Talk:Virtual Console

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Contents

[edit] Absence of Rumble and other features

My paragraph on the lack of rumble and other peripheral features in N64 games was axed as being OR. I can understand that argument, but I think it's still important to note that, objectively, the features are missing. Luigihann 12:42, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Specifically,

  • N64 games do not support rumble (originally provided by the N64 "Rumble Pak"), confirmed here: [1]
  • Mario Kart 64 no longer allows for the saving of ghost data (originally enabled by the "Controller Pak") Nintendo says this is due to "unavoidable technical reasons" [2]
  • Kid Icarus no longer supports "secret passwords" from the original (they were, according to the game's box art, enabled by an included "password pak." [3]

I won't speculate on the common cause (as that is, admittedly, OR), but it seems to be a trend worth mentioning. Luigihann 14:33, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Even though it may have been perceived as being OR, I agree that it's important to note that some games emulated via VC are missing certain features. At the moment, I think the lack of rumble in N64 games is more relevant due to the fact that it applies across several games; with a few more examples, it seems it would be safe to say that functionality in general provided by peripherals plugged into the N64 via the controller port is diminished or missing. You seem to have a few sources now, and I can't say I'd argue with you if you decided to re-add the bit about N64 games and missing functionality, though I'd wait before adding anything else concerning any NES games until more examples can be demonstrated. --PeanutCheeseBar 22:50, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Kid Icarus has a source from Nintendo Power (V.214 or V.215 not sure which one) Stating that the orginal passwords will not work with the VC version. Neo Samus 17:56, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Man, the "differences from original versions" section is kind of crap now. Somebody should reword it or rewrite it from scratch, because it just looks sloppy with all the disorganized facts. Luigihann 02:12, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WTF?

This wiki says the Wii VC has games for Commorode 64, Neo Geo, MSX, and some other systems most of you probably never heard of. The VC only has NES, SNES, N64, Genesis, and Turbo Grafix 16. THATS IT! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.104.100.2 (talk • contribs)

I guess you didn't read the entire article. Nintendo announced that MSX games will be added starting in the summer, and Neo Geo games in the fall (both just for Japan so far). Commodore 64 has never been announced by Nintendo though, it was a Japanese website called The Magic Box that said they would be added. TJ Spyke 04:45, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Nintendo of Norway claimed that the C64 port of Impossible Mission was the one coming to VC (as opposed to the NES port). That's yet to be confirmed though. Kelvingreen 08:59, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Are you sure they weren't talking about the remake for the Wii (Impossible Mission (2007 game))? TJ Spyke 09:24, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Nope, definitely the C64 version, although it has since disappeared from the list on their VC page. I suppose we'll find out later this month. Kelvingreen 16:29, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
This turned out to be Nintendo Norway confusing the upcoming Wii version for a VC rerelease, according to an e-mail. Fearnavigatr 23:47, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Not that I don't believe you (it certainly seems plausible), but could you provide a link to that email? It might even be worth including a piece on the C64 confusion in the VC article here. Kelvingreen 15:53, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
I can include the whole e-mail here, but I'm afraid the messages are in Swedish and Norweigan.
Ja, dette var en glipp fra vår side. Impossible Mission er annonsert som et Wii-spill, ikke som et Virtual Console-spill.

Hilsen Nintendo Support


Original Message-----

From: support@nintendo.no [4] Sent: Sun 15.04.2007 00:29 To: support Subject: Message from nintendo.no

Message from nintendo.no <ID: > ______________________________________________________________________ Form: E-post:

Navn: Jochen Piribauer E-postadresse: jochen_piribauer@yahoo.se Spørsmål eller synspunkt: Hej, jag skriver från Sverige och undrar om rapporten om Elevator Action och Impossible Mission som fanns på er Virtual Console lista fram tills nyligen. Elevator Action är troligt, eftersom det redan finns i USA, men Impossible Mission är det väldigt många som är nyfikna över. Var detta ett misstag från er sida och en förväxling med den kommande Wii/DS-versionen, eller är det officiellt att Commodore 64 spel snart kommer finnas för nedladdning?

Tack på förhand.

______________________________________________________________________ Date: 2007-04-15 00:29:08 | IP-address: *edited out*

And the translation:

  • Nintendo Norway reply:

Yes, this was a slip-up from our side. Impossible Mission is announced as a Wii game, not a Virtual Console game.

Regards, Nintendo Support

  • My message:

Hello, I'm writing from Sweden and I'm curious about the report on Elevator Action and Impossible Mission that was on your Virtual Console-page up until recently. Elevator Action is probable, since it's already released in the US, but many people are curious about Impossible Mission. Was this a mistake from your side and a mix-up with the forthcoming Wii/DS-version, or is it officially confirmed that Commodore 64 games will soon be available for downloading?

Thanks in advance.

I searched long and hard for a better way to include the e-mail here, like a smaller font. Feel free to edit my post to put it in better. In case you need further proof, I'll be happy to forward the original e-mail to you. Either case, this is probably not stuff for the article, as I'd guess it qualifies as original research. Fearnavigatr 11:00, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

No, you're probably right that it shouldn't be in the article, but I think it's useful information to have at our disposal anyway. Thanks for passing it on. Kelvingreen 22:05, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Is no one else going to say "Commorode 64, Neo Geo, MSX... have you seriously never heard of them before!?!" JayKeaton 21:04, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What in the world is this supposed to mean?

In January 22, 2008, 2 new consoles for Virtual Console is PlayStation and Sega Saturn because it has 3000 wii points like $50 per 3000 for each retails.

I took this off of the pricing section because it fails to say anything intelligible or helpful, but I'm sure the poster intended for it to do so. Can anyone make any sense out of this? SixteenBitJorge 18:09, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism. Most likely added by an IP. TJ Spyke 01:07, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Playstation!?! That'll never happen, not while the PS3 exists. Digifiend (talk) 13:25, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Super Metroid

Is Super Matroid out yet, or is it still a future release? I can't check because my shop channel won't go on for some reason, and I don't know if the game list is updated. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 168.212.252.30 (talk) 17:45, 23 April 2007 (UTC).

The list here are updated almost instantly. No, Super Metroid is not out yet (in any region). TJ Spyke 05:46, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Square Enix to not support the Virtual Console

Source: [5] magiciandude 07:40, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

1)That is not what the source says. 2)Square Enix owns Taito, and there is already a Taito game (Elevator Action) on the VC. 3)We have already seen a Square Enix game (ActRaiser) on the VC. TJ Spyke 07:50, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh, sorry. Thanks for pointing that out. magiciandude 08:11, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Japanese Pronunciation

I'm pretty sure Virtual Console is officially pronounced in Japanese as ヴァーチャル ンソール/Vaacharu Konsouru, because now, for foreign words, a word that starts out with a "V" is pronounced with a "V", although the sound of a "B" only replaces the sound of a "V" that follows some syllables in a word, because the Italian names: Valentina is pronounced in Japanese as Varentiina, and Victoria is pronounced in Japanese as Vikkutouriia. --PJ Pete

Wrong. Check the sources in the article. - Zero1328 Talk? 05:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm going to have to agree with Zero; everything I've ever seen or read points to the "B" being used in lieu of a "V". --PeanutCheeseBar 12:17, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Also, the use of an u with a dakuten is a modern addition and is still fairly uncommon. Just because it can be used doesn't mean it is. - Zero1328 Talk? 06:48, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
More importantly, is it really even necessary? In 90% of the articles where I see the katakana pronunciation of English names of Japanese properties, it's entirely unnecessary. What purpose does it serve? Kcumming 21:29, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Logo image

Is that really the logo for the Virtual Console, or is it just a picture taken from the website? The only place I've seen it is in the VC FAQs and it really only looks like a picture to fill some room up. --Brandon Dilbeck 21:03, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it qualifies for fair use, since it's not really helping to illustrate anything, so I'm going to remove it. --Brandon Dilbeck 21:20, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Maybe somebody can take a picture of the Wii Shop Channel (when you first log on and see pictures of various VC games). TJ Spyke 21:24, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Languages

I added the following text. Some user removed it saying it is nsourced and NN IMO. I suppose NN stands for Not Needed. I do not see why that would be the case.

An alternative would be to add this in the euro section of the VC page.

TEXT: In the European Virtual Console some but not all games are available in the languages they were originally published in.

Some games are multilingual (as they were in their original form, example: Super Mario 64), others are avaiable in mutliple versions (example: The Legend Of Zelda: A Link To The Past). The Wii's country setting decides which version will be available for download. If a user wants to download more than one version, he is charged once per version.

An example for a game not available in all of its original language choices is Kirby's Adventure. The NES game was published in a fully localized version in Germany, but only the English version has been made avaiable for users connecting to the Wii Shop Channel, with a German country setting, in time of the game's Virtual Console release. Daniel c W 10:06, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Can you provide a reliable source (see WP:RS) for all that? TJ Spyke 10:11, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
yes and no. nintendo's customer service supports what i wrote and i checked it multiple times - i.e.: used that knowledge to download an eglish version of zelda 3 from germany. (and i know you could download the german version from england as well) anyway i found NO written text on the internet in english or german about it via google. after checking your link and wiki's texts about No original research and reliable sorces I don't think I need those, because, it is not likely to be challenged or challenged at all and it does not match any terms under "What is excluded?" from [Wikipedia:No_original_research] (Also every european wii owner can check it - and it is like meantioning the total number of VC-games in the article; that number is accepted w/o being sourced) Daniel c W 20:13, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
As I see it, the language selection for certain VC-titles depends on country and language setting. My Wii is set to Switzerland, English, and I can choose between English, French and German versions, ActRaiser and ALTTP are available in English, French and German, but Kirby's Adventure only in English and French. Screenshot of the Kirby's SelectionZueriHB (talk) 05:55, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Does the Virtual Console upscale older games?

I was wondering about it since the Legend of Zelda OoT has an upscaled version on GameCube so it's not really a problem to do it with an emulator... Maybe somebody should check it... 84.1.205.38 10:43, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the N64 VC games are upscaled to 480i and 480p. 67.49.212.101 23:45, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
the n64 games are not upscaled, they render in a higher resolution - that is a difference Daniel c W 01:59, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
...Isn't that what "upscaled" means? 67.49.212.101 02:58, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
No. Upscaled: a picture is scaled to the new resolution (bitmap pixel wise) Rendering: the original data are used to render in a higher resolution. I. E. the games output 3D Data (polygons, textures) and those are used to render the picture. if it would "just" upscale, the rendered picture would be "stretched". so you won't see more details finer edges, etc. Daniel c W 11:47, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
it is an emulution, so the games output resolution is upscaled to the wii's resolution, some PAL games stretch to avoid black bars Daniel c W 01:59, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Worth noting: All games in Virtual Console stretch to fill the screen, but do not preserve aspect ratio. In other words, if you're running in Widescreen mode (16:9), an NES game will be stretched farther horizontally than vertically. (This assumes that this wasn't addressed in a recent system update - last I saw this behavior was in February.) — KieferSkunk (talk) — 21:09, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Key mappings

The section Virtual_Console#Storage_and_control looks like pure WP:CRUFT to me : keyboard mappings and the like. Is it relevant to keep this content in the article? --Oscarthecat 16:18, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Most of the section is fine, but I agree that the key mappings are not necessary. -- MisterHand 19:03, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Agree. I've now removed just the key mappings, in this edit. --Oscarthecat 10:22, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Paper Mario 64

Nintendo Power said Paper Mario 64 was on the Wii Shop Channel. I checked and it wasn't. What the Hell man!... --TheGreenLink 18:10, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Nintendo Power never said it was on the Wii Shop Channel, an editor just said they would like to see it. However, Nintendo has confirmed Japan will get it in June, so we the rest of the world should get it around the same time (if history repeats, Nintendo 64 games have been released worldide within a couple of weeks of each other). TJ Spyke 19:45, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Well... I'm an idiot... I guess I should read the entire thing instead of looking at a picture and getting my hopes up too soon... --TheGreenLink 17:39, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Running figures for Virtual Console downloads?

The Library History section is starting to run like dateline...? Where the section comprises of single-line sentences starting with "on day x..."? Anyway, I've heard that's a bad thing so I was wondering whether it was worth keeping the running statistics, or to formulate a table to house, or something akin to that idea. Any suggestions? --Zooba 13:29, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Will we ever be able to download Gameboy and/or GBA games?

I would like to know if you will gever be able to download gameboy classics. (Alex-thong 21:41, 2 June 2007 (UTC))

Nintendo has said that GB games won't be available on VC... this cold change, of course, but not for a while if it does. Miles Blues 22:58, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

The GBA (and the Game Boy Player add-on for Gamecube) is backwards compatible with old Game Boy carts. DS isn't though, it only plays GBA. I reckon Wii's successor's VC might have the Game Boy (in about 5 years time!), until then use an emulator or a GBA. Digifiend (talk) 13:28, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Just a note: While this hasn't gotten any traffic in a while, it's still important to note that Wikipedia is not a forum. This sort of discussion doesn't really belong here. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 15:54, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] External Link?

To follow the rule of non-conflicting interests, I can't edit in a link to a site I contribute to, but I'd like to at least see if everyone would think it would be appropriate to put this link under "External Links":

http://www.the-bell-tree.com/vg/virtualconsole.php

There is an updated list (every week right when games are released) of every single game, sorted by system. Each game is listed along with a screenshot and a brief description. Also, there are reviews with recommendations for over half of the currently available games (nearly 60 out of the available 98), listed by the week in which they were released.

Like I said, I'd add it myself, but it's against the rules, so please discuss here about adding it or not. Miles Blues 21:44, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

So, shall they be added? Miles Blues 01:11, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
We only need 1 really. I would go with vc-reviews. TJ Spyke 02:12, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
I think both would be good, since they differ a bit, and offer unique opinions on the games. Also, as a side note, someone added a link to a site called WiiGeeks earlier today or yesterday, but I removed the link. The site was just a list of the games with links to videos on Youtube and auctions on eBay for the games... there's no point linking to a site that only provides links to content on other sites for games. Miles Blues 22:29, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
I think only one is needed, and I would go with vc-reviews since it's not US-centric. Tim (Xevious) 09:45, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I don't care which one is used, but there should only be one...and typically the site with the most traffic is picked. We don't want the article to turn into a link farm for everybody with a VC-related site. (see WP:EL) -- MisterHand 13:30, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
There are only 3 external links at the moment, and to be honest, both of these sites would be good in my opinion. Both offer reviews of VC games, as well as overviews, but by only linking to one of the review sites, a game that may have a good review on one site and bad on the other would not get the best possible representation possible, which is why both should be linked to. Also, although you may say the one is "US-centric", the difference among the libraries of VC games in Japan, Europe, and North America are minimal, so that should not be used as a determining factor to eliminate one from being in the links section. I follow Nintendo/Wii news closely, and to my knowledge, there aren't very many sites with such in-depth coverage of VC games as these two sites - so adding both would not make the article a "link farm". Miles Blues 20:53, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
People are not stupid, and if they want to find more reviews of VC games they are able to search themselves. Also, vc-reviews contains more information, including PAL issues with games and details of the latest releases in all regions. The only thing that the other site has in addition is a different opinion, and opinions are not what Wikipedia aims for. Tim (Xevious) 09:32, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
VC-Reviews provides the points cost, origianl system, release date on VC and what controllers can be used for the game, as well as a review and rating. The Bell Tree provides the original system, original release date, VC release date, developer and points cost, as well as a review and rating. Both also have screenshots from games. Basically, the only differences are that VCR tells what controllers can be used and TBT gives the developer and original release date. Also, if "People are not stupid, and if they want to find more reviews of VC games they are able to search themselves," then there is absolutely no point to an External Links section. The point of the links section is to provide links so people don't have to go looking. Miles Blues 17:44, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
So the "extra" bits that TBT gives is information which is available on Wikipedia anyway, while it loses other information compared to vc-reviews which isn't available on Wikipedia. We certainly don't want to link to every site which contains information on VC games, so why not restrict it to just the one that contains the most information (and, incidentally, the one that acknowledges that the world is not restricted to the US). Tim (Xevious) 00:06, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
It's unfair to say that TBT does not "acknowledge that the world is not restricted to the US." The differences between the library of of North American VC games and European VC games is minimal (TBT covers only NA, VCR has from Eur. and NA). I still think it would be best to have both, for a couple reasons:
1) WP:NPOV#Undue_weight - The best way to not have a "weighted opinion" is to link to multiple sites (not too many, but 2 is not very many at all). Both VCR and TBT have well-written reviews on the games. A person reading the article may have similar tastes to one site rather than the other, and after reading a couple reviews, they'll be able to choose which they prefer, rather than only being shown one site in the article.
2) In the Wikipedia:External links section, it says, under the 'What should be linked section, "Sites with other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article, such as reviews and interviews."
3) In the Animal Crossing article, both Animal Crossing Ahead and Animal Crossing Community are linked to. Both provide very similar information, yet it would be tough to choose between the two if only one was linked to. The best solution for the VC page could possibly be to do something similar to the Animal Crossing page - create 2 subsections (Official Sites and Unofficial Sites), with the first 2 links currently in the article under Official Links, and the third link along with VCR and TBT going under the Unofficial Links subsection. Miles Blues 02:16, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
It's been 2 weeks... anyone else have any thoughts on the matter? Miles Blues 15:10, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
I say put both in. Your arguments are valid enough, and the two do provide distinct-enough information. Tim (Xevious) 15:07, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the thoughts, Tim... how does everyone else feel about this? Sorry I was gone recently - I was sorting out the whole fiasco on the NA VC list page... Miles Blues 18:48, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
TO be honest, it doesn't matter to me if we have just one or both. TJ Spyke 03:52, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
I guess I'll go ahead and add both sites. Should there be 2 subsections in external links (one for official, one for unofficial)? Miles Blues 02:08, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Delay on HDTVs -- Punch Out only?

There's a blurb in there that links to some mention that Punch Out is delayed on HDTVs, causing the game to be more difficult as the timing is thrown off. While I won't argue that this can happen, this seems to be misleading as the problem is not only in Punch Out. Many HDTVs use filters to smoothly upscale an image to the generally larger screen, and this is what results in the delay the article poster refers to at the linked page. Newer HDTVs either don't have this issue or will have a "Game Mode" setting which disables filters in an attempt to get the picture to the screen as quickly as possible, thereby reducing or eliminating the delay that causes this issue.

I propose this statement be removed or clarified as it is currently confusing and misleading, and could lead to the assumption that there is something wrong with the game in question rather than the user's TV setup. STLocutus 20:51, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I was just about to make a new section about this issue, when I saw this section. I just removed the statement simply because being hooked up to an HDTV wouldn't cause lag for a game. As was stated in the paragraph, this was due to upconversion issues within the TV itself and thus has nothing to do with the Virtual Console as it would happen with any old games and/or systems. -Zomic13 (talk) 05:07, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] turbografx in australia

Arcording to the Nintendo Australia website turbografx games well be available in Australia and New Zeland on july 6 as i discovered a few minutes ago click here to visit nintendo australiaRichardson j 03:09, 10 June 2007 (UTC)


[edit]  ?!

The second and fourth sentences under 'Library History' say the same thing. You're welcome. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.54.174.9 (talk • contribs)

Thanks, I've fixed it. Remember, Wikipedia is the encyclopedia anybody can edit, so if you find an error feel free to be bold and correct it yourself. -- MisterHand 00:59, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Definition of Virtual Console seems misleading

The current lead, and other portions of the article, define "Virtual Console" as the portion of the Wii Shop Channel that allows players to purchase and download games, and it also says that the Virtual Console emulates the consoles that run these older games. This may be how the CEO at Nintendo described it in a press release, but the way it's currently worded is technically incorrect.

  • The Virtual Console is a built-in feature of the Wii itself that provides emulation services for the selected consoles.
  • The Wii Menu launches the Virtual Console with the selected game (when a VC game is selected).
  • The Wii Shop Channel allows users to purchase and download games for the Virtual Console, and therefore the Shop Channel has a Virtual Console section. HOWEVER: It is a separate entity from the Virtual Console itself. The main reason this shop channel and the VC are so closely interlinked is because it's not possible to get VC games onto a Wii any other way (you can't transfer VC games from one Wii to another).

I think the article should call out the distinction between these entities both in the lead and as separate sections, so that people understand the difference between the online service and the intrinsic functionality of the console. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 21:17, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

You have been misinformed, you should do your research before you make edits. The term "Virtual Console" is only used correctly in describing the Wii Shop's lineup of classic titles. "Virtual Console" is NOT a built-in hardware feature. The Wii does not contain any hardware of any past system other than GameCube. Each VC title is nothing more than an individually programmed software application-- more specifically, they're tailor-made emulation programs which contain their particular game's ROM. The reason it appears that VC titles can't be transferred to other Wiis is because of the Wii Shop uses a "license" system. Whenever software is downloaded from the Wii Shop, a license is encoded onto that particular Wii console granting it ability to run the software. This is actually the case for all software (even the free ones) from the Wii Shop, not just VC titles. Software (including VC games) actually, CAN be transferred to other Wiis, they just won't run unless a license is recognized. The software itself will transfer. For example, say you recently downloaded Star Fox 64, and a friend of yours downloaded it awhile ago, so he has the older version which didn't have the preserved slowdown rate. You like the faster version better, and would like it on yours. If you were to copy his version and transfer it to your Wii, it WILL work because your Wii has the license to run it. The program itself is not specific to a single Wii. It can run on any Wii as long as it's authorized to run it.It has nothing to do with any kind of "Virtual Console" hardware, because there is no such thing. VC games are emulated entirely through the software, no special hardware is involved. If it were, it would be impossible to add support to new systems like Neo Geo and MSX.--75.24.50.220 15:10, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
At no point did I claim that the Wii hardware-emulates any other console. I said that it is a feature of the Wii, and I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that people would understand that the specific technical implementation of this feature is less important to the WP article than the description of the feature itself. To address your points above:
  • The built-in Wii software provides emulation support for the NES, SNES, etc. It is a non-removable software feature (non-removable by the user, though a System Update could change it).
  • The individual game titles available for download via Wii Shop are just the ROM images packaged up with metadata, image and documentation data, and DRM licensing that is keyed to the online Wii account used to make the purchase. The titles themselves do not contain emulation software.
  • My understanding is that even if Wii A and Wii B both have the same title downloaded, you CANNOT transfer the title from Wii A to Wii B and play it on Wii B - that just won't work, because the license associated with SF64-A does not match the license on Wii B. I am not 100% sure on this, but I would need to see an official citation describing the difference. You *can* transfer the content itself, but SF64-A won't actually play on Wii-B even if SF64-B exists on the same console.
  • My understanding is also that the emulation differences between two Wiis have to do with the version of the Wii Console software itself, as well as various settings on the Wii (for instance, Wiis configured in widescreen mode apparently exhibit different behavior in some VC games than those in 4:3 mode), etc. On the software side of things, running a System Update on both Wiis over the 'Net or by installing from a game disc (as in Metroid Prime 3) would cause both downloaded copies of SF64 to behave the same (minus any settings issues).
  • Nintendo has not announced any "game-by-game servicing" scheme in which you can update a VC title to fix bugs, that I'm aware of. (This differs from the PS3 and 360, where the emulation software is built in to the downloaded package and can be updated on a game-by-game basis.)
To say that Virtual Console is ONLY a function of Wii Shop is technically incorrect - Wii Shop gives you access to the games, and without it you wouldn't have a way to use the feature. But the software to emulate the consoles themselves resides on the Wii, not in the downloadable packages - otherwise, the packages would be much larger than they are. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 19:11, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
You clearly haven't tested any of things you're arguing against and are only going by your own assumptions. I know this because I, on the other hand, have tested it first hand. The whole SF64 scenario I mentioned, is something I actually did, so I know it works. Also contrary to what you believe, Nintendo actually does offer "game-by-game" updates. Not only do I know this from having downloaded more than one of these updates myself, but this very same Wikipedia article even discussed these various updates further on down the page (go look for yourself). Plus, I've performed multiple system updates since I originally downloaded SF64, and it hasn't updated my version, so the emulation clearly isn't preformed by the system software. I assure you everything you keep trying to re-assert really is incorrect, take my word for it.
Even if you don't want to take my word for it, your edits still aren't legitimate because you didn't provide a source. Therefore, the only legitimate description that can be used on this page is the indisputable one, of it as a section of the Wii Shop. If you try to change it again, it will be considered vandalism and you will be reported.--24.154.105.181 22:10, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Three points here:
  • First, please do not assume that I'm acting in bad faith. You have also not sourced your version of the intro, and unless the Japanese-only "overview" link that's cited in the intro explains this discrepancy, your edits are no more valid than mine are. I disagree that your version is "indisputable" - I find it just as disputable as you find my version.
  • Second, I would encourage you to create an account if you intend to report me for vandalism. Reports to WP:AN/I by anonymous users against established ones rarely go anywhere. If you want to lend yourself some credibility, you should consider establishing an identity on Wikipedia first.
  • Third, if the technical nature of Virtual Console is as you say it is, surely there must be a reliable, published source that verifies your claim. I am certainly not saying that I'm absolutely right on this matter, and I'm not taking ownership of this article by any means. But all the advertising and discussion I've seen (including with a couple of NOA employees) has seemed to indicate that Virtual Console is not just the Wii Shop channel.
    • Granted, you're right that I need to find a source about my version of the intro, and I haven't provided one. But as I said earlier, just because it's unsourced does not automatically make it wrong, nor does that qualify it automatically as vandalism.
I don't really appreciate being threatened with a report of vandalism - to me, that seems like you're asserting yourself as owner and arbiter of what is right. While I consider your points valid, I would like to see an official source on your end backing up what you say, or else I can no more accept your assertions as fact than you can mine. I will attempt to locate a reliable source for my version as well. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 22:54, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
My apologies, I didn't intend that to come off as a threat-- it was meant to be a reminder since it was the second time you changed it without citing anything to back your claim. My wording may have appeared more harsh than I intended, but I assure you was not trying to be rude, or asserting myself as an ultimate authority. What I was pointing out was what you were asserting (for the second time), was not supported by any source and therefore should not be continued to be changed back unless one could be provided. Granted, I was in error as well by not including a source either, but it is "indisputable" in a way. After all, it can hardly be argued that "Virtual Console" isn't a section of the Wii Shop. It can be disputed as to whether or not it's only limited to that description (especially with a source), but that was not being asserted in my version of the article.--24.154.105.181 00:13, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Apology accepted. As to the "indisputable" portion: It's true that Virtual Console is a section of the Wii Shop channel, but is it not also true that Virtual Console is a feature of the Wii? Or at least one of its primary selling points? It's similar to Xbox Live Arcade, in that both services allow you to download games to their respective consoles, but the Wii's service is much more targeted, and the way it's run suggests that the Wii Shop channel supports the feature, but is not in itself the feature. That's what I was getting at.
If we can find a source that definitively describes one or the other of these assertions (or hey, we might be surprised and find that neither one of them is true!), then that should be the basis for a final lead. Let's leave it your way for now until we come to a resolution. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 00:20, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Just a quick update: I did some searching around for a technical description of the VC from any verifiable source, and couldn't find one either way. We may have difficulty citing either version of this lead. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 00:38, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

One of the sources quoted further down in the article seems to refute the claim that you can transfer a VC game onto another console. Check out current reference 29 to this interview. The quote is as follows:

“ Will you be able to take your VC games to a mate's house, say, on an SD card?

Nintendo: No. All VC games will be locked to the console they are downloaded on so even if they are on an SD card they can't be used on other machines. You will have to take your Wii with you.

 ”

This appears to address the question of getting around DRM on two Wiis. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 00:15, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

"The built-in Wii software provides emulation support for the NES, SNES, etc. It is a non-removable software feature (non-removable by the user, though a System Update could change it).

The individual game titles available for download via Wii Shop are just the ROM images packaged up with metadata, image and documentation data, and DRM licensing that is keyed to the online Wii account used to make the purchase. The titles themselves do not contain emulation software."

Incorrect. Each title you download contains the emulation software for that system. If it didn't, you wouldn't be able to play, say, a NeoGeo title, which the system originally launched without support for. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to download a game for a system that the system originally didn't have support for, without doing a Firmware update. Firmware updates can add in support, but the system itself does NOT contain a universal emulator for each system. I am sure there is basic support for each of the systems originally supported, but each title will still come with an emulator. Draknfyre (talk) 22:45, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Do you have any reliable sources? And no, sites that are just guessing that with no proof themselves aren't reliable. TJ Spyke 18:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] No force feedback

Is it absolutely impossible to acquire force feedback, even with the Gamecube controller? 67.188.172.165 00:34, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

To my knowledge, the Virtual Console does not implement force-feedback for N64 games (the only console VC emulates that supported force-feedback). — KieferSkunk (talk) — 00:36, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] United States pricing

No pricing is given for individual games. The Virtual Console has been out long enough this should be published, right? NathanJ79 11:04, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Pricing is right here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Console#Pricing Miles Blues 22:57, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Broadband only?

I have heard VC is broadband only. If so this should be stated, perhaps as a Requirement, since not all of the world is broadband connected - such as a guy living in the country in eastern North Carolina. All we can get outside of Greenville this way is dialup. If that renders the virtual console useless here, it should be noted. NathanJ79 11:04, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

To connect to the Internet, you need broadband and Wi-Fi - thus to get online to download games you will need broadband. However, people have found ways to get around this and connect with dial-up - such as specially configuring their computer to work with dialup and the Wi-Fi USB adapter. So no, it should not be mentioned. Zomic_13 23:41, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
I am not aware of any official verbiage from Nintendo saying that Broadband is required, but the size of their system updates, WiiConnect24 service data, Virtual Console games, etc., would make downloading via dialup very impractical. I think the only major requirement for the Wii to connect to the Internet is that it have a TCP/IP connection - AFAIK, it doesn't measure the connection speed or anything like Xbox Live does. The Wii needs to be able to obtain an IP address of its own (or set one manually), and dialup services generally don't do that. In a dialup scenario, the modem itself gets the IP, and communication with the modem is serial, not TCP/IP, hence your needing to "share" your connection with something like Windows Internet Connection Sharing. Additionally, there are very few Wi-Fi routers that can take care of connecting to the Internet for you via dialup - most of them are only designed to work with broadband services. So basically, you have to really work at it to get the Wii to connect via dialup. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 21:55, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Links

I noticed someone had removed the 2 external links for the unofficial review sites we had decided to add in June. Just wondering if consensus is still to have those in there or not. Miles Blues 04:30, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know... do we NEED to have two VC review websites? Do we need ANY at all? LN3000 07:47, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. I don't think we need them at all. They don't lend anything to the article. The KZA 10:17, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, it's criticism for the product being talked about in the article... that's why I suggested they be added in the first place. Miles Blues 18:21, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Also, since it was agreed upon to have the links in, they should stay until we decide to remove them, right? Miles Blues 18:23, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Where was this agreed upon? — KieferSkunk (talk) — 20:16, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Virtual_Console#External_Link.3F Miles Blues 21:15, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Ah, okay, I missed that. Given the discussion, it sounds like more editors agreed that VC-Reviews was good enough to qualify, but in general, 'unofficial sites' qualify as fan sites and the like, and should be used very sparingly. Unofficial fan/review sites are generally not included in links or used for citations unless they are universally recognized as THE authority on a subject - for example, TheForce.net relating to Star Wars, Nausicaa.net relating to Studio Ghibli films, etc. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 21:49, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
I have mixed thoughts about this... but I don't think they should be there. I'd be fine either way... anyone else with thoughts on this? Miles Blues 18:00, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm not convinced that either site qualifies as an "official" site - in fact, they're noted for being unofficial, and as such they need to have significant notability in their own right (mainly to represent consumer reception) before they're solid as external links. I think in this case, it's better to leave them out. They'll probably be okay to use for citations, though. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 18:36, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recreate Wii Shop Channel article and merge this with that.

The Virtual Console is easily the biggest feature of the Wii Shop Channel, but merging them creates a wider coverage, as well as more notability. - A Link to the Past (talk) 20:42, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Euro Virtual Console

I just received this in my inbox this afternoon, talking about games which were localised in Japan and the US, but not Europe, being released on the European Virtual Console. Eternal Fire 18:45, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Import Games

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Starting today the VC(US version, btw) will be having import games marked with a flag. The first two import games added today are the original Japanese Super Mario Bros. 2 and the N64 game Sin and Punishment. The Great Morgil 18:57, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Adult!?

Someone obviously put these in as a joke. Under the North American and Europe titles it states that next week Nintendo will release adult games under an 'adult' label.

Can this get removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.130.12.106 (talk) 23:36, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

I think it was removed a few hours ago. TJ Spyke 23:49, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Do we really need to keep a current count of Virtual Console games?

Question: Is it really necessary or encyclopedic to keep a running count of the number of VC games that have been released in each region? It requires someone to go and update this page frequently, and ensure that the "as of" date and the number of games for each region, and I've already had to correct this information once. (Not that it's a huge deal to do that, but...)

Wouldn't it suffice to just say that the library is updated every week, usually with three games in each update? We have separate pages to list the games as it is. I vote we summarize the nature of the VC releases and remove the running count to simplify this page. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 18:46, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

To me, it's no different than updating the number of episodes of a TV show. Maybe it could be updated just once a week though (someone updating North America, Europe, Australia and Japan all at once), but there would be people updating it right away rather than waiting. It's not that hard to update and being able to see how many VC games each region has on one page could be helpful. TJ Spyke 22:59, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Unless I'm mistaken, the price of a 2,000 point Wii card has increased in Australia to $35 (in past couple of months). I would assume the cost of buying them by credit card has also increased. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.90.183.21 (talk) 02:42, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wii points- price rise in Australia

Unless I'm mistaken, the price of a 2,000 point Wii card has increased in Australia to $35 (in past couple of months). I would assume the cost of buying them by credit card has also increased. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.90.183.21 (talk) 02:43, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Do you have proof that the RRP (I think that is what Australia uses, similar to the MSRP) is raised? It might just be some stores that raised the price (like how some stores in the United States charge $25 instead of the normal $20). TJ Spyke 02:49, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge discussion

I am proposing a merge discussion on several Wii articles - the discussion to be, however, what to merge and where. If anyone would like to join in, please go to Talk:Wii. - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:51, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Clean Up References

Hey the References is getting a little out of hand. Would any care if I or some one clean it up? Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by WiiNet (talk • contribs) 06:41, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Correcting the Canadian prices

Should the Canadian prices be changed to reflect the dollar being higher then the US dollar. Because i recently bought a wii points card for 18.99 before taxes.99.250.7.155 08:18, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

No. The value of Wii Points do not fluctuate with the changing values of dollars. Wii Points cards can be purchased for different prices here in the US as well, but regardless of the price the point value does not change (100 Wii points is always equal to $1 in the US regardless of whether a 2000 point card was bought for $15 or $25). - Zomic13 08:53, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
The value of Wii Points in a certain country should be judged only by the cost of the points in the Wii Shop Channel and not the cost of Wii Points cards. -Zomic13 08:53, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Someone else changed the prices again. TJ Spyke 00:41, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Prices in another regions

Do you guys think its important to add info about Wii Points prices in another regions of the world? Like Brazil (representing South America) and so on? --Shiggy 00:35, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NeoGeo emulation

Interview at Gamasutra with D4, the one bringing NeoGeo games to the VC. Interesting is that they will be adding some features like difficulty settings to make games more accessible to casual users. -- ReyBrujo 01:46, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Virtual Console Channels!

Is it possible to organise Virtual Console games into their own respective console channels? I.e. N64 games into an N64 channel; SNES games into a SNES channel; etc. I've been told "it's not" on previous discussion boards, but the first image on the "Wii Menu" article shows both an N64 and NES channel. What's the story? --Dark_Wolf101 (talk) 21:48, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

No, sorry but it's not possible, the images are of the games channel while they display the logo of the console they're originally on.  Doktor  Wilhelm  22:27, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
You CAN, however, move the channels around such that your games are organized by system, so long as you have at least one free slot to put an item temporarily while you move them around. But the system logo in each channel just alternates with the title screen of the game, to identify which system the game is for. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 22:58, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] virtual console numbers

http://wii.ign.com/articles/838/838286p1.html 129.120.159.176 (talk) 00:17, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Suspending play" section

Is the "Suspending play" section really necessary? It seems to me to be naught but a how-to guide. Just because one can provide sources for statements doesn't necessarily mean they need to be used. I thought I ought to mention this here before I deleted anything. SpinyMcSpleen (talk) 05:56, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

I think that, like a lot of other content in this article, the "suspending play" feature can be summarized in one or two sentences in the main body of the text. It's an important feature, but it doesn't need its own section or a lot of extraneous detail. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 07:10, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Suspending play section is valuable since it's not obvious that the virtual console can save games. 71.158.175.59 (talk) 19:23, 12 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Saving Games section

I'm un-reverting the section about saving games - there was no mention of what games could be saved, and the information about saving games on the wii console hardly exists anywhere on the net. It has been learned by experience. 71.158.175.59 (talk) 19:23, 12 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Master System, Game Gear, and Mark III Joining the Virtual Console

Source. Parrothead1983 (talk) 13:45, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

The above post is proof that some people don't bother checking an article first. I added this info over 8 HOURS before your post: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Virtual_Console&diff=186784177&oldid=186112836. Also the Mark III is just the Japanese name for the Master System (like the Famicom is the Japanese name of the NES). TJ Spyke 02:10, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Not quite. The SG-1000 MkIII is basically the same hardware as the Master System, but it's not quite accurate to say that they're the same thing with different names. The MkIII required extra hardware add-ons to do what the MS did out of the box, and the MS itself was later released in Japan in 1987. Kelvingreen (talk) 11:53, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
There, there, it costs nothing to say "Thanks, that is already in the article." ;-) -- ReyBrujo (talk) 02:55, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
I know. I am just sick of this happening in wrestling articles (a match will be added to the PPV article, and then hours later someone will post on the talkpage the same info which means they didn't check the article first). TJ Spyke 03:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Technically speaking, Sega Master System is the only one that should genuinely be considered joining the VC lineup. The MkIII and GG are little more than hardware variations of the SMS, and therefore their titles are considered part of the SMS library. Referring to the MkIII and SMS as individual platforms is just as redundant as making the same distinction between the GBA and GBA SP-- they're one of the same so mentioning both is unnecessary. As for Game Gear, since it was the exact same hardware only in a compact format, all its titles were essentially SMS games in the first place-- most of which were also SMS releases overseas (if not here as well). Basically, the only difference between SMS and GG games were portability. There are sure to be "SMS" games released via VC that were only previously released under the "Game Gear" name in some regions, but since they'll be running on a home console, and not a handheld they'll just be considered previously unreleased SMS titles. --76.212.224.227 (talk) 19:54, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
The Mark III is the same as the Master System, but the Game Gear is a totally seperate system. TJ Spyke 00:13, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
It is format-wise, but as far as actual hardware goes they're pretty much the same 8-bit hardware (aside from GG's support of stereo sound and a few other minor additions) . That's why so many GG games were SMS ports (or vise versa). In fact, they can barely be considered ports at all since the only conversion needed was a change of screen resolution size. Overall, the only definable difference between GG and SMS/MkIII games is that SMS/MkIII display games through a TV, whereas GG games are displayed on a screen built into the hardware. Basically, all 8-bit Sega games were interchangeable, and if a GG game isn't being played on a handheld, can it really still be considered a GG game... especially if said game was released on SMS in another region?

--24.154.105.181 (talk) 02:09, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Just because Sega chose to release most of their games on both the Master System and Game Gear doesn't make them the same system. You are trying to make it seem like Game Gear was just a portable Master System. Also, stop removing Game Gear from the pricing table, it is borderline-vandalism due to the fact that it is confirmed for the VC and is a seperate system. TJ Spyke 03:13, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Except it pretty much *is* a portable Master System. I believe there was even an adapter to let you plug SMS games into it. Liam Markham (talk) 23:41, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
The Game Gear was based on improved Master System technology, so it could play Master System software, but a Master System would not be able to play GG games, because it was inferior in minor, but significant ways. Kelvingreen (talk) 08:31, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
There was a Genesis adapter that let you play SMS games in it, a SNES adapter to let you play GB games, a Intellivision adapter to let you play Atari 2600 games, etc. Just because they were similar in tech doesn't make them the same system. TJ Spyke 01:04, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Which is also true of the Mark III and the Master System. Similar, and compatible, but not the same. Kelvingreen (talk) 08:29, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
The differences are so minor, it's the same way that the Famicom and NES are the same system even though Nintendo made minor tweaks between them (for example, the NES added support for RCA composite cables and had the 10NES security lockout added). TJ Spyke 09:35, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Commodore 64 games

Commodore 64 games will be available on the VC, the games will cost 500 Wii Points each. Source. Rhonin the wizard (talk) 12:43, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] UK prices

While points cards are often sold for £15, there are lots of places that sell them for £14 (such as Woolworths) or even higher (Zavvi charges £20!). The price charged online is consistent with the rest of the table, so I've narrowed it down to just that. Tim (Xevious) (talk)

We list what Nintendo has as the MSRP (or whatever the UK name for that is, I think RRP). TJ Spyke 16:50, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
It used to be RRP, but that was anti-competitive, so now it's S(uggested)RP or E(stimated)RP ... in any case, I've found three sources in the last week which give different ERPs (one at £13.99 [a trade brochure from Nintendo's distributor], one at £14 [an advert from Nintendo UK], one at £14.99 [play.com]) so I don't think we can really rely on any of them. Tim (Xevious) (talk) 10:14, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Virtual Boy Confirmed for VC

Said somewhere that links needed to be posted here first so here:

http://www.vc-reviews.com/news/2008/03/virtual_boy_confirmed_for_virtual_console RGamer2009 (talk) 03:13, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

April Fools' Day. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:55, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Commodore 64

I see that Commodore 64 is now in VC. It has 2 Games for now.International Karate and Uridium. Each 500 Points I think it should be updated now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.3.54.69 (talk) 16:34, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Already done. There is a mention of C64 being added for the European VC, and the corresponding list-of-games page has had those two games listed. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 18:35, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Close, but no cigar...

Being an avid retrogamer, I think it's great whenever "the classics" show up on modern consoles in any form. Unfortunately, advances in display technology mean that the "Virtual Console" will always be missing something.

A feature that was implemented in MAME and other emulators long ago is the ability to generate "scanlines" over the game graphics to simulate the appearance of a standard arcade monitor or analog TV. Like it or not, these games just don't look the same in hi-def, so unless you plug your Wii into an old analog set (which means using composite or S-Video connections at best), you're gonna see a lot of jagged edges and "stair-stepping" that raster "refresh interval" (or whatever those lines are called) smoothed out in the past.

I don't own a Wii, so I guess it's possible that the "scanlines" feature is available in the Virtual Console, but given the fact that the game graphics are stretched rather than being pillarboxed when the display is set to 16:9, I doubt the designers thought about scanlines. I certainly recognize the need for LEGAL emulation, but all the limits placed on users (~300MB available for games, high cost for games you can buy used for less, etc.) will probably just drive more people to MAME and/or MESS.

I'm getting rid of all my old analog consoles because they just don't look right hooked up to a hi-def LCD TV, and from here on out, that's what TVs are going to be... 16:9 LCD, plasma, or DLP displays. Without the option to overlay scanlines on the image, even games for the original PlayStation look kinda blocky in hi-def. As long as the legal, fully-licensed options are so limited and poorly done, projects like MAME, MESS, and other fan-created emulators will thrive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.254.10.80 (talk) 07:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Yah boo sucks. If you want your retro games to look like they did when you played them on an old CRT TV, then plug your Wii into an old CRT TV. You can use RGB SCART if you like. You seem to be complaining that you can't get a good picture out of the old TV types, and then complaining that the games weren't designed around a good picture. What an amazing revelation. Tim (Xevious) (talk) 09:38, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Not at all... I simply meant that with MAME you don't have to keep an old CRT around to get the same look. I can't stand CRTs... I mean there's an element of nostalgia, but the image distortion caused by the curved face of the tube, the weight and depth... no thanks. I just wanted to point out that for all the supposed greatness of the VC, emulation has been done much better and with far more authentic results for years. Most of the companies that own these old games are either out of business or have moved on to such bigger things that they don't give a rip about their old junk. Unlicensed emulation is for all intents and purposes a very light grey legal area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.254.10.80 (talk) 06:19, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Component Cable

Running a VC game over component cable, will that improve picture if played on a PAL Wii? If so, in what way? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.25.249.31 (talk) 20:52, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Not really the place to ask this question, but I would think you'd have the same experience with PAL component as with NTSC component. If I'm not mistaken, 480p looks and works the same on both. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 21:01, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Indeed, but in fact there is no PAL or NTSC over component. PAL or NTSC refer to the colour encoding that allows all colours to be sent across one wire; component has the colours split out. Tim (Xevious) (talk) 10:03, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Sorry about the wrong location. While it's still here though; Would that eliminate contingent borders as well then? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.25.249.31 (talk) 21:08, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Contingent borders? Not sure what you mean. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 21:10, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I mean the borders appearing on top and bottom of the screen of most VC games on PAL consoles.

I have no idea, then. Sorry. :/ — KieferSkunk (talk) — 21:32, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Even over component the VC games run at 576i in European territories, so the borders will remain. However, as the article says, most SNES games have been optomised to minimise the borders, as have N64 games, and the TurboGrafx games are in native 60 Hx 480i anyway so there are no borders there either. Tim (Xevious) (talk) 10:03, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I see. But would NTSC versions run at 480p using a component cable then? Or just 480i? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.25.249.31 (talk) 10:40, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I have no idea. I have a feeling that they're 480i only; I'll look next time I'm able to. Tim (Xevious) (talk) 13:52, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Alright. Thanks. If someone knows, I'd be happy to know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.25.249.31 (talk) 15:43, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

All Virtual Console games display in the current output mode of the Wii. For NTSC Wiis, if the setting is 480p over Component, the VC game will display in 480p as well. Whether the output is interlaced or not has nothing to do with the emulator running the original game - those games all use a display buffer that doesn't care how the signal is output to the screen.
I've confirmed this with the game "Bomberman '93" (TG-16) - my TV de-interlaces 480i signals, thus producing some horizontal artifacting when given a video signal at 60 frames per second. The intro sequence to this game includes a part where the whole screen shakes horizontally at 60 FPS. The objects on screen shake properly on an interlaced display, but appear to take on horizontal stripes on my TV in de-interlaced 480i. (In 480p, it shakes properly again.)
Does that help? — KieferSkunk (talk) — 23:01, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. A bit confused though. What is the difference between interlaced and de-interlaced? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.218.149.2 (talk) 08:25, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I stopped reading this discussion a while back, so I fell behind. Check out Interlace, which discusses the scan technique in general. A quick synopsis, tho: Interlacing means that the display scans across every other line at a time (does all the odd rows first, then all the even rows). This means that in a 480i signal (interlaced), you receive all odd lines first (1, 3, 5, 7, ... 479), then all even lines (2, 4, ... 480), and the entire display (all lines) takes 1/30th of a second to complete. It doesn't appear to flicker because of the interlacing, but effectively, you can either get 30 frames per second of high-resolution signal, or 60 frames per second of lower-resolution signal. On an interlaced display, this appears as a coherent image because the signal matches how it's being displayed.
In a 480p signal, however, you get all the lines in order (1, 2, 3, ... 480) at double the speed of a 480i signal. The entire screen refreshes at 60 times a second, which is part of why TVs must be specifically designed to display a Progressive signal in order to do so. Many such TVs will automatically "upscale" an interlaced signal to use the progressive display, so that it displays a whole screen at 60 frames per second, but only updates the particular set of rows being sent to it in the signal (the other set of rows remain at what they showed in the previous scan). This process is called "de-interlacing", and it results in the sort of image "shredding" I described above, like in the Bomberman '93 example.
Does that help a bit more? — KieferSkunk (talk) — 20:25, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
If only there was an online encyclopaedia on which you could look such stuff up ... Tim (Xevious) (talk) 09:52, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Um... you could try looking it up. :P — KieferSkunk (talk) — 20:25, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

"All Virtual Console games display in the current output mode of the Wii" So it will display in 480p on PAL Wii? I find it weird if it could do that on NTSC but not PAL. Or did you mean that playing over component (480p) doesnt matter for any region? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.25.249.31 (talk) 01:04, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

What I meant was that, to my knowledge, the Virtual Console displays at the same resolution as the Wii does in its default mode, whatever that happens to be for your region. If the Wii is set to display at 576i (PAL), then your VC games should also use that mode. I don't know what the actual display formats are in the PAL region - all the modes I've mentioned here have been in the NTSC region. Your mileage may vary. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 20:27, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
While Kiefer's correct for the US, he's not for Europe. The games you buy on the European VC are the original PAL versions of the games, which were rewritten to include other languages, and to display on a PAL (576-line) screen. Many games were simply shrunken down; some were properly PAL-optimised. Other then SNES and N64 games, all games are the original ones released in Europe - so those that were optimised will be full-screen; others will have borders. Because these all are designed for 576-line displays, they won't ever output at 480i or 480p, no matter what your Wii's set to. Tim (Xevious) (talk) 15:03, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Like I said, I don't know what the PAL equivalents of 480i and 480p are. Presumably 576i and 576p? Is there such a thing? And if so, is it true that if your Wii is set to progressive-scan mode, VC titles output in progressive mode as well? That's what I was trying to get at. :P — KieferSkunk (talk) — 15:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
There is such a thing as 576p, but I don't think anything has ever used it. It's not available on the PAL Wii - for progressive, you're restricted to 480p. So on the PAL Wii, you can choose 50Hz (576i), 60Hz (480i), or EDTV (480p). And here ends today's lesson!  :) Tim (Xevious) (talk) 15:26, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Ah, thanks for the clarification. What happens then if you set your Wii to EDTV (480p), then load up a PAL VC game? Does it stay in 480p or switch to 576i? I suppose it makes sense for it to mode-switch in that case because otherwise there wouldn't be enough physical resolution to display the game. (BTW, for anyone who wants to call "not a forum" on this conversation: This does have potential to improve the article.) — KieferSkunk (talk) — 18:22, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Keyboard as a controller

Shouldn't the USB keyboard be included as a controller, considering you can use it for Commodore 64 and MSX games. I know that no games from these platforms has been released in the States, but I think we should include it just for good ol' Blighty.  :-D. --Super Shy Guy Bros.Not shy? 21:25, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay, so I've updated the section. Please feel free to amend it if necessary. --Super Shy Guy Bros.Not shy? 21:37, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


Okay, so I was wrong about that. I've fixed the information. --Super Shy Guy Bros.Not shy? 18:13, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] No Virtual Console update week.

I think it should be made known that the week of May 12th, 2008 was the first week where there was no update of classic games put up for download on the Virtual Console. Of course this was because of the launching of the system's first Wii Ware games. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.124.190 (talk) 10:36, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup in Third Party Support section

I added a cleanup tag to the Third Party Support section to propose that we remove the list of third-party developers supporting the Virtual Console. This is basically just a list of information that isn't really very meaningful to someone not intimately familiar with the games that those companies are responsible for. It would be much better for us to mention in a general sense, "Virtual Console is supported by more than X third-party developers, including (particularly notable names with citations)." — KieferSkunk (talk) — 20:13, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Differences from original versions

I have put the following back in, why was it removed in the first place? I'm guessing I'm not the only one that sometimes determines what games to download based on what has changed from the original versions. Maybe someone (like me) wants to have all versions of a particular game, such as the version of Punch-Out!! that says "camera crew" (only on the VC) and the original version. In any case I feel that these facts regarding Punch-Out!! (which I added, with proof) and Zelda I and II, (which someone else originally added) are very relevant to this section.

The Virtual Console versions of The Legend of Zelda and Zelda II: The Adventure of Link are not the original NES releases, but instead the updated versions featured in 2003's The Legend of Zelda: Collector's Edition compilation disc for GameCube.

Punch-Out!! has at least one notable change from the NES version. One of Piston Honda's between-round quotes, on the NES version is as follows: "Where is the NHK TV Camera? Hello, Tokyo!". NHK is an actual broadcasting company in Japan, so (assumed due to copyright reasons) is replaced by "Where are my camera crew? Hello, Tokyo!"[1] in the Virtual Console version. This change, however was not made to the version of the game included in the GameCube Animal Crossing game.

Marioxb (talk) 17:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)June 10th, 2008, MarioXB