Talk:Virtual reality

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[edit] Current

I dont this the The Lawnmower Man did misunderstood Cyberspace as it is written here. If you pay attention to the movie, you see that the VR Stimulations regain the long lost ability to cast magic, that is what the movie is all about. So The Lawnmower Man is using Magic Spells, not VR when in the real world!

I think it should be noted that while in "The Matrix", the information goes both ways (brain to computer, computer to brain) in Sony's proposed method, the information only goes from computer to brain, which makes the "ala de Matrix" label given to it somehow incorrect or misleading.

Hey, someone else can include some new stuff here? I thought that wikipedia would be open for contributions. It doesn't seem anymore - at least on computer related topics.

I want to add Eric Howlett, inventor of the LEEP systems technology and a pioneer in Virtual Reality, to the list of Notables and Pioneers here. Will try to get a page on him built soon also.

rpelman 13:31, 2 February 2007 (UTC)rperlman

Not a request for changes to specific text. If you have any questions, please contact me at my talk page. Ian Manka 04:53, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Impact?

Interesting. Thank you for your watchful eye! Does Michilo S. Cline merit inclusion in this entry? I don't know. -If we want to stick to the big names, he clearly does not merit inclusion. Although, due to a lack of big names in this area, it may be necessary to simply remove the section. -Even if we don't want to stick to the big names, does he have a sufficient reputation and is the material of sufficient merit? That is a bit tricky. If we are asking, is he qualified, the answer is, probably. He reportedly studied under Dr. Lueck (see the Distance Matters article on his blogsite), co-leader of the Silicon Valley Culures project and a serious heavy weight in the field; and VP Dr. Cooper. But, this of course, merely suggests that he may be qualified to have an opinion, not that his opinion has any merit. Does the material have sufficient merit? Maybe, haven't read the book. -But, does the material add to the Wikipedia entry on VR? If this is the criteria, and I have some reservations, it may make sense to leave the text as is. Or what if we changed, the phrase "perhaps most notably, Michilo S. Cline, blah blah blah" to "one author argues," or something along those lines? Of course, it would be necessary to give him credit for his ideas, but it could be footnoted or something. -ML

Check the changes between 22Nov and 30Nov made by IP #70.191.85.193. Did anyone verify that information? I've done some checking and see no authority associated with that entry. The added source, Mychilo S. Cline and the book that he is apparently self-publishing through the University Village Press (linked as a source at the bottom of the page and a domain that lists him as administrative contact... and on which his blog is maintained) have been subjected to what level of scrutiny to allow their inclusion? Who is Cline? Has anyone read this book?

I've been looking into IAVRT and his name has been linked to that possibly fictional organization. I don't know if any of this is real or fiction, but I don't see anyone else asking the questions and thought you guys might be interested.

I have removed the link to the reBank website (in the paragraph above). According to Wikipedia guidelines, "Links or references to off-site personal attacks against Wikipedians should be removed." I would also recommend, that due to questions of objectivity, neutrality, verifiablity, that the rest of this paragraph be removed. This is not the place for wild speculation.

-ML

[edit] Stanislaw Lem

If this author is going to be included under pioneers and notables, there needs to be some sort of justification. It needs to be more than the author having written stories featuring the technology or an environment with VR-like qualities. Many writers would fit that criteria. -- Dx 17:21, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Stanislaw Lem didn't just write few stories. He devoted a whole chapter in his Summa Technologiae (1963) to the problems resulting from creating virtual reality (which he called phantomatics). As for his s-f, "Skrzynie profesora Corcorana" in 1960s described professor, who constructed something like matrix. Szopen 12:39, 22 March 2007 (UTC) EDIT: actually, I can't find exact date for "Skrzynie profesora Corcorana". On internet the different dates for the publishing of this short story are: 1957, 58, 1960, and 1961.. Anyway he was definetely before "Simulacron 3" Szopen 13:04, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Term "virtual reality" used in a metaphorical sense?

216.213.209.137 16:42, 3 December 2007 (UTC) In Italy, after the media craze about VR of the mid-90s died out, many people (especially older, non-coMputer-savvy people) started using the term "virtual reality" in a metaphorical, i.e. non-computing related, sense. In Italy, the term is now mostly used to mean a lie you are forced to believe, an illusion you convince yourself about, a status of ignorance you have been forced into... Many Italians actually find it confusing when it is used in its primary sense of a computer-generated interactive environment. Is it the same in other countries?

Devil Master 23:03, 26 Sep 2005 (MET)

By hope spruill & dakota cogburn (her bf)

[edit] Proposed addition regarding games

The following section was added at the end, but seemed too light on facts and heavy on rumor to leave in. If others disagree, or more facts are added, maybe it can be put back in:

"Nintendo in fact has been studying virtual reality every since the Virtual Boy failed back in the mid 1990's. Rumors a buzz in the industry came when the reported Nintendo On video was released. Many gamers thought it was going to be the next Nintendo system. Unfortunately it was determined to be fake and made by a fan. However lately the SeriousGamer007 Blog has been creating a lot of buzz with talk of Stereoscopic 3D Visor. In fact reportedly the Blog may actually be a hyping tool to create buzz about Nintendo's next console led by Nintendo's marketing team. SeriousGamer007 even claims to have played the latest game system and hints to either true Virtual Reality or full immersion through Stereoscopic 3D glasses." hope spruill

[edit] Jaron Lanier

I added a link to Jaron Lanier's page where he states his claim to have coined the term VR. I have no idea why this reference doesn't work i.e. it shows as a reference but when clicked goes nowhere. I would be most obliged if someone could fix it. Sincere apologies. Morgan Leigh 01:13, 18 July 2006 (UTC)Yo, duder if you want the Virtual Reality, you have to work for it. Just remember some schools like sunshine use Virtual Reality for teaching but it could also be dangerous in the wrong hands. If you need to draw up the Charter Marks but only when you need them, Sabriel, Lirael, Abhorsen, read these books to learn more.

[edit] Archival

[edit] Ubiquitous Computing

{{authoronlinesource2005|section=April 22-30 | author=Randy Dotinga | title=Virtual Reality May Help Troubled Vets | org=HealthDay]], reprinted by ABC News and [[Forbes | url=http://www.healthcentral.com/news/NewsFullText.cfm?id=525170], [1], & [http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/health/feeds/hscout/2005/04/24/hscout525170.html | date=April 24, 2005 }}

I strongly disagree with the tone of this article. It's as if VR were in a battle with UbiComp. Or that UbiComp arose in response to VR.

UbiComp comes about because it's just USEFUL to put computers everywhere.

And VR will still come to pass. And it's hardly intrinsicly "anti-social," any more than Wikipedia is intrinsicly "anti-social." It's just a medium for communication.

It feels like there's an agenda in this article- a model of the computer mediums as "anti-people," and material mediums as being "pro-people." Both rediculous notions. Neither system is "pro" or "anti" people. This is a war in someone's head, it seems to me.

I'd rather if the Virtual Reality article were more about, well, Virtual Reality.

[edit] Origin of the term

Origins are given for the terms "artificial reality" and "cyberspace", but not "virtual reality" itself. I believe that the first use of the term is often attributed to Damien Broderick's science fiction novel The Judas Mandala (this is indeed claimed in the entry on Broderick), where it is used in a slightly different sense, but there may be other candidates. Someone might want to check this out and add a sentence early in the article.

Metamagician3000 13:32, 23 December 2005

Looking further down in the article, I see that the term is attributed to Lanier in 1989. This really should be mentioned earlier in the article where there is a reference to the origin of other terms. In any event, Lanier certainly did not invent the term (at least not in 1989) as The Judas Mandala was several years earlier. However, he may have been the first to use it in the sense that is now in common use. Metamagician3000 01:06, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

RE - Revised the VR term attribution to reflect your points. It was a holdover from the old content. -- Dx 02:44, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Timeline?

Will somebody please do something about that timeline. Wikipedia is not built on material that is hypothetical-paul@wiki

[edit] Is it just nitpicking?

I would just like to know. Of all the comments and discussions I read, are people complaining about the layout, or references and other things in the article, or really attempting to learn and further the fields?


[edit] 'Future' section

The whole Future section seems to violate the 'WP is not a crystal ball' policy as well as being almost totally Unsourced & Original Research. I think the section should be removed. The Challenges section suffess from similar problems. Ashmoo 05:34, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I also do not understand why this entry would already be sealed from further edits as VR continues to evolve and corporate, military, and academic research continues. Bias is inevitable--it can also be called 'interpretation' but I do find the page currently lacking in any broader assessment, outside of entertainment functions, of VR's relationship to broader cultural issues. To tout my own horn, this entry should include a reference to my own book-- Ken Hillis, 1999, "Digital Sensations: Space, Identity and Embodiment in Virtual Reality," Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press. ISBN 0-8166-3251-0. Posted February 9, 2007.

[edit] Protected?

Why is this page protected or semi-protected? It includes some blatant spam (amigahistory) that needs to be removed. — Frecklefoot | Talk 12:53, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] what it is

it well just a thing that ummmmm just makes real and crazy things look like they are actually happening

[edit] What do you call?

You know, it's like a space shuttle that wobbles around and you sit inside and watch like a 3D roller coaster? It's quite a popular attraction... Thanx in advance --Shandristhe azylean 11:36, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

A motion platform? 69.95.50.15 18:12, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Thank you so much, that's what I meant! =PP --Shandristhe azylean 12:22, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Total rewrite needed

This is without a doubt one of the worst articles I have seen on Wikipedia. Very little referencing, ridiculous speculation, and a terrible style of writing mean that this really needs a complete rewrite. Any volunteers? SaintedLegion 21:09, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I mostly agree, though I don't think there is nearly enough speculation in the article. It would be clearly better if it wasn't a bare unimagitative list of various mentions of VR and early VR products. As it currently stands it's a really horrible article. Paranoid 17:56, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Television

Many of you may not known it, but in 1988 RAI TV Italy channel 2, national italian TV broadcaster in a young people show called "Tandem", (staging from 1984 to 1989 circa) featured a virtual reality installation. It was realized thru Mandala System by Vivid Group Inc. a firm based in Canada. It is made of 3 Amiga A3000 (one to acquire images), another to genlock images with the object created by the third computer.

It featured an experience of yourself on TV screen interacting with your gesture with computer generated objects.

I have only some incomplete proofs on italian TV sites and some fan sites of this ancient TV show.

How can I insert this fact in "Television" section being believed of this fact? Another user deleted my contribute, perhaps he believed it was false or uncredited.

--Raffaele Megabyte 16:48, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

After careful study of what you wrote, I've concluded it does not qualify as VR. Could you explain? — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 17:14, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Virtual reality could be immersive or not immersive. Mandala it is an example of NON immersive VR.

Regarding Mandala System check with google what it does and what kind of virtual reality it is...

Italian RAI TV show "Tandem" predates of many years other tv shows showing other examples of VR.maybe stuck with helmets and gloves.

--Raffaele Megabyte 17:30, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for Comment: Very nervous System by David Rokeby

I wrote a section regarding "Very Nervous System" by David Rokeby, a kind of virtual reality experience that involves the visitors to walk or making gesture in a delimited space. In this "special" space continuously monitored, sensors detected movements by the visitors and generate music thru synthetizers. All the system it is controlled by a Macintosh computer.

David Rokeby has also already a brief article on Wikipedia.

Unfortunately another user (Arthur_Rubin), continuously delete this section as he believes that David Rokeby has no relevance at all in the history of Virtual Reality.

My position is that Mr. Rokeby deserves a place in this article because he is a real pioneer. His systems David Rokeby site received since 1986 a vaste number of awards and acknowledgements.

Description of Very Nervous System is here and here. It is a very innovative system, different from normal virtual reality systems and never ever equalled.

Thanks to its genie and its installations Mr. Rokeby won award at Biennale of Arts in Venice in 1986. He won Prix Ars Electronica Award of Distinction for Interactive Art (1991), He was awarded of one of the highest honour in Canada, the Governor_General's_Award.

Due to all these acknowledgements I ask that the section regarding Mr. Rokeby to be reissued in this article.

He deserve its place in history of Virtual Reality.

Sincerely,

--Raffaele Megabyte 17:47, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

The description you gave doesn't qualify as "virtual reality", but as "non-mechanical interaction". There seems (again, from your description) to be little relationship between the user/participant's action and the result in the image. You might as well call a theremin a "virtual musical instrument". — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 03:48, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
A virtual musical instrumente is not what you described. A virtual music instrument, it is a musical instrument realized thru emulation, of a precise instrument different form any other existing. Very nervous system does not create new and non-existing instuments. It just plays already existing instruments using any body moves, and it plays randomly, not complete sequences. The reality naturally does not plays music excepts than sounds of nature. When you entered in a space with precise bounduaries, monitorized by sensors that pilots synthetizers which emit different music at every move you made (VNS virtual reality experience), then you could had experienced a different reality than normal one, and this is just another form of virtual reality. It not uses the sense of sight but the sense of hearing. I am lucky because I personally experienced Very Nervous System and Mandala VR System in a science exhibit in Naples, Italy, 1993. This fact teach me that VR it is more than a 3D helmet and gloves. Why other senses should be punished and removed from virtual reality simulated experiences?

--Raffaele Megabyte 11:13, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Virtual reality is a generated environment whose intent is to "fool" you as completely as possible into thinking you're actually in another place, by allowing you to not only interact with it to create effects, but to interact with other virtual objects, virtual characters, and with other real people who have entered that virtual environment. What you're describing is just a system for playing music. A synthesizer does the same thing, only you control it by pressing keys instead of moving your body. An element of randomness doesn't make it any more "virtual reality". I realize you like it and think it's great, and it probably is, maybe even deserving its own article -- but it doesn't belong here.
Equazcion (Talk • Contribs)
22:21, September 11, 2007
Upon further thought, it might be virtual (spacial awareness → sound) synesthesia. I'm still not convinced it should be here, but that opens up A Whole New World. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 00:49, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Responding to the RfC: The "Very Nervous System" section certainly doesn't belong in this article. Not only is it only tangentially related to the idea of "virtual reality", it's also expressing an opinion rather than encyclopedic facts. Since it's clearly against the neutral point of view policy, I'm removing it. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 21:57, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A real computer-simulated environment?

From the first sentence: "a computer-simulated environment, be it a real or imagined one". On first reading this doesn't make sense to me. If it is computer simulated, it's not real. Is it supposed to mean: either computer simulation of reality or computer simulation of fantasy? Nurg 05:26, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes that is what it's supposed to mean. The current wording made immediate sense to me when I first read it. Grammatically I think it's correct: it's saying "a computer-simulated real environment, or a computer-simulated imagined environment." You could change the word "real" to "realistic" or "real-world", and "imagined" to "fantasy", as possible suggestions. That might be a little clearer.
Equazcion • argue/improves • 23:13, 09/30/2007
It is a little confusing, but I think it means to indicate that VR can be, and often is, used to simulate a real environment. Some place you can't really go, the core of a nuclear reactor for example, Or some real place like the deck of an aircraft carrier, where you want to test not-yet-built equipment. APL (talk) 17:26, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Virtuality

Ted Nelson wrote an article in the November 1980 issue of Creative Computing magazine called "Interactive Systems and the Design of Virtuality". Using the term "Virtuality" in reference to computers may have been coined by Nelson. Virtuality (software design) -- an uncited article, credits the term to him. Perhaps this should be mentioned in the article. -- ☑ SamuelWantman 10:52, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Seems quite a bit off topic to me. Adam McCormick (talk) 23:23, 12 May 2008 (UTC)