Talk:Vinegar

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[edit] Main component

The article states, "Acetic acid (the main component of vinegar)." This is untrue. Water is the main component - though I don't know whether it is ever sold concentrated above 50% acetic acid. In most cases, acetic acid is the main active ingredient in vinegar, and this statement should be clarified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.204.211.10 (talk) 14:46, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vinegar drunkness

A now-deleted article, archived (with history) at Talk:Vinegar/Vinegar drunkness, was the source of content now included in this article. don't drink tuns of vinegar because it can dry your blood out and it's not healthy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.18.90.54 (talk) 16:38, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] sense?

Can anyone explain what exactly this statement in the article is supposed to mean?

"A recorded use of vinegar as with the nursery rhyme Jack and Jill. As with all nursery rhymes there is truth in the story and this one comes from the village of Kilmersdon in Somerset. The vinegar and brown paper used would have been cider."

What???

Hmm... It obviously has no sense and should probably be removed. Chronos 21:53, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
A Google search shows that this is part of the Jack and Jill nursery rhyme. I didn't remember it from my childhood but it's there: "...went to bed and bound his head With vinegar and brown paper." Looks like it was some kind of remedy for an injury. Although perhaps not written very clearly, it seems like a valid point. Badagnani 22:15, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone know anythin about the surname Aceto or Acito?

[edit] Nutrional value

What nutrional value does vinegar have? Is it good for you? I consume lots of balsamic vinegar so I would like to know. - Beans

At http://www.skeptics.com.au/journal/1996/1_vinegar.pdf it says: "Vinegar is a lousy source of essential nutrients. In fact, the Nutritional Value of Australian Foods, the US Department of Agriculture and the British food tables, McCance & Widdowson, all list vinegar as having no fibre (therefore no pectin), no vitamins (therefore no beta carotene), only a mere trace of calcium or iron, and the same amount of protein and amino acids as you will find in one teaspoon of bread crumbs or less (USDA claims nil protein - the number may have been rounded down)." - Barrylb 3 July 2005 07:25 (UTC)
I know that if you look at the nutritional facts of balsamic vinegar, there is quite a bit of sugar in there. I would believe that those traces of calcium and iron might have come from the manufacturing process. Keep in mind that vinegar is merely a product of fermentation, it's a by-product. It is a little bit like consuming micro-organism urine. - User:LongWalkShortPier 26 May 2006

Vinegar is microorganism urine, just like, wine, beer, bread etc...

Vinegar does not contain a lot of sugar. However, acetic acid has a caloric value of about 3.5 calories per gram (4.5 for sugar).

[edit] White Vinegar

I removed the statement "White vinegar can be made by distilling ordinary vinegar". On http://www.nowheat.com/fooddb/food/vinegar2.htm it suggests that white vinegar is NOT made by distilling vinegar. Rather it is made like any other vinegar (oxidation of alcohol to acetic acid using bacteria) but it uses distilled alcohol as the input. - Barrylb 15:02, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Correct -- it's the Everclear of vinegars. JD79 20:44, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Beer Vinegar"

How is beer vinegar different from malt vinegar? Both are made from malted grains. - JD79 16:09, 13 Aug 2005 (EST)

That's a good question. As far as I can tell, beer vinegar is a very rare product. I just got a bottle of it and it is produced in Germany. The makers recommend drinking a glass of beer with whatever recipes it's used in. In my opinion the taste is actually not malty but sharp, very acidic, and not complex. It seems to be distilled from a light kind of beer as the color is a very pale yellow. I'm not sure that malt vinegar is made from actual finished beer (as is beer vinegar) but probably from what beer makers would call "wort." Thus malt vinegar wouldn't have hops in it. Malt vinegar is darker in color (a light-to-medium brown) and the taste, to my mind, is mellower than that of beer vinegar. It seems that malt vinegar has a longer history of production and from my research I'm not convinced that beer vinegar is an ancient, traditional product but it very well may be. Since it seems to be a regional thing, probably the best way to research this is to talk to beer vinegar conoisseurs from the German regions where it's produced, or to write to the companies and ask for more details about the product. But almost certainly it's a separate entity from malt vinegar. Badagnani 20:52, 13 August 2005


Good enough for me! JD79

[edit] Vinegar drunkeness

I removed the below paragraph. I've never heard of someone abusing vinegar before. Cite your sources —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arm (talk • contribs) 15:58, 25 May 2005

Vinegar as an intoxicant

NOTE: In the U.S., vinegar is limited to 5% acetic acid. Not so everywhere. Acetic acid is poisonous in large doses and is responsible for many accidental deaths among children and by suicides.

Excess consumption of vinegar or acetic acid causes a form of intoxication, similar to alcohol intoxication. Besides symptoms of intoxication, other symptoms include diarrhea, sleepiness, and unusual hunger. Vinegar is sometimes used as a substitute for alcohol in underage people. The above statement is absolutely false. --—Preceding unsigned comment added by Vinegarman (talk • contribs)

I could find no web matches at all for "Vinegar drunkness", "Vinegar drunkeness", or "Vinegar intoxication", so I think the second part is probably a hoax. The first part (about the poison stuff) is probably true, though. Noel (talk) 9 July 2005 15:10 (UTC)

You can't rule out that youth are drinking vinegar for recreational purposes. Yes, they probably don't like the diarrhea, but kids these days are getting high off of suffocation. Need I say more?

Regarding alcohol content, the section under wine vinegar says that wine is contained in wine vinegar. Using sets from Math, if wine vinegar contains wine and (wine contains alcohol), then wine vinegar contains alcohol. However, it could be that the term wine could be a "non-alcoholic wine? if exists? a near-Wine? Checked for alcohol content on one bottle but it was not disclosed apparently. Maybe there is a certain level of content for it to be disclosed. Waiting an expert on the subject to interject. --Bammon 20:09, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Of course the wine used for making wine winegar is alcoholic: without alcohol you cannot produce acetic acid, as it is written in the introduction. However, since the alcohol in wine is transformed in acetic acid (by oxidation), it follows that no or just traces of alcohol are contained in vinegar. >>>it's not math, it's chemistry. BTW: I haven't ever heard about people getting high from vinegar, if they do it's not because of some alcohol. Plch 23:02, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Not sure how sets are disregarded; however, my observation had the states misinterpreted from the article. "Made from" and "contains" are two different things in the usage, my error, but that's why I put it to question. Certainly when a substance is defined as being quantified into percentage of its components, sets are being used whether calling it the discipline(?) known as chemistry or not. The chemical part comes in when the states are changing in time due to reactions as said. --Bammon 14:57, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleaning

There is mention that one teaspon of liquid soap could be added to a cleaning mixture consisting of one part vinegar to x parts of water. This should be cleared up to make it all ratios or all exact measurements.

It can be used to cean mirrors, coffee machines, and other appliances. I wouldnt try it on everything though,I would also try a store brand vinegar cleaner, if your not sure, since the vinegar is diluted with other cleaning chemicals.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.125.80.180 (talk) 04:48, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] TOC

I've removed the word "vinegar" from almost all the subheading titles under Types. It makes the table of contents easier to read. Melchoir 23:22, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] halal?

I read that vinegar is halal. Isn't it produced from substances containing alcohol? --Pravit 20:38, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Vinegar does not contain any intoxicating qualities and for that reason, it is not forbidden [1] --GalFisk 20:37, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vinegar's pH

I've added a pH mention to the article, but according to PH, vinegar has a pH of around 2.9 and according to acetic acid it should be around 2.4. Perhaps we should put a range instead of a fixed pH? Chronos 23:40, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

The pH of vinegar is a simple calculation using the Ka of acetic acid. At 5% concentration per volume, the pH is 2.4. This should not require a citation.--Ngoshn (talk) 01:28, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

If the pH of vinegar is something that needs a citation, perhaps the source for the chemical properties of acetic acid should be cited.--Ngoshn (talk) 01:40, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pale Complextion from vinegar consumption

Here's a website that shows that Lord Byron's lengths to get pale skin was the trend of the times:

[2]

Okay, so he is not of the Victorian era. However, the pale skin ideal certainly existed during his times.


[edit] How does vinegar benefit our body? POV

I think the issue with this section isn't really neutrality or fact citations; it's that the section isn't really about vinegar. It talks generally about internal pH and specifically citrus. So I'd suggest merging that section somewhere else, but I can't figure out where - seems like somewhere like Nutrition?Lisamh 16:12, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

It's beyond NPOV, it's positively silly. "if your body is acidic, disease can flourish; if it is alkaline, it is in balance and can fight off germs and ailments." I'm pretty confident that if your blood pH is > 7, you need not worry about diseases.... 'cause you'll be dead. The section isn't even written in the appropriate tone (the section title is in second person, for example). I'm just removing it. Derobert 07:23, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Under "Medicinal..." could we group the cider vinegar bullets together? They are numerous, but dispersed throughout this section.Anthronify 19:49, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] vitamin C?

Do some kinds of vinegar have vitamin C? It thought I remembered something about vinegar being used on ships to prevent scurvey. --Gbleem 18:23, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mother of vinegar

Why was "yeast" removed from the components of mother of vinegar? Badagnani 23:57, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Change to "food"

Someone has just changed the header paragraph to say that vinegar is a "food." However, it is used for other purposes as well. I suggest rewording this, perhaps to the original wording that it is a dilute solution of acetic acid (used primarily as a food, condiment, and ingredient, but also for other purposes: medicinal, cleaning, etc.). Badagnani 00:00, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] removal of Shaw's vinegar picture

I don't buy vinegar with leafy things floating in it. I'm not sure if illustration is representative of how most people buy vinegar. Purhaps a someone could take a picture showing different kinds of vingar with the brand names blurred out. --Gbleem 14:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vinegar in language?

It might be worthy of note its use in popular saying, good and ill.

"Full of piss and vinegar" "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." "He cries wine and sells vinegar"

24.119.92.99 16:45, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Slight problem with first sentence

The first sentence of this article currently reads like this:

"Vinegar is a liquid produced by the fermentation of alcohol be acetic acid free other fermentation by-products."

A mangled edit, perhaps? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 161.184.54.129 (talk) 02:06, 30 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Kombucha

The section on Kombucha vinegar has two possible spelling erros.

It uses Kombucha vinigar in the first section, and "vinegar" seems more correct.

It also uses the word "vinigr" and that seems even a worse spelling.

I did a few google searches and vinegar seems correct. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.241.170.87 (talk) 04:01, 31 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Formula

Could we get some more info under the chemical properties part? The article seems to be lacking some encyclopedic info there. --Wavemaster447 23:12, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kombucha Ad

The section on Kombucha is worded like an advertisement, not encyclopedia entry. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 140.32.73.53 (talk) 18:12, 11 May 2007 (UTC).


[edit] Discovery ?

There is no reference to Persoon in this article.

While Louis Pasteur established in 1864 the formula of acetic fermentation C2H5OH + O2 ←→ C2H4O2 + H2O + 348 kJ, it is the dutch botanist Persoon who first, in 1822, determined the action of Acetobacter suboxydans bactery (which he called Mycoderma aceti) in the oxydation of alcohol, resulting in acetification.

[edit] Heated Vinegar

Someone should add something on what happens to vinegar when it is heated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.108.6.28 (talk) 21:40, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dubious

An editor using an IP from Brown University added a sentence about sugar and corn syrup being used as stabilizers in wine vinegar, they made this post immediately after another IP from the same university made a crude vandalism. Add that to that I've never heard of vinegar getting extra sugar, and I think the statement is dubious. I imagine some on this page will no better than I do, though. Ashanda (talk) 05:13, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I see that Murgh (talk · contribs) has deleted the sentence in question. Thanks! Ashanda (talk) 14:42, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dangers of Cider Vinegar

Added a sub-section with this title - includes an abstract indexed on Pubmed 325jdc (talk) 11:06, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] External Refs

Was a bit surprised to see commercial links in the exteral refs section. Also, the majority of refs were uncritical. Have added a link to findarticles dot com 325jdc (talk) 11:09, 2 May 2008 (UTC)