments. Examples are Talk:Sydney Push, Talk:Friendly society, Talk:William Holman, and here - Talk:History of Freemasonry where another editor altogether has addressed the situation. Perhaps if you have a moment you could look at what's left as I'm sure I may have missed a few others?--VS talk 22:05, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the info VS. I had a quick look and it looks like you've applied the policies perfectly. :) I think I'm going to have to get to work on that application to give you more work and get yelled at and abused a lot!! Anyway, I have to go offline shortly, just a fleeting visit tonight, but I'll try to have a closer look through those pages in the next day or so. By the way, I'm glad you enjoyed your footy trip. I'm afraid that Harrison is feeling a little outnumbered on the footy front and is trying (no hope, of course) to convert me to NRL! Take care Mr S, Sarah 11:55, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Gregadoo, New South Wales

Hi Steve,

Do you think this article needs to be added to {{Riverina}} -- Cheers, Mattinbgn/ talk 10:49, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

  • This was a bit hard to call - Gregadoo is the site of the tip for Wagga - but on reflection and using the same parameters as we have previously discussed my answer is yes - Gregadoo is a village location that should be on Riverina.--VS talk 22:11, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

DYK

Updated DYK query On 28 April 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Andrew Rochford, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Carabinieri 11:11, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Not a problem. By the way, I know "how hard is this?" sounds quite harsh, but I came up with it, and now a couple of other editors are using it - we hope it might spread to farther corners of Wikipedia. Still, I hope it didn't upset you too much. Biruitorul 17:41, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

  • No No nothing about your edit summary upset me at all - that's one of the benefits of DYK's - lots of other editors looking at them. Cheers!--VS talk 22:07, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Climate of Australia is the new ACOTF

Climate of Australia is the new Australian collaboration. Please help to improve it in any way you can. --Scott Davis Talk 10:56, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Union Stock Yards GA

Flag of Chicago
Wikipedia:WikiProject Chicago/Chicago Collaboration of the Week
 Flag of Chicago
List of Chicago Landmarks update is the current Chicago COTW
You were a contributing editor to Union Stock Yards during its tenure as CHICOTW. It has successfully achieved Good article status thanks in part to your efforts. See its GA review and help us raise it towards the featured article classification level. Recall that during its tenure as CHICOTW we achieved this Improvement. See our CHICOTW Improvement History. Note our good articles.
Flag of Chicago
Good Article
 Flag of Chicago

TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 21:42, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

DYK

Updated DYK query On 29 April 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article a feather in your cap, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Carabinieri 23:26, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikibreak

Hi Steve, I am going on a Wikibreak for a week or two because of my moving and ISP change effective of tomorrow. Thanks Harrison-HB4026 04:59, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Thanks for informing me Harrison - hope all goes well with the move. Cheers--VS talk 05:04, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Sure. Thanks Harrison-HB4026 05:06, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Wagga Wagga

Hi Steve, my thoughts on the Wagga Wagga article are at Talk:Wagga Wagga, New South Wales. What do you think? --Mattinbgn/ talk 11:58, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, it is starting to look like a half decent article now. I think the headings inside the media section can be removed now. Good to see you have the 5 O'Clock wave section trimmed down a bit too and made a start on referencing the history section. - Mattinbgn/ talk 11:10, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Go the mighty lions! From an old Fitzroy fan. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 08:26, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
I hope you enjoyed the game on Saturday, it must have been a great game to watch even if the Blues lost. I have taken some time to pause on the Wagga Wagga article at the moment. I have some thoughts going forward and will add them to the talk page shortly. The one thing that would be handy is a copy of that History of Wagga by S. Morris. I am in Wagga for work on Wednesday and will see if I can pick one up somewhere. Cheers, Mattinbgn/ talk 22:23, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Game was brilliant (even despite the ending) with 35 goals kicked. Worth the trip. Good call on Wagga, other than cosmetic changes (if any) I will wait for your thoughts. I will also try to pick up Sherry's book if possible. Regards --VS talk 22:28, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Good morning to you, VS. I think the templated refs are better to use as then style of referencing is consistent throughout the article. They can be compressed up after entry so it looks a little clearer when editing, and if I get time this morning I will do just that. Off to Wagga Wagga today for a conference/training, on WorkChoices no less, and if I have time and my fellow conference attendees from here are willing to wait while I do so, I will grab a copy today. Cheers, Mattinbgn/ talk 22:04, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. I will use same system (but already compressed version). - Happy travelling. Oh BTW many copies of the book available at City Library - walk in the door and go all the way to the far end of the shelves - literally the last one on the back wall and you will find them in a snap.--VS talk 22:15, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Got the book during the lunch break today, it was exactly where you said it would be which saved me a bit of time so thanks for that. I will try and do a bit of history work on Thurs and Fri, unfortunately real life will intrude tonight. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 07:43, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Cats

Hi I have been slowly trawling the australia project (and others) and its marvelous zoo of categories - and tonight I found - Category talk:Australian Egyptologists - and I sort of did a double take. I am wondering to myself after the unknown number of cats that I have tagged for a range of projects - um - is that what I was meant to be doing? I mean no one has ventured to question my tagging (maybe no one is watching) but for any category I usually do WP Australia class=NA - and now I find list? I must say it makes one feel uneasy after the numbers that I have done to think there might another way of looking at a category tag - but I would hesitate on the side of hysteria - or to go ape and take my frustration out on fellow wa prject talk and gmail that maybe the great projct to tag all oz cats was using the wrong item? I hope you are wrong for my sake :) I would really appreciate a good humoured response on this - I am bald and grey anyway - it just feels all a bit whiter at the moment. I would suggest that you try WP Australia class=NA for category discussion pages. Or perhaps any clues from any samples of other projects where alternative devices such as list - is actually used - and maybe we need to keep talking... sigh SatuSuro 13:29, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Ahmm - I'm trying to think this one through. Firstly you are correct and what scant hairs remain are safe for now). Two possibilities - I was up late and someone spiked my drink/s or (actually this is more likely to be the truth) assessment was a glitch in using script from Outriggr in the first few trials that got past me - as I was trying the script out to see how we could get rid of that damn big list of unaccessed articles. However that list category has since been fixed and thank you for trawling. Stay Sane!!!--VS talk 13:42, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Re Stay Sane!!! (in spike milligan voice) - never! Thanks for the response - but I am thinking that there might be the very rare occasions where a category is indeed most honourably full of lists - and that would be in that case of no particcular worry and indeed ok. Also some projects (i think I see glimmers of this when I creep into the back door of the singapore project) seem to have lists as NA items - I have not done that for the tagging here in oz or over in the indonesia project but i have seen things about that somewhere) hey the potential dog jokes are accumulating as I wander the discussion pages of some very odd categories (thinking of spiking drinks - there is indeed a drinking category that I might let out for walkies sometime - it might need a shot or be shot I am not sure which) - my late father was a vet and I have a pekinese skeleton in the next room maybe it needs to get photod or my user page hehehh cough um - thanks again cheers and until we meet again in the fascinating terrain of the dog and cats :| SatuSuro 13:52, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Thought process? getoff it - its cat tagging - another dimension of wandering through the collective insanity of australian editors for however many years this project has been going- nah - not a single thought i suspect :| SatuSuro 13:57, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
There are some days ones that need to be hallowed as the epitome of something uniquely australian, crazy and well, unique. Tonights is Category:Huts in Australia, bless their draughts, spiders and mud floors - cheers SatuSuro 14:02, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Wagga map

Hi Steve, the only one I could find was the one already on Wynyard - I've zoomed it in to this. Doesnt have much detail so might not be usable. I'll let you know if I come across anything better. --Astrokey44 22:28, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Thanks Astrokey - this one might still be useful but if you find any other/s that would be brill.--VS talk 22:34, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

AIV report

Any more trouble? Just one edit from that IP means it's going to get taken of AIV soon. Thanks for your recent support, BTW, much appreciated. --Steve (Stephen) talk 05:30, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

  • My pleasure on the support Steve. Ahmm this editor was part of a big kerfuffle some time ago under the tag Banned Gundagai Editor and has a reverted and banned on sight tag - you may need to look through some archives at user:Golden Wattle and /or user:Longhair if that helps?--VS talk 05:37, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the extra info, blocked just like the last one. --Steve (Stephen) talk 05:53, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Excellent job - thank you. Cheers with the new job.--VS talk 05:59, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

TeckWiz's RFA

Hey VirtualSteve. Thanks for commenting on my unsuccessful RFA last month under my old name, TeckWiz. I'm now known simply as User:R. I've been very busy lately which is why you're getting now. I don't know why some people don't like when candidates respond to opposes. Candidates have the right to challenge votes they think are wrong, and they have the right for an explanation to a basic comment like "not ready". I hope to keep helping and improving Wikipedia alongside you. --TeckWiz is now R ParlateContribs@(Let's go Yankees!) 16:33, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Hi Teckwiz - thank you for your comment on my talk page. I can understand why you are only now getting to people - although I personally did not expect a response at all. However regarding that comment can I reiterate please? Perhaps I did not make myself clear at the time of my oppose vote ... I have no problem at all with candidates responding to oppose !votes - in fact I do not think many !voters do - my !vote noted that your return comments (meaning the actual responses you had already given) showed an argumentative and less than mature approach that did not make me feel confident of you gaining adminship at that time. However I think you are doing a great job on Wiki and whilst I know there are people in your corner that want to see the youngest ever admin I would politely suggest to them that it shouldn't be a race to gain a record. Keep editing and thank you again for your comments.--VS talk 22:14, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Abigail Breslin

The category "child actor", at the bottom of the article, in itself is enough. We clearly know she's a child because of her age. Her occupation is to be an actress; that will not change regardless if she's 10 or 30. It is best to leave it as "actress" because it will remain consistent for the rest of her acting career. The child actor category is plenty enough. Fighting for Justice 01:27, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Okay well firstly actress is rather defunct - you'll note that it directs to actor. Secondly whilst I can see your point that she will get older until she does she remains a child actor like so many other child actors. Then later she is referred to as the "former child actor" (have a look at other pages in that category where people way past their childhood are so referred). There is nothing derogatory in using this description. I also note that you are a relatively new editor with a couple of blocks - my point being that you may not be aware of WP:3RR so I ask that you please leave the page alone. Cheers!--VS talk 01:32, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not a new user and I am well aware of the WP:3RR rule. I'm fully aware that calling her a child actress is not derogatory. I simply say it is unnecessary and it is. I've encountered plenty of articles on young females, under the age of 18, and are not called child actresses at the top of the article. They simply have actress, I was trying to be consistent. Them having the category child actor is appropriate enough. I don't understand why you insist on pushing for child to be in the opening sentence. Call their job what it is ACTING. Their age alone will tell people they are children. I will have to change it a full 24 hours from now. Fighting for Justice 03:49, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Okay Fighting for Justice - I see that using the gender specific term actress is important to you at this time (funny your user name gives the impression that would not be the case). Anyway I have adjusted the article to compromise to your current needs. PS I said you were a relatively new editor not a new user and with respect I suggest that someone who started in September last year is relatively new - and I probably picked up some inexperience given your recent blocks. I apologise if being called a relatively new editor offended you.--VS talk 06:02, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

North Queensland Stub notice

Hi VS, I've created a new Stub Notice at Template:North Queensland-stub however it automatically puts the page into Category:Stub-Class Townsville articles which is fine except it then doubles up in that Cat putting both the article and the article's talk page into the cat, would you have any idea how to address this issue? Thanks, WikiTownsvillian 04:26, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Hi Alec I have tried a couple of things but I do not currently see why it is doing that or how to fix it. Sorry! --VS talk 06:32, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi Steve - the stub is now at {{NorthQueensland-stub}}, as per stub template naming guidelines. I've moved all the articles that use it to the new name. Grutness...wha? 07:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

'spam'

re links to takvers' site. it would be helpful if you could asses individual links on their merits, rather that assuming they are all spam. this is what i mean by 'no reason given': you seem to be indiscriminately assuming the links are spam, whearas at least the ones i've seen are obviously related to the article. it would be helpfull if you could think about this before removing them. thx, ben  ⇒ bsnowball  05:56, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Ben your comments are somewhat churlish. Takvers had upwards of 75 links within wiki to his site. As I informed you this fact was discussed by me with another admin and I went through and set up discussion points for about 70% of those (not all of them) so please assume good faith that I did do some checking. Now if you read the Spam guideline very, very carefully you will see that I did exactly what was suggested and also discussed the links with Takver who took my suggestions sincerely (although I notice his adjusted view and comments above on your talk page) - without adding the ho hum comment that you put up on your edit (even though you have admitted on Takvers user page that you had a direct bias towards that link). My job was to set up those discussion points not to assess the worth of each link - your job in this case is to assess the worth and indicate its value at the discussion point (as you have) and then return it. (Nothing is lost and everything is gained by this process). Your job and indeed Takvers is not to be defensive, exasperated or as I say above churlish. Both of us (and Tirin/Takver too)have thejob to write a credible encyclopedia and if conflict of interest is even slightly possible then that task is diminished.--VS talk 06:16, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
    • PS For example whilst you write in your edit summary on Thalia (poet) rv, can't see how cited guideline applies this dif will show you that the SPAM link was in the body of the article not at the end where you have now legitimately put it. This is similar at Pi O where you adjusted this dif to a corrected version as per SPAM guideline despite your comment in the edit summary not spam (guideline linked doesn't apply) & defsort & WP:PDATA. I think with respect that this puts us on the same page? - well I hope so because you are a very good editor - whom I respect and hope that you will see the points in my reasoning?--VS talk 06:26, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

The Daily Advertiser

Updated DYK query On 9 May 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article The Daily Advertiser, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--howcheng {chat} 00:28, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

CHICOTW

I realize that there was no voting last week. However, please accept this notice

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Chicago Collaboration of the Week
 Flag of Chicago
Last week you helped edit the Chicago COTW, but did not vote. Thank you for your help! Your input in future selections would also be appreciated. This week Chicago Landmark stubification has been chosen. Please help improve it towards the quality level of a Wikipedia featured article. See the To Do List to suggest a change or to see an open tasks list. See past CHICOTWs. Note our good articles.
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Wikipedia:WikiProject Chicago
 Flag of Chicago

TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 06:13, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Summary of Wagga Wagga history section

Hi Steve, I was just about to start the summary, good work so far. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 09:05, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Cheers - I will stop for a bit so that your adjustments will give us a couple of different views. I have tried to look at the content of the same section for Canberra for guidance.--VS talk 09:07, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Pile bridge

Updated DYK query On 10 May 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Pile bridge, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--howcheng {chat} 06:14, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Im Back

Hi Steve, Im back. Harrison-HB4026 09:41, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Hi. It is nice to be settled, and editing on Wikipedia. How are you, and has anything happened during my absense Harrison-HB4026 09:57, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Well more of the same Harrison. Was lucky enough to load up a couple of DYKs and made a few edits here and there.--VS talk 10:54, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Commons Photos for Tarcutta

Hi Steve, I got around to loading the photos from Tarcutta up to Commons - I used the hi res originals. The photo of the truck drivers memorial I used the same file name. The photo of the Slim Dusty plaque I used a different more descriptive filename. Have changed the pages that link to these photos. Can you delete the origiinal photos uploaded to wikipedia: Image:Tarcutta truckie memorial.jpg, Image:Slim dusty.jpg. I think once the Memorial photo is deleted from Wikipedia, the links should pick up the version on commons --Takver 15:50, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Nice photo of you and Jimbo et al (you look very intense about something he is saying). Thanks for moving Tarcutta images to commons and categorising. I have tagged both of those images for you with the appropriate speedy delete and the image admins will delete soon.--VS talk 22:02, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Chicago Landmark Stubification

I noticed that you have edited Chicago Landmark this week. This week, we are focussing on stubifying the numerous redlinks with a goal of getting over half the redlinks stubified (we began with about 25%). This will improve our chance of getting it approved as a featured list candidate. When reviewing this week's new stub contributing editors your name was absent. You may want to choose a redlink or two from Chicago Landmark and create a stub before this week's project ends so that you can be a part of our drive for featured list status. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 16:10, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Wagga Wagga GA review

I'll look it over tomorrow after my final, and leave the comments on the talk page. --Nehrams2020 07:49, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Lovely - thank you.--VS talk 08:31, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
    • I would like to rewrite the lead in a format similar to Riverina, i.e. A summary of the article by section but I am away this weekend and won't be able to start until Monday. As there is likely to be a delay in getting it assessed it may be worth getting it listed at WP:GAC now and we can work on the lead as we go. Great work getting to those points so quickly. Cheers, Mattinbgn/ talk 07:06, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
      • Well thank you for the compliment - you get and deserve one from me also. I agree with your thoughts on lodging it now at WP:GAC - I'll do so now if you have no objections? I will be interested in seeing your new lead. Hope you have a good weekend away then - I assume for pleasure and not work?

PS I'd be very happy to collaborate on any other article with you - must be your turn to nominate one - what do you suggest?--VS talk 07:12, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

    • Good to see it listed. Down to see Mum this weekend, being Mothers Day and all. Any of the remaining "Top" level articles in WP:RIVERINA would be worth doing. Perhaps Albury next? -- Mattinbgn/ talk 07:33, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
      • Yep fair enough - my mum is gone now. I hope you enjoy your visit - safe travelling. Albury it is then! Cheers!--VS talk 07:36, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Well listing now at number 13 ... I really have to slip back into that retirement I am not having. My suggestion for article improvement would be something like the Murrumbidgee Irrigation Area or finish Irrigation in Australia to good article standard - the latter shouldn't need much, the former so much it is not funny.
I have removed the don't write to me here notice on the talk page - such an injunction is hardly fair if I go on fiddling but I really should stop! It takes little to gues I lack discipline - repeat 300 times do not get involved with AfDs. Regards --Golden Wattle talk 00:44, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Discipline may involve limiting yourself to no more than 100 edits a month (you've made 50 and 80 over the last 2 months) - and then shutting off the computer if you reach that? (Just a cheeky suggestion). Matt and I thought we would tackle the Riverina Top importance articles first (Albury started and Griffith to come) but then I think Irrigation in Australia is a good nom. (I note that it wasn't even linked to Riverina Project as yet - but that is now fixed). Finally and seriously - please stay around as much as you can - we need your positive interjection and edits.--VS talk 01:26, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Murrumbidgee Irrigation Area is a great idea but it will be a lot of work. The MIA article could almost be of Top importance to WikiProject Riverina as well. Irrigation in Australia was the beneficiary of an WP:ACOTF which helped it a lot, and could be raised to GA status reasonably quickly. The Albury article is in reasonable shape and should not take much time to bring up to GA standard as well and I have made a (small) start in that direction. I guess the other question to ask is should we be using the project talk page for this discussion? ;-)-- Mattinbgn/ talk 01:52, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

  • project page is much better place once you have worked out you are indeed having a conversation :-) --Golden Wattle talk 02:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Agreed folks and noticed transferred thoughts - Cheers! --VS talk 02:29, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Kent GA review

On behalf of the editors of the Kent article, I would like to thank you for taking the time to review the article and for your very useful comments. We will begin working on them right away. Epbr123 23:18, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

    • Absolutely my pleasure Epbr123. Thank you for your kindness. Best wishes --VS talk 23:26, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Very good job for your first review, hopefully we continue to see you around in assisting with the backlog. --Nehrams2020 23:19, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Thank you for your kind comment Nehrams - (I have already nominated My Opposition (the Friedrich Kellner diary) as my next review). You can consider me part of the furniture  :-) --VS talk 23:24, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
      • Do you think you could have another look at the article at some time? We feel most of your comments how now been addressed. Epbr123 02:44, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your message. Well done on attacking the suggestions with such gusto. I did not expect your team to be able to complete the adjustments quite as quickly as you did. I note that you have put it back up for assessment and no doubt it will be assessed reasonably quickly - but I probably have to leave it for another pair of eyes at this stage as I have a number of GA assessments on the run at the moment. If it hasn't been assessed within a week or so I will have time to look at it again.--VS talk 03:01, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Thankyou

(I have written this message to all of you, because this it the only way I could think of doing it properly)

Hello, I would like sincerely thank you all dearly for the countless assistance you gave me while I established myself on Wikipedia. I believe that all of the help that you (VirtualSteve, Sarah and SGGH) gave me intertwined perfectly and that you are all ambassadors for Wikipedia. I now feel that I am confident now that I can spread my wings without major help, and I would like to help others someday as you helped me (like Chicken7 for example).

Thankyou all. Harrison-HB4026 10:10, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Just received your message Harrison - I think I probably speak for my two friends above to also add that it is always a pleasure to welcome someone (because we welcome hundreds every year) and then find that they are one of the few who are committed to becoming good - then great - then excellent editors. Now get back to work and edit Image:SoleteRayosÑajo.gif Cheers--VS talk 22:52, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Assessing

Hi, would you mind assessing Karmichael Hunt, I have put time into it. (If you remember me I'm the one you assessed Brisbane Broncos. It would be much appreciated. SpecialWindler 10:17, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Hi SpecialWindler - thank you for your message. GA nominations are currently (normally) taking some time to be processed (around a month) because of the lack of experienced GA reviewers. So normally I would not be able to assess Karmichael Hunt for some time. However I had a quick look at it after your request and noted that it met one of the quick fail categories - based on having a clean-up tag. This means it must automatically fail (providing the tag is legitimate). I noted the tag has been up there for some edits and in fact that the article does need a careful proof-read (because it is definitely not ready for GA classification at this stage). Can I suggest that you spell and grammar check the whole article as your first step to improving the article as that will at least remove the clean-up tag. If I can help further please let me know.--VS talk 22:40, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

My Opposition the Friedrich Kellner diary

Thank you for many suggestions about the diary article. One of the other editors and I have been working to implement the changes you suggested. All of the sentences that appeared to border on subjectivity have been deleted, and many links have been added to make the information more verifiable. This is a particularly difficult situation because the diary is not yet published, but copies of the diary are available at the George Bush Presidential Library and also at the Justus Liebig University of Giessen. This university, which has the Kellner Project, is working hard to bring the diary into print by next year. The Canadian documentary about the diary should be on our television screens sometime this year, and that might help to boost the university in Germany to hurry up with the publication. As you know by my posts, I am the grandson of Friedrich Kellner, and the English translator of the diary. I am quite aware of the conflict that exists in my being so involved with this article (self-promotion and vanity questions), so I do wish to help in any way to make this a thoroughly objective article. Please do tell me what else I might do to achieve this. By the way, I have also this evening shortened the name of the article to "My Opposition." Thank you. Scott Rskellner 02:54, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Thank you for your message. I have passed this article according to the GA criteria. Adjustments to the 11 items listed for review are well completed. To help the article keep its GA status, please make sure that all new information added to the article is accurate and properly cited. Altogether, the article reads well. Keep up the good work!--VS talk 04:37, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I am grateful for your quick action. Thank you very much for your help in improving the article and for increasing its status on Wikipedia. ScottRskellner 04:52, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

  • It has been my pleasure - as I say a good read - keep up the good work. You have more than enough skills to write on other articles outside of your Kellner interest. Cheers.--VS talk 04:54, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

CHICOTW

Flag of Chicago
Chicago Collaboration of the Week
 Flag of Chicago
Last week you helped edit the Chicago COTW, but did not vote. Thank you for your help! Your input in future selections would also be appreciated. This week Magnificent Mile has been chosen. Please help improve it towards the quality level of a Wikipedia featured article. See the To Do List to suggest a change or to see an open tasks list. See past CHICOTWs. Note our good articles.
Flag of Chicago
Wikipedia:WikiProject Chicago
 Flag of Chicago

TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 00:53, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Haha :)

Nice haiku, Steve! Appreciate it :) It's... very different. Classy work ;) Take care mate, – Rianaऋ 11:27, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

  • My pleasure... --VS talk 11:28, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Chicago Landmark

I am reverting your changes for the reasons stated on the talk page. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 16:24, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

    • The intention was always to make this a WP:FL. The text may have trouble at WP:GA. As far as WP:FLC the format is good with sidebar picks and brief intro. WP:FA is a whole other animal. I am inquiring whether the listy article would have a chance at WP:GAC's talk page. If not, it will go straight to WP:FLC where except for preponderent redlinks it probably has a good shot. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 18:14, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
      • Nothing is contentious with me Tony - blank what you need to. However whether you/we are going to FA or FL is not the issue - am I missing the main point or are you? - Tell me how do you/we get past the massive problem of breach of MOS policy with page size if you present this page at WP:FLC?--VS talk 18:24, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
        • I think we should submit it as is for WP:FLC after an appropriate stability check pause. The length is due to the heavy citation, which is a strength of this highly redlinked article. It is in a sense necessary to offset the redlink preponderence. There are special cases where length is forgivable. This is one IMO. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 18:31, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough - I will post it as a question at Eligibility. I close by noting that the featured List of United States cities by population - by definition a larger list with 255 entries than Chicago Landmark is only 38kbs ... I wish us both good luck given I would like my name added to its featured status if/when it gets there.--VS talk 18:43, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes heavy citation - or perhaps more pointedly the method of citation that is required for this particular article/list - is perhaps part of the problem (as are images). Boy Scouts is an article not a list but still only 30kbs - Charles Darwin is the longest Featured anything I know of at 99kbs (just under MOS policy) and has 151 citations - but it loads quite quickly because there are not many images. Chicago Landmarks does not sound like a list at this stage (hence my comments regarding FA) - but a name change can fix that ... I guess we will see.--VS talk 19:07, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I had gone back to bed after my last message and just got yours now. Thanks for confirming my thoughts on splitting. The other way may be to remove all images to a specialised commons gallery?

As for Magic Mile - I wouldn't worry about it too much - it probably has nothing to do with the topic and more to do with people's real lifes. Perhaps run it for a second week?--VS talk 23:18, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Magnificent Mile

Why is nobody editing. I thought this would be an interesting topic to many Chicagoans. Any comment? TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:58, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Edit Chicago Landmark for space

I removed some unnecessary characters. I can do more if necessary like abreviate Avenue and Street etc. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 14:41, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi, Steve. Thanks for keeping an eye out. I guess this is what I get for spending too much time at AfD. :-) Cheers, Mattinbgn/ talk 10:50, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Hey you know - ownership, even of the mediocre, is often something worth fighting over for some. Just part of the beauty of the wiki-system of anarchy.--VS talk 10:55, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I have also been meaning to say that I have been watching your work at WP:GAC. Great stuff! Not sure if this is out of place or not but have you thought about an RfA? I would be happy to support any nom. Mattinbgn/ talk 11:09, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Mate - it's funny you should say that. I have actually been thinking the same for you. I did talk to some others a while ago about it (mainly because I wanted to be around to help out) and then decided to just wait for a while. Recently I have been wondering about it again (and you going for it also) mainly because the local admins seem to be either inundated or (justifiably) taking breaks from the rigour and they might be able to use a couple of new soldiers. What are your thoughts on entering the fray? BTW thanks for the comments on GAC - I actually enjoy doing theme even though they are a lot of work if you give good commentary to those nominating.--VS talk 11:15, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
    • I don't want to be too self-deprecating but I doubt I would pass at present and I am not so sure that I want to take on an admin role at the moment anyway. I see my involvement in AfD, my little chore to keep the place running, as my payback to the Wikipedia community for allowing me to do the fun part, collaborating in writing articles such as Riverina and Wagga Wagga, New South Wales. I am not sure I want to take on more of that sort of role at the moment, which is what becoming an admin would require. Also, I have only dipped my toe into the waters with vandal fighting and the like and would like to spend more time getting confident with Wikipedia policies before putting my hand up. I think however, on the brief looks I have had at WP:RfA discussions, that you would be a real shot at succeeding with a request and working well with the tools if given them, having spent some time with a variety of Wikipedia tasks in addition to editing. Perhaps it is worth asking some of the local admins for their thoughts, although I am not sure if that would be considered canvassing. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 11:51, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Chicago Landmark Stubification

I am writing you because you either (1) edited Chicago Landmark 5 weeks ago when it was the WP:CHICOTW (2) edited it or created a stub last week when we had the stubification drive for it or (3) you nominated an article to be the CHICOTW in the last few days.

I have finally had a chance to take a tally on last week’s stubification effort. Based on my manual count we now have 109 bluelinks on a total of 241 landmarks. Preliminary indications were that for our article to be successful at WP:FLC we would need to eventually rename it (something like List of Chicago Landmarks) and get the majority of the landmarks linked. Based on my cursory count we need to write 12 more articles to get to a majority. It would be great if you might be able to assist by creating a couple stubs to assist in this effort. Here are some of the stubs that were created during last week’s efforts: Black Metropolis-Bronzeville District, Historic Michigan Boulevard District, Arthur H. Compton House & One North LaSalle. Among the articles still redlinked are 2 buildings on this week’s CHICOTW, Magnificent Mile (Perkins, Fellows & Hamilton Office and Studio, Woman's Athletic Club). Recall that each redlink on Chicago Landmark has a footnote to a reference that gives you enough info to create a stub. If you create a new stub please add it to Wikipedia:WikiProject_Chicago#Newly_Created_Chicago_Related_Pages so that we can keep track of the progress. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 15:48, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Whitstable GA review

Hi. I think the issues you raised have now been fixed. Many thanks. Epbr123 03:10, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Congratulations to all editors who assisted in this article. It is well presented and easily passes the WP:GAC. I note for the record all of the editors which provided 5 or more edits to this article as follows (with the numbers after user names indicating their total edits at time of final GA assessment:user:Epbr123 (141), user:Nshimbi (11), user:Cunningham (10), user:Faedra (8), user:84.66.237.99 (6),user:Whitstable (5), user:MRSC (5).

Editors may wish to cut the following template {{User Good Articles|[[Whitstable]] assessed as one of the}} and paste to their user page or other suitable location - which will provide the following template:

This user has significantly contributed to Whitstable assessed as one of the Good Articles on Wikipedia.



Well done!--VS talk 04:43, 19 May 2007 (UTC)