User talk:Viriditas/Archive 2

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
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Contents

Wikipedia:Forum for Encyclopedic Standards

I have drafted a proposal for a new voluntary association on Wikipedia (joining groups like the Wikipedia:The Business and Economics Forum and the Wikipedia:Harmonious editing club) to promote discussion of a sort of system of expert review on Wiki. Please take a look and add your ideas. 172 02:33, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

  • Wonderful idea! I have joined. I will let some other know. Thank you. IZAK 03:13, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Alberuni and HistoryBuffEr are busy again

HistoryBuffEr is busy inserting his new POV articles into Yasser Arafat and Sabra and Shatila Massacre, while Alberuni is busy POVing NGO Monitor and censoring Israel Shahak. Jayjg 03:35, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

HistoryBuffEr's busy POVing again, he's started on Yasser Arafat; you might want to keep an eye out. Jayjg 04:54, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Edits are not reverts. Thank you for your concern. --Alberuni 05:31, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Re: Luciferean Satanism

Good greetings, Viriditas. The reason I included Luciferean Satanism as a subset of Abrahamic mythology is that it doesn't really quite fit anywhere else. While I agree full heartedly that it is most accurately described as a subset of Christian and Gnostic mythology (with very strong ties or similarities to Zoroastrianism and Manicheism), it isn't quite either of those. Christianity in particular implies the worship of Christ, which would tend to exclude Luciferean Satanism. The only thing I think can be said for sure is that Luciferean Satanism belongs somewhere within the framework of Abrahamic mythology, so I put it there for lack of a better place, since it isn't completely a subset of any of the "big three" (though its concept of Satan is clearly biased toward the Christian version). --Corvun 06:53, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Sockpuppets

The creation of sockpuppets to insert HistoryBuffEr's version of Yasser Arafat is an interesting development, don't you think? Meanwhile, Alberuni is busy POVing on several fronts (including Sabra and Shatila massacre), you might want to look at his contribution list to get the full picture. Jayjg 00:25, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Equally interesting is the number of anonymous IPs who seem to have joined the other side of this, and several other, revert wars—while completely ignoring the rest of the 'pedia. But neither of you know anything about that, of course. —No-One Jones (m) 08:52, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I'm not going to speak for Viriditas, but I for one strongly resent your implication here. I've never edited using a sockpuppet, and (against my better instincts) I've even revealed my IP right here on Wikipedia, after similarly baseless accusations from Xed, which is the only IP (that I know of) that I've edited under, and that only when accidentally logged out by Wikipedia. You have descended to the level of Xed. Jayjg 14:28, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Just who are all these anonymous sockpuppets that seem to follow Jayjg et al around, and always agree with the pro-Israel version? It's a mystery. - Xed 15:37, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Point proved. Jayjg 20:17, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Mmmhm, most interesting. I'm sure it's just some entirely random group of pro-Israel POV warriors! BLANKFAZE | (что??) 18:21, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Why don't you go vandalize Dore Gold again, or revert it 5 times in one day without discussion? That's what you're best at. Jayjg 20:17, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I am very sorry for the implication. I knew Jayjg's IP address and should have thought to check it before making the insinuation above; now that I have checked it, I see it does not come from the same ISP, or even the same continent, as the anon I had in mind (200.39.200.132) when I wrote the above. My sincerest apologies. —No-One Jones (m) 18:14, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thank you Mirv, I appreciate that. Jayjg 20:17, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I don't know if you are aware of it, but there is a piece of commercial software that allows you to control other machines (which have been set up) called "remote desktop" and "PcAnywhere", over the internet. Therefore, a user could dial in to the remote computer (which could be around the world), and then log in as a sock puppet, producing an apparantly totally different IP address. So, having an IP in a different geographic location is absolutely no indicator of innocence of sock-puppeting. CheeseDreams 00:09, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Only if the other computer had remote control software running, and allowed other people to login. Perhaps one could advertise in foreign countries asking if people there would install the software to allow their computers to be taken over. Of course, a person could also simply fly to a foreign country in order to use a computer there, and then fly back home in order to fool Wikipedia. Your scenario is far-fetched, but thanks for assuming good faith. Jayjg 23:14, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Yasser Arafat

Thank you for your comment Viriditas. You're the one who's such a hard worker, you should get a salary for this : ) MPerel 08:47, Nov 21, 2004 (UTC)

Issue from Talk:Jihad

Look, I hope you don't think I was merely attacking Pename with my list of questions. Even before he came along I was asking for clarification of the article (check the edit history), and for further proof of my methodology please see Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict#Clarifications. I hope this clears up any misconception that this was a directed attack and I was only raising objections to spite the user. I can assure you that nothing could be further from the truth. Also, in case I've come across as a defender of Islam, I can also assure you that again nothing could be further from the truth. I am a Christian, purely and simply, and will never believe anything else.

I was trying to read this article to gain some understanding of Jihad and it's causes. A sustained POV attack did not help me any. - Ta bu shi da yu 06:12, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Excuse me, but I was not attacking him. I was asking questions! sheesh. Since when was that classed as "biting newbies"? I suggest you review your own comments towards myself more carefully. After all, you're the one who told me I was being unfairly critical of the article by asking all the questions on the talk page. I'm extremely annoyed that you have implied as such, and would kindly ask you to start reading Wikipedia yourself by reading assume good faith. - Ta bu shi da yu 07:39, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I filed an RFC following due process. What did you want me to do? Engage in a revert war?! I told him he was acting POV. Though it's true I said he had an act to grind... which I'll certainly say was probably attacking him. Shouldn't have done that. The only reason I got involved with editing this story is because I'd started to ask some questions on the story to ask for clarification (in fact before he started writing from a non-neutral point of view), and was actually getting some decent answers. Then he started attacking me for asking those questions, he refused to take the page to talk and discuss changes, and then you appeared on the scene and basically accused me of having a go at him for asking the questions! That's what I'm pissed at. I realise I could have handled things somewhat better, but my patience was sorely tried. I was trying to get some consensus on the article and he refused to discuss his changes. Your comment that I was asking nothing by objections (where the definition is now "The fallacy of nothing but objections, also known as barrage of objections, is a logical fallacy where irrelevant and sometimes frivolous objections are made to divert the attention away from the topic that is being discussed") is extremely offensive to me as that was never my intention!!! In fact, I even noted in quite a few places (if you care to actually read the talk page) that some of the material was OK. Perhaps you would care to tell me where my objections were "frivolous" and created to "divert the attention away from the topic that is being discussed"? Because that in itself is getting pretty close to a personal attack. - Ta bu shi da yu 08:14, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

OK, I take on board many of your points. However, I wish to address you on your points: "However, you compounded those requests with further objections by posting leading questions like "Isn't this just your POV and your interpretation of events" and "are you misrepresenting a people group here"" The first question might seem leading, but take a look at what he wrote and you'll see why I asked this (albeit in a leading way). I fail to see how my question about whether he was misrepresenting a people group could be seen as terribly offensive, because he was making sweeping statements. Whether he was a newbie on this point or not really has nothing to do with anything on this point: he was deliberately making sweeping statements, and causing major problems in the article. You may see this differently, but my question was not an attack, though I suppose it could have been seen as one by one who is extremely (and rightly) hype-defensive.
Now I would like to ask you to answer some of my questions: where were my irrelevant and/or frivilous questions in the section you commented on (I notice that you created the article after you wrote it — pardon me for having my nose put a little out of joint, but you don't accuse someone of something they don't understand by linking to a non-existent article, then create the article after you point it out).
Lastly, while we're about it, why don't you review some of the sources provided by Pename? Why don't you review the following section on the talk page.
Anyway, I gotta go eat. Talk later. - Ta bu shi da yu 09:07, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Viriditas, I just thought I would pipe in to support Ta bu shi da yu.
Let me say the following by way of disclaimer, let me say up front that I am a Muslim and sympathise with Islam. And also not I am not sympathetic to Islamists (which might make me the answer to the "who are liberal Muslims question").
But I am also a strong believer in the importance of strict NPOV policies for an encyclopedia to really live up to its name. See, for example, what I am trying to do at Template talk:Timeline of Islamist militancy.
Which is why I spend time on Wikipedia. And why I think it is a bit unfair to pick on someone like Ta bu shi da yu when they challenge when they try to get someone to tone down a point of view that is coming through in their work on Wikipedia.—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 10:25, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)

Just one last thing: the "sigh" on his talk page was because he already asked me the same question via email, and I replied and told him how to do this. Just saw your comment on this, thought I might (again) clarify. - Ta bu shi da yu 13:03, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Dr Zen

In reply to your question: He has harassed me on Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/LGagnon (where he has tried to sway the vote away from me through libel) and on Talk:Stephen King (where he further libelled me). I did not know him before he started doing so on those 2 pages. -- [[User:LGagnon|LGagnon]] 03:45, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)

My opinion of him is based on his edits in the Votes for deletion pages. He seems to vote delete solely for delete's sake. RickK 05:40, Nov 25, 2004 (UTC)

That's a bit silly. I explain on my user page what my philosophy is. I think it's well out of order to describe me as a troll for voting to keep articles you want rid of! But I think this is pretty much par for the course for RickK. Thanks for your comment on my talk page, V. It's good that we can disagree (fiercely) but hopefully walk away unscathed and not angry.Dr Zen 01:45, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

You one local guy?

I just noticed the photo and invite on your user page. Are you an island Wikipedian? Zora 06:08, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC) (I live Honolulu)

Thanks for quick reply. I guess you're up late too. You can look at my user page to see who I am. I live in a condo in Makiki with four cats (and an outside cat, a feral, whom I'm feeding and trying to tame). Zora 09:37, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Apology

It was not in my mind to give you personal attacks, but merely to contradict you because I thought you were wrong. If I did anything that you perceived as a personal attack, then I am sorry. I do not want to be your adversary. Besides, it appears that you are from Hawai‘i too. I still don't agree with your position on East Maui Volcano, but as long as the name still has mention in the article, I don't think it's anything that worth arguing over. Peace? Friends? Aloha? :) - Gilgamesh 01:35, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Oompa Loompas

Good point on the need for an external link. I went in and added one. Thanks for the compliments on my editing. As for an image, that could be hard to find. Since (obviously) Charlie hasn't passed into the public domain yet, we can't use images straight out of the book, unless we want to pull fair use. Likewise, "fanart" couldn't be used, because even though the art itself is by the artist who draws it, they themselves are breaking copyright by making the art (sounds crazy, I know). Unless Joseph Schindelman or one of the later artists has released his work into the public domain, with permission from the owners of the Charlie works' copyright, there is probably not any free images of an Oompa Loompa. - Vague | Rant 09:07, Nov 26, 2004 (UTC)

Feel free to fix Oompa Loompas in any way you see fit. - Vague | Rant 10:07, Nov 28, 2004 (UTC)

Al Dustur

Hi Viriditas, yes, Al Dustur is regarded as a reputable source. I believe it is Jordan's main newspaper and it's relied on by Western journalists stationed there. As for providing a reference, that will be harder because it was so long ago. If you mean can I find the date of the article, I will try, but if you mean an online reference, that may not be possible. Lots of websites refer to the article, but none in any detail. But I will look around for the best I can find, and will let you know. Slim 10:34, Nov 28, 2004 (UTC)

Protected areas

We don't have any to do lists over there, at least partly because we don't have many active members. I put together Wikipedia:WikiProject Protected Areas/Status a while ago as a sort of survey of the state of things. Lots to work on there. Rmhermen 13:51, Nov 30, 2004 (UTC)

I added infoboxes to Haleakala and Hawaii Volcanoes. I am not sure I made the best choices for nearest cities though. Rmhermen 22:04, Nov 30, 2004 (UTC)

RfC

Hello. HistoryBuffEr has filed an RfC against me. I thought I'd let you know, in case you have any interest in commenting. – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 19:22, Nov 30, 2004 (UTC)

Image Use

Hi Aloha,

Use the image by all means. I presume you mean this distribution map? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Steve_nova If you want me to rename it, I will. Just tell me what to do as I am not very familiar with this.Steve nova 23:04, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Merging the page history for Haleakala

Wow, that process was unintuitive! But I did it. Let me know if it looks funny to you. (Thanks for your support on my RfC, btw.) – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 14:05, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)

I'm taking the day off from unpleasant people. It's good to work on articles, and to be reminded that most Wikipedians are pleasant, knowlegeable, and friendly. I've been working mostly on flowers – I've found that can be soothing and recuperating after a rancorous couple of days. Anyway, cheers. – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 21:09, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)

Blocking of HistoryBuffEr

Greetings. HistoryBuffEr has violated the 3RR (again), and I have just blocked him. I left a detailed note on his talk page here explaining my action.

The last time I blocked him, he was very upset. I was mistaken in my time frame in that instance, thinking he had reverted four times in 24 hours when he had only reverted four times in 26 hours, and I had to back down and apologize. Still, he launched an invalid RfC against me, which was, in my opinion, an attempt to punish me. He then disendorsed many of the Arbitor candidates who endorsed my summary on the RfC, which seemed to me as a way of punishing them as well.

I am quite sure the blocking this time was appropriate – I dotted all my i's and crossed all my t's. But I suspect he will be no less upset. I'm asking you to keep an eye on the situation. If he acts in a vindictive way, I ask that you support me, if you feel this is deserved. – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 16:56, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

User:FamilyFord car4less

User:FamilyFord car4less is blocked for 24 hours. - Ta bu shi da yu 03:01, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

No worries :) Let me know if anything untoward happens. Ta bu shi da yu 08:00, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I know Ambi fairly well. She's very fair, and she probably didn't see that the edit was not only an edit but it was a revert also. I am reblocking HistoryBuffEr for another 13 hours (this will be less time that the original block, but I can't be bothered working out the exact minutes that he is blocked for). I have asked Ambi not to unblock him until she talks to me, so we can sort things out. - Ta bu shi da yu 08:20, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

AINA

good work on the disambiguation of AINA. however, the edit history of the AINA i created appears to be lost. can we recover it and attach it to AINA (ngo)? Kingturtle 17:54, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Fixed. --Viriditas 01:33, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Umm...I think either you are misunderstanding my contribution, or I am misunderstanding your question. The Urdu word for mirror is "aina" (pronounced aa-ee-nah) and is most probably taken from Farsi.—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 07:29, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)

I would call the language Persian, as that seems to be the term used to encompass both Farsi and Dari (Tajik is more politicized), and is the title of the Wikipedia article. But it's a matter of taste, to some degree. - Mustafaa 12:52, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

FamilyFord car4less and HistoryBuffEr

HistoryBuffEr has assured me that this is not his sockpuppet. This is good enough for me. I have noted as such on the users front page. Thought you should know. - Ta bu shi da yu 22:29, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

My comments stand. I agree we need access to IP addresses associated with editors to be able to check for sock puppets. However, until we have access to these, I can only assume good faith, even if he has previously used sock puppets. - Ta bu shi da yu 01:49, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Why don't you ask one of the developers to check? Slim 01:53, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)
I'll do that. But until then, I can only be fair to HistoryBuffEr. After all, what's to stop someone who dislikes him from creating an account and doing similar edits? If we accussed him of sockpuppetry (I can't beleive I just used that word!) then he'd be at an unfair advantage, wouldn't he? Let's be fair, even though he may have used sock puppet accounts in the past. That's all I'm asking for: fairness here. - Ta bu shi da yu 02:34, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
It might be. I don't know. I wouldn't like to guess. I'll assume good faith until we find out differently, but if you have definite evidence of sock puppet accounts please don't let me stop you from adding them to the evidence page. I hope you are more than very sure though! - Ta bu shi da yu 06:52, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

User:68.21.185.217

How odd. I'll watch him in case he leaves the sandbox. He's already been warned about removing the headers, but if he just plays in the sandbox I'm not sure much that can be done. Cool Hand Luke

Answer

Right on the first count, wrong on the second count. I didn't add it to my watch list, thank you for pointing out the question. The second point: I didn't think it was necessary. I figured you'd have put it on your watchlist as you made the article (it's what I do anyway). I thought the two were the same. Maybe I was wrong. - Ta bu shi da yu 10:47, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Couldn't speak for others, but I sure would! - Ta bu shi da yu 11:17, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Moving comments

That's fine. I think I've made my point now. - Ta bu shi da yu 12:04, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

No worries :) Ta bu shi da yu 12:15, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Arbitration case

Please follow the instructions at the top of the evidence page and provide diffs. Fred Bauder 12:12, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)

Arbitration evidence by date

Hi Viriditas, I modified my evidence and actually shortened it all into the one particular date of offense that I was reporting. See what you think. As far as adding more detail about the "link", I'll have to work on that later today or tomorrow. --MPerel 03:33, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)

Alberuni blocked for 24 hours.

That is all. - Ta bu shi da yu 12:12, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Article Licensing

Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 1000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

Option 1
I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:
{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}

OR

Option 2
I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions to any [[U.S. state]], county, or city article as described below:
{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" with "{{MultiLicensePD}}". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- Ram-Man (comment| talk)

Yasser Arafat locked

Yeah, it look suspicious. I've locked it for a small amount of time. - Ta bu shi da yu 06:35, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It's cool. I've unlocked it as the anon promised they wouldn't revert again. We'll see. Please keep an eye on it and let me know if I don't notice it's been reverted again. - Ta bu shi da yu 10:17, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Yasser Arafat locked again. Will more than likely block anon's but I want to try something first. - Ta bu shi da yu 12:32, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Oi! no more naughty thoughts Viriditas... the thought of a hybrid HBE+Albernui gives me pause! ;P Ta bu shi da yu 12:50, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Haabet is serious all right

He is NOT trolling. He just seems to be obsessed with the subject of corsets. Plus he insists on working on the English language Wikipedia, when he can't write grammatical or intelligible English. If he limited himself to the German Wikipedia he might sound more rational there. Zora 12:58, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

IP addresses and sock puppets

Could we shift this to WP:AN? things might get confusing otherwise :) Ta bu shi da yu 23:00, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

cheers :) Ta bu shi da yu 23:05, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)