User talk:VincentValentine29

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[edit] Old Norse Orthography

Hello, I noticed your comment asking whether ö was properly transcribed as ǫ or ø. From what we have been taught in my Old Norse class, and according to my written sources, it is ǫ. I will try to fix it wherever I encounter it. Best, VincentValentine29 (talk) 03:17, 28 February 2008 (UTC).

Okay, thanks. These kind of things can come up when dealing with multiple similar transcription schemes. I've run into similar things when I started getting interested in Japanese. Except that Japanese is still widely spoken and I have a modern Japanese dictionary. Shinobu (talk) 18:03, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

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[edit] Old Norse in Finland

I saw your reversion of the anonymous adding of Finland to the region of Old Norse. The language of Finland was at that time obviously Finnish, but scandinavian/swedish settlements on the coastline have been continuous for a very long time, beginning between 700 and 1300, so Old Norse was in fact spoken in Finland. I didn't do anything about your reversion because this anonymous editor seems to be adding pro-finland-swedish little twists to other articles as well, and I don't feel like encouraging that. Of course most people feel that Finland is part of Scandinavia anyway, so the addition of Finland to the list isn't necessary. So, this is just in case you would like to know. Finnish source: Christian Carpelan, "Esihistorian vuosiluvut, ajoitukset ja kronologia" in "Ennen, Muinoin" ed. Riho Grünthal: SKS, Helsinki--AkselGerner (talk) 00:35, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

One thing to be aware of concerning the ethnic term finn is that it's use by medieval scandinavians actually refers to Saami. The use of Finn for what is now finnish (endonym is Suomi/Suomalainen) arises from a later misinterpretation of the roman chronicler (was it Tacitus... not sure) who described such a people with such a name, but the people he described were also clearly Saami. So the scandinavians mention of skrerefinn is thought to refer to skiing saami, apparently their skills on snow made quite an impression on the scandinavians.
BTW I can't be certain that all medieval scandinavians uses of "finn" refers to saami rather than suomi(endonym for Finnish people), there may have been some confusion. Also, there is speculation that the words Saami and Suomi have an identical source, which is also the name of an ancient finnish tribe, Hämäläiset (in which the initial s has turned into h) (who by Michael Agricola was claimed in his day and age to worship Väinämöinen), so confusion is understandable. Just didn't want to leave you with something that isn't certain. A bit later the finns were called tavastian by the swedes, and the saami were called lapps. The older meaning of finn can be seen in the norwegian northern areas called finnmark, that's a region where saami have lived perhaps for a thousand years, but not suomi.--AkselGerner (talk) 21:07, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
The finnish national epic Kalevala might be what you had in mind, it was gathered by Elias Lönnrot in the 1800s. The work is a collection of ancient mythical songs, at the time performed still by revered poemsingers, especially in far eastern Finland. The meter of the verses is eight syllables in each line, with dynamics arising out of the only the first syllable in a word being stressed, so that stresses occur variably. It contains a number of plot-lines but the main plotline concerns the Old Man Väinämöinen, a powerful song-wizard and warrior coming to Finland and singing into order various features of the land, the smith Ilmarinen who crafted out of nothing the Sampo, a source of unending prosperity. Sampo then was given to Louhi, the witch-ruler of a neighbouring people in exchange for her daughters hand in marriage to Ilmarinen. Later, after the untimely death of the wife of Ilmarinen, Väinämöinen decides to go rob back Sampo. This succeeds at first but Louhi attacks the boat of the robbers in the form of a great bird carrying soldiers on her back, and in the battle Sampo is broken and falls into the sea. Other stories worth mentioning is that of Lemminkäinen, enemy of Louhi, who after being killed and thrown in the river of Tuonela is gathered from its waters by his mother bit by bit and brought to life with a song and the salve of the creator. Also there is the story of the man who brings about the death of Ilmarinens wife, a cursed man of great strength and power but who suffers constantly from ill fortune and brings destruction to all around him, sometimes on purpose. His story is the very clear source for the climax of Tolkiens story of the children of Hurin, namely Turin Turambar. Parts of the story is in fact identical, specifically the suicide of Turin.
As for the exclusion of Finland, there's no enmity between Denmark and Finland. Some apparently use an ethnic definition, in which Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Faroes and Iceland are grouped together. Others seem to make no differentiation between Nordic and Scandinavian, and therefore including Finland. Of course, scandinavia is named for the scandinavian peninsula, and Denmark is no longer represented there (after the loss of scania, halland and blekinge to sweden) and so could also potentially be excluded , leaving only Norway and Sweden.--AkselGerner (talk) 21:55, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

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[edit] Memento mori

Hi Vincent, re "memento mori" – the literal translation does not quite work out. "Remember to die" sounds like something someone has to remember to do, something that they have to want to do in order for them not to fail to do it. For example, take the instruction "remember to buy a pint of milk" – buying a pint of milk is a voluntary thing, the person spoken to can either do it, or not. With dying, this is not the case; dying is not a voluntary thing, but something that is bound to happen to each of us. The Latin construction memento + infinitive (mori is the infinitive of morior) does not mean "remember to ..." here, but "remember that ...". The verb memini, of which memento is an imperative form, takes the accusativum cum infinitivo construction, for example in "suffixum in summa me memini esse cruce" – "I remember that I was affixed to the top of the cross"; it does not mean "*I am remembering that I must get myself hanged on the cross". English has a similar construction in conjunction with the verb "to see", as in "I saw him hang on the cross", but with "to remember", English does not use the a.c.i. construction, but a gerund construction: "I remember him hanging on the cross" (not *I remember him hang on the cross). So the literal translation of "memento mori" is "remember dying"; if the (implicit) accusative object were included, it would be "memento te mori" (remember your dying), but for brevity and elegance, this is dropped from the Latin phrase. At any rate, this is how far my Latin grammar takes me. Cheers, Jayen466 12:11, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jamie Carragher

Sorry, I reverted and re-checked on the lfc site they were posting at 518(4) but when it came to updating your figures (13-3-08) - I slinked away. me bad, I did see and scream. forgive me :-) BpEps - t@lk 02:09, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Old Norwegian Merger

I put this in that discussion, but I would like your input on it and nobody seems to read or respond to that talk ATM.

I thought of something that might make more people happy than the proposed merge would. Why not cut Old Norse down a bit (it's extremely long, 40kb is long in wikipedia, this is 50% more than that) by making an article "Old Norse Languages" in which Old Icelandic, Old Norwegian, Old Danish, Old Swedish and Old Gnutish can be treated together, separate from the "common norse" but still handled together, so that the developments can be related to each other. That article should then heavily refer to the known documents of these languages, and should draw up the ways that differences and similarities line up, because they do not always follow that East Norse/West Norse split. A large amount of prose can be lifted straight from Old Norse and Old Norwegian can then be merged to the new article. This also allows for the handling of the "middle norwegian" and the other medieval norse languages because the term "Old Norse Languages" can arguably apply also to medieval forms whether they are called "Old" or "Middle" or whatever. Please let me know what you think. I personally feel that this would be a good compromise. I also think my proposed article will be a lot easier to write than the Old Norwegian article has shown itself to be (see that article's talk page for my critique) because the changes can be related to those of the other languages, everything can be put into it's true context.--AkselGerner (talk) 23:19, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

What do you think? --AkselGerner (talk) 23:31, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Horned Helmets

I meant this kind of horns, or wings.
I meant this kind of horns, or wings.

No, I didn't confuse the Teutons with Vikings. So, it was meant to make them look tough, in my case they have succeeded. It's a shame horns were not used in combat, they would have scared many soldiers, don't you think? Thanks for your explaination Mallerd (talk) 05:53, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

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[edit] UEFA Cup

Hello. I notice you reverted my rollback [1]. The version you reverted to has information not reflected in the sourced provided. If you wish to revert again, please provide appropriate sources. Thanks. Rockpocket 00:15, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry. Ignore that. It looks like I accidentally rolled back the wrong version. My apologies again. Rockpocket 00:19, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

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