Talk:Vincent van Gogh chronology

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Contents

[edit] Layout

As number of years is going to produce a very long TOC, I thought the layout of these two articles might be a useful model: Donner Party timeline, Timeline of Fairuz. Maybe main divisions based on the Vincent van Gogh article would be useful.

1 Biography
1.1 Early life (1853 - 1869)
1.2 Art dealer and preacher (1869 - 1878)
1.3 Borinage and Brussels (1878 - 1880)
1.4 Etten (1881)
1.5 The Hague and Drenthe (1881 - 1883)
1.6 Nuenen (1883 - 1885)
1.7 Antwerp (1885 - 1886)
1.8 Paris (1886 - 1888)
1.9 Arles (February 1888 - May 1889)
1.10 Saint-Rémy (May 1889 - May 1890)
1.11 Auvers-sur-Oise (May - July 1890)

Tyrenius 19:29, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

A good idea,especially for a quick check. But I would suggest to keep the constant flow of years, too. Probably a bit more of work, but in the end very instructive. --R.P.D. 20:04, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I was suggesting using these divisions to break up the long list of years, but still keeping the list of years within those main headings, but this is only a suggestion. Tyrenius 20:34, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

If Stumps agrees, then I can begin with this. At present there an edit conflict between some recent additions I did and someone else. --R.P.D. 20:40, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I've been giving this some thought ... I am still not sure. One of the main reasons I felt the need for this page was to clarify where Van Gogh was at any particular date. If we put a heading for every location we would have about 30 headings, and some of them would be contentious — for example which address in the Borinage when, how many trips back to Etten — and if we follow the main article's sort of heading structure then we possibly somewhat obscure the issue. As it is a chronology I'd be tempted to leave it structured by year alone, but this is not a particularly strong opinion. As I said ... I am still not sure. Stumps 01:04, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Let's leave it then. Tyrenius 01:30, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
I have hand-crafted a compact TOC ... perhaps this alleviates one of the concerns? Stumps 08:20, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Neat. I was trying to find one to do that, but couldn't! Tyrenius 22:16, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some remarks

1873: Vincents short visit to Paris was evidently some kind of gratification, to see the headquarters and the Salon; but evidently the transfer to London was the prime purpose, others included: to experience traveling for Goupil etc. - More important: In November, Theo was called to the Hague, too.

1875: Goupil was renamed to Boussod, Valadon & Cie in 1884, not earlier. --R.P.D. 21:36, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Paris: Wilkie's stuff about the woman 'S' ???

I see that Wilkie (pages 28 - 33), basing his text on an interview with Andries Bonger's widow, Françoise Bonger, Baroness van der Borch van Verwolde, writes of a woman only referred to as 'S', whom was supposedly living with Theo when Vincent arrived, who was "highly strung, mentally unstable, and physically ill," that Vincent didn't approve of Theo's match, that he was worried that S might commit suicide if Theo tuirned her out, and Vincent offered to take her off his hands, which idea Theo didn't warm to. I think that's the gist of Wilkie's account. Is there any other source which mentions this woman?? Does anybody know more on this? Stumps 08:37, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Wilkie's main source is the letter of Vincent and Andries Bonger to Theo (460), his "interview" with Bonger's second wife gives little more information than supplied there. --R.P.D. 20:07, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Visits to Amsterdam and The Hague Nov/Dec 81

I think the Mauve visit can't have been 27 November as I think he must have been in Amsterdam on that date, as follows:

  • 161, Etten 23 Nov 81: "But I am in terrible suspense and am quite ready to go to Amsterdam"
  • 162, The Hague, 1-3 Dec 81
  • 164, Etten 21 Dec 81: "And so it was that on a Sunday morning I went to see J. P. S. for the last time"

Or have I got something wrong?? Stumps 13:50, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Vincent arrived in the Hague on a Sunday, at 7 in the evening (162), evidently coming from Haarlem, where he had visited his sister Wil. When he arrived in Amsterdam, Strickers brought him to a cheap hotel, where he spent 3 days, before he went to see uncle Stricker the last time, on a Sunday morning (164). His trip lasted about 3 weeks in all (163).
There are 2 sundays to be considered:
  • November 27 - implying an arrival in Amsterdam on November 24
  • December 4 - implying an arrival in Amsterdam on December 1
As he was waiting for an answer on his letter to Stricker/Kee by November 23 (161), I would go for the 2nd scenario. --R.P.D. 15:42, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Expansion to 1891?

Its more or less impossible to separate the lifes of Vincent and Theo van Gogh. I think this is already clear from the present state of the chronology. Therefore, why not to expand it up to Theo's death, January 1891, and to rename it accordingly? --R.P.D. 09:45, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree - expand, but I don't think there's any need to rename the chronology, as it's obviously all centred on VG's life. If you want, it can even go into posthumous stuff with exhbitions etc.! Tyrenius 07:08, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes, let's start putting in posthumous material ... early exhibitions, recent significant auction sales and prices ... if it gets too unwieldy we can always separate it out later. I also think we should keep the name unchanged for now. Stumps 08:21, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I propose to concentrate on exhibitions before 1914, for a start. As for auction sales & prices, I would go for a separate list, or better: a table. --R.P.D. 15:44, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Today, I gave it another thought: the VG chronology is already now all but handsome, and it will get it more and more, if the references are completed. Therefore, I would go for a split between Vincent and Theo van Gogh's lifes and the impact of Vincent's work in the years following their deaths. And I think now is the time for this decision.--R.P.D. 03:09, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
This seems reasonable. What would the two pages be called? 'Vincent van Gogh chronology' and 'Vincent van Gogh posthumous chronology' perhaps??? Stumps 07:47, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, and I would propose to separate 'Vincent van Gogh sales at auction', for these prices set the pace on the artmarket in general since c. 1912. --R.P.D. 14:33, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sample wiki timeline generated image

I've just discovered this 'timeline' facility ... it's a bit crude, and I can't make it look particularly pleasant yet. But I'd thought I'd put an example here, just so we remember that something like this is also possible ... if the image could be nicer, more accurate, and more compact then it might be nice to have at the bottom of the article??

Anyhow, I've put it here for the moment so I don't forget how to do it!! Stumps 14:20, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Here's another approach ...



At least it is more compact! Stumps 14:36, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The top one seems impractical, but the bottom one could work as a simplified timeline - a summary of the main article, maybe on its own page as Vincent van Gogh timeline, as I think it's going to make the article too long if it's at the bottom of it. Tyrenius 04:25, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] THANK YOU!

Thank you Wikipedia! I have been searching HIGH AND LOW to find when Starry Night was painted, and when i came to this sight, it was very easy to find! I also found other things that were helpful to me! THANK YOU! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.27.28.131 (talk) 00:06, 10 February 2008 (UTC)