Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 5

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[edit] Mianwali

Is it just me, or are the coordinates at the top of the Mianwali page showing up twice, slightly overlaying? I'm using IE7. Corvus cornix 00:11, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not just you... {{coord}} was being called in the article itself, but it's also a part of {{Infobox City Pakistan}}. I removed the article instance. EVula // talk // ☯ // 00:16, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh, good, I thought it was my eyes.  :) Corvus cornix 00:18, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Had it been April 1st, I would have been sorely tempted to say that it was. ;) EVula // talk // ☯ // 00:20, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template:0

The above template seems to have either disappeared or (according to the page it now aims at) is suddenly a bad title. This was/is a spacing template that was used on thousands of articles when right aligning numbers in columns in infoboxes. Is there a reason for this suddenly disappearing/not working that anyone knows of? Is there a replacement? 86.21.74.40 02:16, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

This has also happened to the mainspace http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0. Template:0/doc still displays. There are also problems in other tested languages http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorlage:0 (German template) doesn't work but the article http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/0 works. I write full URL's because wikilinks to pages called 0 are also misbehaving. For example, the wikilink 0 gives the URL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ which goes to the main page. PrimeHunter 02:39, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/0 does not work, if you translate the page, you will see it is the bad title message, as we get on the English page. Prodego ^talk 03:02, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Gently, Prodego. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/0 goes to an article for 0; there is no problem there, even when using google to translate the page. --Malcolmxl5 03:27, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry bout that, I am in a dramatic mood. And it wasn't working at the time of my comment, though bolding may be a bit too much force for the situation. Perhaps italics... Prodego ^talk 03:58, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

The developers are aware of the problem; if it isn't fixed by tomorrow, someone should bug them again. At the moment, even 0 is broken. — Carl (CBM · talk) 03:28, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

All better. --MZMcBride 03:54, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Looks like this was a bug in our localization code; a recent change caused capitalizing the first letter of "0" to return an empty string. Seems to have been fixed in rev:27448. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 04:02, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed deletion of article - don't understand charges of POV and COI - please explain to me

I just wrote Barry Cohen (attorney) as a beginning article. Now I am being told it is going to be deleted because it has POV and COI issues. Please explain these to me. The article has 9 footnote citations and the subject appeared on Larry King Live. Further, I just started the article. I have to leave for a while. Please don't let them delete it while I am gone! Thanks! Mattisse 23:00, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Would this not be better placed at somewhere like EAR? Adrian M. H. 23:19, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Treygdor tagged it for speedy deletion. Jody B disagreed with that and changed it to prod. Another user removed the prod tag. So it appears, if this is to be deleted, it won't be deleted without a full on AfD discussion (which takes a minimum of 5 days in most cases), and even that seems unlikely at this point. -Andrew c ^[talk] 23:56, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! Mattisse 02:11, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Substitution with parser functions and magic words

I'm trying to do something similar to the following:

{{subst:#ifeq:{{LOCALYEAR}}|2007|yes|no}}

It gives no, but I was expecting it to give yes. This seems similar to the behavior described at m:Help:Substitution#Attempts of direct substitution. Is there a bug here, or is the behavior correct? --- RockMFR 18:41, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Judging from the help page, that seems like a known bug. Try:

 {{subst:#ifeq:{{a|LOCALYEAR}}|2007|yes|no}}

(edit) Never mind, that doesn't work either. — Edokter • Talk • 18:49, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

• Use {{subst:#ifeq:{{subst:LOCALYEAR}}|2007|yes|no}}. The problem you were running into was that it was comparing the text {{LOCALYEAR}} to 2007, rather than evaluating the year to 2007 and then recognizing them as matching. It's a flaw in the way substitution works. Substitution with parserfunctions can be hellishly convoluted, but the general rule of thumb is 'if you see {{ put subst: after it'. Doesn't matter whether it is a parserfunction, template call, variable, or whatever... if it has two curly braces substitute it. That'll steer you around 95% of the problems. --CBD 23:10, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

  Ahh. Thanks. This seems to work :) --- RockMFR 19:39, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Founder?

Err, what is up with the "Founder" right? Does it do anything, is it simply egotistical cosmetic :P or what? Prodego ^talk 21:39, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Someone was complaining the other day about there being a steward -- and only one steward -- on enwiki. It was decided Jimbo had the "Steward" designation here to indicate that he was the founder, etc. I presume this was some sort of compromise to give him the designation without the confusion of "steward". Dunno .. don't care much for it myself :) AmiDaniel (talk) 23:53, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

whistles. Prodego ^talk 00:24, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Darest thou coughwhistle at the Almighty? AmiDaniel (talk) 08:16, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Colored table borders and IE7

See also User talk:Aheyfromhome#UEFA Cup 2007-08 and the reply at User talk:MTC#Re:Uefa Cup 2007-08. It seems IE7 doesn't understand the code used to display green table borders on this article and presumably any other articles that use colored table borders too, any idea how to make them work with IE? - MTC 15:55, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately IE still doesn't support borders on table rows. One workaround would be to apply the border to each individual cell in the row, though that would give you pretty messy code. Another would be to create a small blank row in between the other two, with a green background. But it doesn't look quite so nice unfortunately. The code to add for it would be something like this:

|- style="height: 3px; background: green;"
| || || || || || || || ||

-- DatRoot 16:26, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Banner

It is saying: $progress, You can help meta change the world!, $donate, etc. *twiddle thumbs* User:Veesicle 07:15, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Must have been a random glitch or something, as it appears just fine for me. EVula // talk // ☯ // 07:22, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I've seen things like this (with variables like $donate showing up) at both my home PC and various public PCs over several days now. It's all very well if people insist on us having a directly updated banner, but it'd be nice if it worked consistently. Or it just makes us look stupid. User:Veesicle 07:30, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Did you see this on the metawiki or on Wikipedia? I've only come across the glitch on meta, never on any other wiki. AmiDaniel (talk) 20:16, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Here. I never use any other wiki. User:Veesicle 19:14, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] StatusBot

Am I the only one who sees thousands "status changing" edits by Chris G Bot 3 (approval) (which replaced StatusBot (approval)) as totallly unnecessary load on servers? ∴ AlexSm 18:05, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't see what benefit comes from this bot whatsoever. Corvus cornix 18:54, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Right, it's not very useful. But apparently a fair amount of users like it, and it adds the same server load as all those users updating their status themselves (and it is more convenient). So I would suggest not worrying about performance here, given no real need to. There are less than 200 bytes of POST data sent to the server with each of the bots' edits—compare this to the incalculably massive number of bytes that are wasted everyday due to most calculations of vandalism reversion taking place client-side. Not to mention that much of the user namespace could be considered a large pointless body of server resources waste (especially given rampant abuse of fun with transclusion). Perhaps this notion only seems scary when it's consolidated by a bot. What the bot does to the poor servers is minimal; if anything, the issue should be how useful the bot's function is. If community consensus can be changed on that issue (doubtful), then it goes out of business. Gracenotes^T § 22:02, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Please set up the wiki first."

Just got this for a page: "The MediaWiki logo | MediaWiki 1.12alpha | Please set up the wiki first."

I hope they're soon done getting this wiki started. Imagine, an encyclopedia that anyone can edit, could be the beginning of something big, don't you think? 77.183.87.32 11:40, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

At which address did you see that? Maybe it wasn't at wikipedia.org but somebody else making a wiki with the MediaWiki software, for example http://wikible.org/mediawiki/ which currently contains what you said. PrimeHunter 14:57, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I typed something into the sidebar searchbox of another article at en.wikipedia.org. No stray google search result or something like that. A genuine, fleeting, - yet mildly amusing - glitch. :) 77.183.87.32 16:03, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Someone else commented that they got this temporarily. Just a guess: LocalSettings / CommonSettings was likely being synchronized, and somewhere in the infinitely small amount of time that those files disappeared / were unreadable, you requested a page. In any case, I don't think it's any reason for concern :). AmiDaniel (talk) 20:13, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Probably. That happened to me the other day on wikisource :) SQL^{Query me!} 05:49, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] File history

I'm trying to look at a deleted image, but it only gives me the page history (i.e. the deleted text). There should be a "File history" section with a list of versions, and from there I can view the deleted image, but I'm not seeing it. Actually, "File history" works for some images and doesn't appear at all for others. Thanks, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:06, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Likely deleted when image deletion was still permanent. What's the image? —Cryptic 20:09, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Ah, perhaps (though I can't remember when that was). Image:NHS Commisary.jpg was deleted 31 March 2006. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:12, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Mid-June 2006, looks like. —Cryptic 20:18, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GIF images

Why I can't see GIF images in Wikipedia? I only see the first frame of the image. I use Firefox, but I've tried with Internet Explorer 7 and it doesn't show the GIF images correctly. I have this problem only here in Wikipedia, because I can see GIF animations in other websites. Armando.O^{talk • Ev} 00:25, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

They work for me.... Is there a particular image that's giving you trouble? —EncMstr 00:28, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I can't see any GIF image correctly. Armando.O^{talk • Ev} 00:35, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

How about the illustration in Bascule bridge? Do you have any Firefox add ons which might interfere? Is it possible there's an added .GIF handler? Check Tools -> Options | Content -> Manage. In mine, there is no .GIF entry. —EncMstr 00:41, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Nope. Nothing. I can't see GIF images in Commons either. This is rare because I can see GIF animations correctly everywhere but Wikipedia. Armando.O^{talk • Ev} 00:45, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

How about Tools -> Options | Content -> Load images automatically | Exceptions: maybe wikipedia is listed (or not listed)? —EncMstr 00:48, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Nope, that's not the problem. I've checked it and it's OK. I can see other image types (JPG, PNG), but I can only see the first frame of GIFs, and as I've alredy said, I've got that problem only here in Wikipedia (and Commons too). Armando.O^{talk • Ev} 00:58, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

What about when you view the image directly, not in a web page [1]? Tra (Talk) 01:07, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I've tried that too, but it doesn't work either. Armando.O^{talk • Ev} 01:22, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Check in "about:config" what the value of "image.animation_mode" is; mine is set to "once", I'm not sure about other possible options. - Erik Baas 16:15, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Where is that???? Armando.O^{talk • Ev} 20:04, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Type "about:config" in the URL bar (in Firefox). AmiDaniel (talk) 23:06, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Default, string, normal. I think that's OK. Plz help!!! Armando.O^{talk • Ev} 23:37, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] JavaScript warning

If a message on your talk page led you here, please be wary of who left it.

Am I mistaken in thinking that a) JavaScript files in your own userspace can only be edited by you yourself and are therefore safe and b) other JavaScript files will only get executed if you preview them or link to them (directly or indirectly) from your own monobook? I'm guessing "no", which means that the warning is both inadequate, misleading and, most of the time, superfluous. Shinobu 08:33, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Care to suggest an alternative? AmiDaniel (talk) 08:57, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

It's a warning agains people trying to get you to copy malicious code to your own monobook.js. No script is ever save, unless you know where it comes from. — Edokter • Talk • 12:41, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not at all sure that the way the warning is worded is useful. The point was to stop vandals spamming people's talk pages and saying 'please install this script', linking to a malicious script, but it doesn't even accomplish that task very well because the message only shows up after the script has already been saved if the page was a redlink beforehand (and it usually is with new users, who are the only ones likely to fall for such a trick). This security fix probably needs to be better thought through. --ais523 13:47, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, if I go to User:Gerbrant/doesn't exist.js I see no warning at all. How about this?

For empty js pages in your own user space, display something like:

If a message on your talk page asked you to paste some script here, please be ware of who left it. and then the warning about user scripts and what they can and cannot do

For non-empty js pages in your own user space, display nothing.

For js pages outside your own user space, display:

This is a script written by <username>. You can use this script by linking to it from your own scripts if you want, but be advised that <username> can change it at any time. and then the warning about user scripts and what they can and cannot do

Is it possible to load a JavaScript file using a permanent link? If so, you could state that as an alternative in case you don't fully trust the author of the script.

So what would be the pros and cons of such approaches? Shinobu 09:52, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Server Lag

I'm seeing a server lag of over 1500 seconds when I view Watchlist. Seems abnormaly high and yes I did reload several times to make sure it wasn't a temp error. Did someone move/delete a major page? Mbisanz 18:03, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Seeing it too... 1700s and climbing! Arakunem^Talk 18:04, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't see any immediate causes in recent changes, no bots out of control or DDOS-type attacks. Mbisanz 18:08, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure what's going on; I looked for a massive delete, but I couldn't find one. Another possibility is that a bureaucrat has renamed someone with a lot of edits, but I'm not sure if that causes lag or not. Over 2000 seconds now. Acalamari 18:10, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Over 2200 now, that means a lag time of almost 40 minutes for changes. I'm wondering if there isn't some server-side error. Did we pay the cable bill this month? :) Mbisanz 18:14, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I think the database hamsters are worn out. Pinball22 18:17, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

This just made me wonder something... do the logs get updated when an operation starts or when it finishes? Pinball22 18:25, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I may be wrong, but I think it's when it finishes. Whenever I've done an edit, a delete, etc, they only register in the logs when the action has been completd. If that's the case, we won't know what's happened until the lag is over. Acalamari 18:27, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

<---- I'm thinking back to when the Deletion records were deleted, and caused a similar lag. Whenever this lag ends, someone really should take a look at changes if it isn't something obvious. Mbisanz 18:47, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok, it resolved itself and came back (this how I saw the update). spryde | talk 18:54, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Ended right around 4282 seconds (71 minutes). Something must have happened this morning! It's nice that we could still edit throughout, though :) --Quiddity (talk) 18:57, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I've still got problems, over an hour now :-( it seems some people have it and others don't

p.s. If someone gets renamed, it doesn't move all their contributions at once, it becomes a low priority job and doesn't get completed for a few days PhilB ~ ^T/_C 19:02, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Still ongoing. Occasionally I get a watchlist load that isn't lagged, but most of them are in the 3K plus second lag zone. I've seen one over 6,800 seconds lagged. I, on no technical knowledge whatsoever, suspect that some of the servers are being affected differentially. GRBerry 19:03, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

The lag ended a couple of times, but has come back. It's not as large as it was, but it's still here. Acalamari 19:11, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it's now over; no more worries. :) Acalamari 19:44, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not over yet

The "My Contributions" page right now is lagging (1800+ for me right now). Something large is happening. spryde | talk 21:04, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Just picked up 1900 second lag on mine and growing as before. Can a developer or someone take a look at what is going on with the database? Mbisanz 21:05, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Seems to be affecting "Special:Contributions/[username]" this time, rather than "Special:Watchlist". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gyrofrog (talk • contribs) 21:17, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

A question as to browser types. I had Firefox and Maxthon open. Firefox was showing a lag, up to 400 seconds before I shut it down, but oddly enough Maxthon had no lag at all. Has anybody else seen this discrepancy in browsers? CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 07:54, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately I was using FF only yesterday. I did notice that the issue went away and reappeared with the same linear progression of the time as if the issue was continuous. I suspect that may be a part of the load balancing and some servers but not all were being affected. It could be Maxthon was load balanced to a non-affected server. spryde | talk 17:49, 16 November 2007 (UTC) Speculation on my part. I have no clue what the setup is for WP

[edit] sister project links and mirrors

Are the links in List of flags supported by Wikipedia's mirrors?

I'm trying to ascertain how WP:ASR applies to that page.

The Transhumanist 11:52, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

The links all link to Commons, so yes, they would work on any Wikipedia project. — Edokter • Talk • 15:10, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I believe he is referring to mirrors like http://www.answers.com/lists%20of%20flags --Quiddity (talk) 21:44, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Reason for deletion" not allowing insertion of text

It seems the "Reason for deletion" part of the confirm deletion page has now had a character limit applied to it which causes attempts to insert text into it to be blocked off unless you delete text first from the "content was" section. Not sure if this is a new feature or a bug but it is rather annoying for people like me who do not perform automated deletions. –– Lid^(Talk) 03:09, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

This new limit (255 characters) is actually a good thing because Mediawiki will cut your reason at 255 bytes anyway. I can publish a userscript that will remove HTML limit (so you can edit freely) and will warn you about it instead. The script will have an advantage that it will count bytes (not chars), so you'll know how much space you have left even if you used some non-ASCII characters (which take 2 or more bytes each). P.S. The same limit is now on protection page as well; I wonder why devs still left a textarea on move page ∴ AlexSm 05:08, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User:Coastergeekperson04/Tabs Help!

Could Someone fix the tabs up? —Coastergeekperson04^{'s talk}@17.11.2007 04:04

Try cribbing from User:Lar/HeaderTabs. A general plea to fix might need a bit more context :) ++Lar: t/c 04:16, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

That's actually what I did. But it messed up when I adjusted it to my own settings. —Coastergeekperson04^{'s talk}@17.11.2007 04:19

It's done using more than one page, did you copy the other pages or are you using them straightaway? I missed that you already started by cribbing from me, because it doesn't say so in the comments. (Does now!) So I tried changing it to use my OtherTabs/ActiveTabs and I think it's working. ++Lar: t/c 05:37, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion: space and time-navigation

okay, I may be wery wrong off here, If this subject should be brought up somwhere else, please let me know at (removed email to protect you from the crawlerbots. Skittle 19:43, 13 November 2007 (UTC))

anyway here is my proposal

Adding a space-and-time-sorting-device would revolutionize the way we search for informaiton!

I suggest that you use the google-maps API to represent space and a slider to represent time. By adding the possibillity to put space and time into the meta-data. The articles would be represented by dots on a google-map, and when you used the slider, the dots would change for the specifik date. It would be very easy to se what happens in a sertain area or in a sertain time (or booth) using this technique, could even give you information that you didn't know that you wanted!

Most articles that refer to a certain place or time, mention this early in the text, this could be used to guess which time and place something ocuured, if it's not stated in the metatag. You could then use the community to confirm or deny this guess by a checkbox.

I really believe in this feature, it would among others be a great way to learn about you local area, or a holliday-destination, and a way to understand how differnt actions may have affected each other and a way to see patterns.

Kristoffer Nolgren —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.233.152.132 (talk) 14:58, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

First, this should be posted to the proposals page; it's not a technical question. Second, you appear to be confused about what Wikipedia is and is not; we're not a collector of all information in the world. Nor, for that matter, are there thousands of editors standing by, ready to geocode every event within every Wikipedia article. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 17:16, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] KHTML toolbar oddity

I'm currently using Konqueror, and if I use the toolbar buttons, for example to put some text in bold, I'm noticing an odd effect: that is the cursor is positioned between the b and the o. That is three or six positions too early, depending on the intent of the script. If IE does it correctly, it would be six. Similar happens when using the strike toolbar button (except the cursor is located seven positions too early = the total width of "<s></s>". Shinobu 09:59, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

After experimenting with a script of my own, I've found that Konqueror needs the new selection to be set in a setTimeout. Please fix it. Shinobu (talk) 14:14, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] One of Wikipedia's built-in scripts causes a JavaScript error

...
function PngFix()
{
    if (document.body.filters && !window.PngFixDisabled)
...

Please change this to a) swap the operands of the && operator and b) put in some exception handling because document.body.filters can throw (and on my machine does throw) an error.

...
function PngFix()
{
    try
    {
        if (!window.PngFixDisabled && document.body.filters)
...
    }
    catch(e)
    {
        Accept that the PNG will not be rendered with full alpha transparency.
        If necessary insert code to display it the classical way; otherwise leave this block empty.
    }
}

Thank you for your trouble. -- Shinobu (talk) 17:57, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Which browser are you using? The code works for me. So long as document.body exists, checking if document.body.filters exists shouldn't throw an error (unless it's some idiosyncratic browser "feature"). Gracenotes^T § 18:04, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

It is. It is a "feature" of Internet Explorer 5.5 and 6 that we use to help compensate for erroneous behavior in Internet Explorer 6. I will look into this issue when I have time. You are the first person to report that document.body.filters throws an exception; when I and others tested it, we did not have this problem.

You can avoid this problem and others by upgrading to Internet Explorer 7 or using a different browser such as Firefox or Opera. But again, I will look into the issue. —Remember the dot ^(talk) 18:42, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Ah. The "feature" I was referring to is ignoring basic ECMASCript standards :P Gracenotes^T § 05:31, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

The operands are easily switched (and should avoid the exception when disabled). However, I'll echo the comments above: if document.body.filters manages to throw an exception, there is something seriously wrong with your machine. (Perhaps an anti-mal/spy/adware application that filters bad scripts?) — Edokter • Talk • 20:01, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I believe I've encountered this before. It occurs if you don't use the default security settings in IE6. Hold on a minute while I try to figure out how to reproduce it. --- RockMFR 20:07, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Set "Binary and script behaviors" to "Disable". I think that is enough to reliably reproduce it. --- RockMFR 20:12, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Where is that option? Advanced? Security? I can't find it... (IE6/W2K) — Edokter • Talk • 23:48, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Tools > Internet Options > Security > Internet > Custom Level > Binary and script behaviors. In any case, I've been able to reproduce the problem and I proposed a fix at MediaWiki talk:Common.js#PngFix change for customized security settings. Please see my comments there, and thanks to those who have commented so far for identifying this problem. —Remember the dot ^(talk) 00:12, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

This discussion is now continued there. Thanks everyone! Shinobu (talk) 08:32, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] secure/insecure server crossing in MediaWIki namespace

Could somebody with wikimarkup experience take a look at MediaWiki:Cantrollback? See how it links to the en server? I use the secure server and I can't click on those links because I'm not logged in on the en server. Is there a nonspecific syntax that can be used, that will make the links workwithout linking specifically to the en server? ··coelacan 06:04, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=history}} view history]

typically works: view history. —Remember the dot ^(talk) 06:36, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Changes made. Seems to work alright. --- RockMFR 06:49, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

It works. Thank you. ··coelacan 09:58, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] secure server problem with sidebar

I get a different problem with the sidebar, over on the left. The link "Upload file" goes to https://secure.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Upload when it should go to https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Wikipedia:Upload . I can't figure out which Mediawiki page this is even occurring in, though. ··coelacan 10:52, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

This is configured by a server-side parameter, not a MediaWiki message. It is no-doubt set to "/wiki/Wikipedia:Upload", which works on the nonsecure server, but not on the secure server. Please file a bug. AmiDaniel (talk) 08:44, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

A bug was filed a couple of months ago: bugzilla:10843. It's not particularly easy to fix, so it stays broken until one of the devs gets around to it. --MZMcBride (talk) 19:07, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Strange message appears when I create a new talk page in my user space

When I create a new talk page in my user space, this message appears above the edit box and toolbar:

This is the discussion page for an anonymous user, identified by the user's numerical IP address. Some IP addresses change periodically, and may be shared by several users. If you are an anonymous user, you may create an account or log in to avoid future confusion with other anonymous users. Registering also hides your IP address.

Clearly this message should display only for talk pages in the user space of anonymous users. Shinobu (talk) 14:07, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

The problem is in MediaWiki:Newarticletext. It currently using something like this:

{{#switch:{{#expr:{{PAGENAME}}}}|{{#expr:{{PAGENAME}}}}=yes|#default=no}}

It expects this to return "yes", but it returns "no". Oddly enough, the following does return the expected result:

{{#ifeq:{{#expr:{{PAGENAME}}}}|{{#expr:{{PAGENAME}}}}|yes|no}}

I'll go ahead and change it to use ifeq instead of switch. --- RockMFR 21:20, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh, it's the '=' in the expr result that's doing it. --- RockMFR 21:29, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

sounds like a famous and easy mistake; in some languages, such as C, the test

• if(x=1)...

always returns true, because "=" means assignment, not comparison, and you have to be explicit for comparison,

• if(x==1)...

but in other languages it's the reverse, e.g.

• if(x:=1)...

I think it's worth noting. One time a permed user (elsewhere) ran a scrip to see who logged on had admin perms,

• for (x in ConnectedUsers) if (x.perm = godlike) ....

and inadvertently gave all logged-in users high perms. He meant

• for (x in ConnectedUsers) if (x.perm == godlike) ...

It was funny, laugh :-) Pete St.John (talk) 21:45, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

If I had a nickel for every time I've written a bug like that ... AmiDaniel (talk) 08:48, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anti-Vandal Bot standard

A small group of BAG members and AV bot operators is in the process of hashing out a common implementation standard/requirements for AV bots.

The point of the exercise is to make certain that current, and prospective, AV bots interact well between each other and with human vandal fighters.

Comments and suggestions are welcomed at Wikipedia talk:Bots/Anti-vandal bot requirements. — Coren ^(talk) 00:58, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please help edit complicated template

Several weapon articles use grain values but do not show gram equivalents. For example, 5.56 × 45 mm NATO and 7.5 x 55 Schmidt Rubin. This is because the template (Template:Infobox Firearm Cartridge) does not permit grams. If gram equivalents are added, the template will produce an error.

I want articles to say "50 grains (3.2 g)" or "4 g (62 grains)" depending on which is the source value. I have edited templates before but this one is too complicated for me. I have yet to find anyone willing or able to do the edit, or help me. Has anyone here got the skills and the motivation? Lightmouse (talk) 10:20, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I think it's best to ask about it at the talk page for the template. People there can help you best, because they will know how it works. Shinobu (talk) 14:10, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I did on 16 Aug 2007. Nobody offered to help. Can anyone here help? Lightmouse (talk) 16:38, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

One complication that exists is that articles that are set to use SI units for the ballistics data already have the mass given in grains. Therefore, it would not be possible for the template to assume that if SI units are enabled, the mass is in grams.

Is it usual to mix together grains and SI units, or is this a hack and would the articles using SI values eventually need to change the mass to grams? Tra (Talk) 20:59, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the template is complicated. Weight units must independent of other units.

• If you write "62 gr (4.0 g)", you get "62 gr (4.0 g) gr"
• If you write "4.0 g (62 gr)", you get "4 g (62 gr) gr"

We can simply remove 'gr' from the template code and allow plain english editing. Current articles would have to be updated to add "gr", but I could do that. Or we can make the template code even more complicated in order to permit weight values to be independent of other values. Lightmouse (talk) 12:34, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

I've added the |bwunit= parameter. If it is set to gram, the template will assume the weights are in grams, otherwise it will default to grains. Tra (Talk) 15:05, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. All the other units have conversions. Will the weight value now have conversions? Lightmouse (talk) 20:38, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it will convert between grams and grains. You can see how it looks at the examples you posted at the start of this thread. Tra (Talk) 21:03, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

That is exactly what I wanted. Thank you very much. Lightmouse (talk) 09:16, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Untagged speedy deletion

The page User:Qst/Userboxes has been in candidates for speedy deletion for a few hours now, although it is not (nor has it ever been) tagged as such. The category does not appear on the article either. The only thing I can find which is related is another page which was tagged for deletion today (and was deleted) was transcluded in User:Qst/Userboxes. But why it remains categorized as a CSD I don't quite understand. Any thoughts on how to fix this one? --TeaDrinker (talk) 23:04, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

I just did a null edit on User:Qst/Userboxes to force it to be removed from the category. I have no idea why purging its cache and the cache of CAT:CSD didn't work. — TKD::Talk 23:10, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Pages' category links don't get updated when you delete pages that were transcluded onto them (or at least, not consistently or promptly). Purging category pages doesn't ever do anything. —Cryptic 23:15, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the help! --TeaDrinker (talk) 21:30, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New messages bar

Is the code for the orange new messages bar located in the common js / css files somewhere, or is that hard-coded into the MediaWiki software? I'm interested in trying to set that up for other pages I check often, such as my user page (in case of vandalism), or the help desk (for new questions, since my IRC access is somewhat limited at college). I can't seem to find the code anywhere, however, so am at a bit of a loss at present. Thanks. Hersfold ^(t/a/c) 00:30, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Hard-coded. There's the script User:ais523/watchlistnotifier.js that does something similar for your watchlist, though. (It's less orange and intrusive than the talk-page bar; I tried an orange bar to start with but it got annoying after a while.) --ais523 10:48, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Not really hard-coded; it's defined in main.css. You can override the .usermessage class in your own monobook.css. — Edokter • Talk • 23:35, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

The colour orange, and other formatting details of the bar, can be overriden. The logic for deciding when the bar comes up can't be. --ais523 10:39, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] About the newpages "patrolled" feature

Copied from here.

When I patrol a new page on Special:Newpages, after I click "Mark this page as patrolled", I see a screen that gives me a link to return to Special:Newpages. I would also like to have a link to the page I just marked as patrolled, in order to save me the trouble of hitting the "back" button if I wish to read or edit the article. I imagine this feature would not be too hard to add because it exists in a similar form whenever you login. Please forward this request to the techies who can discuss whether it's a good idea. Shalom (Hello • Peace) 04:46, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

One problem is that you are technically still on the same page, just on a different action. However, this means you can simply click the [article] tab, or shift-alt-c (the 'current page' hotkey) to return. Alternatively, you can request a change to MediaWiki:Markedaspatrolledtext (on the talk page) such as The selected revision of [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}}} {{FULLPAGENAME}}] has been marked as patrolled. (tested on test.wp successfully). --Splarka (rant) 08:35, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Interwiki problem on my wiki

I added wikipedia-interwiki sql as suggested at Help:Interwiki links, but the pages just redirect to this Wikipedia, and not the foreign ones, e.g. if I put this:

• [[:en:w:Peugeot 406]] - it works fine,

but for the French version:

• fr:w:Peugeot 406 - it redirects to the article here, not the French version.

However, with other Wikimedia projects, e.g. Wikiquote, it redirects properly, e.g. de:b:Benutzer:Solumeiras

What do I need to to fix this so that they redirect to the proper Wikipedia and not this one?? --Solumeiras ^talk 19:23, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Put the project first, like w:fr:Peugeot 406. EVula // talk // ☯ // 19:57, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help with a MediaWiki site...

Hello,

I need helping setting up an archiving bot on another MediWiki site, Train Spotting World - http://train.spottingworld.com.

It just needs to archive talk pages. But later on, we will need more bots for future tasks.

Thanks,

Bluegoblin7 00:18, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MediaWiki:Movepagetext

Could anybody tell me please, what is this moving warning about "This can be a drastic and unexpected change for a popular page; please be sure you understand the consequences of this before proceeding." Please explain me exactly, what drastic and unexpected change(or changes) might accur with such a popular page? Toasker (talk) 18:56, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia has been slower in Firefox

I posted this 4 days ago, but removed it when I thought I figured out the problem. However, it appears I was wrong. When using Firefox (but not Opera), just about every time I hit back to go back to my watchlist, the page reloads (normal operation for the past few years has been that when I go back, it shows a cached version of the last time I visited the watchlist). I'm running Firefox 2.0.0.9 (though on another computer running the same version, I do not have this issue). This problem is a bit annoying because a) it slows down wikipedia a lot (I can see in the status bar that the page is searching meta. and upload. presumable to reload the donation banner) and b) I lose my place on the watchlist. Any idea what is causing pages to reload just about every time I go back to them? (I'm not positive, but it seems like this problem is not just with Wikipedia. I think google and amazon's servers are just a lot faster than Wikipedia's, so I cannot tell the difference between a reload and a cached version). -Andrew c ^[talk] 17:14, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

A bit of a late reply, but this sounds like it could be something to do with a Firefox configuration item. If you type "about:config" in the address bar, you'll get a page containing all the Firefox settings. Parameter browser.cache.check_doc_frequency controls when the browser will check for new versions of a page, when it will use the cache, and so on. Values are: 0) checks for page updates once per session (so hitting back should only use the cache); 1) checks for page updates every time you visit a page; 2) uses the cached version every time, if it exists; 3) checks automatically (by looking at the Date Modified field on the page - if that field is more recent than the cached page's date, the page will be reloaded).

Personally, I use value 1 on FF 2.0.0.9, and don't see the problem. Might be worth checking what cache size you've allowed to FF too - if the page isn't in cache, it will always reload, of course.

Anyway, hope that helps you out, but those are things worth checking out. Carre (talk) 20:01, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Special page to list user sub pages?

I don't want to loose track and have a page stay around unused. Wasn't there a special page that lists a user's subpages? Thanks. ~ | twsx | ^talk_cont | 08:27, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Special:Prefixindex/User:Twsx/. You can even transclude this list onto your userpage with {{Special:Prefixindex/{{FULLPAGENAME}}/}} or {{Special:Prefixindex/User:Twsx/}}. --Splarka (rant) 08:43, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Exactly what i was looking for, thank you. ~ | twsx | ^talk_cont | 09:07, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Permanent link

If an article is deleted, will the permanent link for that page still work? Think outside the box 15:08, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Deleted articles, including permanent links to specific versions, are only visible to administrators. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:16, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Think outside the box 15:17, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Also the link is different.--Patrick (talk) 15:27, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Change the image edit page for Commons image?

Now that we can check for images that are only on Commons and have no image page on our local wiki (bugzilla:7985), can we finally change the image edit page that appears when we click on the link for such an image in any log entry (Mediawiki:Newarticletext)? I don't think I'm the only person who might miss the "check for this image on Commons" link and thinks that the image doesn't exist. I propose we have something that transcludes the image, but that's just me. Awyong Jeffrey Mordecai Salleh 20:15, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help with my monobook

Hello guys, I would really appreciate someone taking a look at my monobook. Whenever I look at a page while logged in, I get a large text box at the bottom. And if possible, I would like a little explanation as to some of the features I have in it.I apologize as I don't have any experience with js. Thanks guys! My monobook page Funnyfarmofdoom 17:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion: remove some scripts, see if that helps, then continue ∴ AlexSm 18:05, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

What may help tremendously is the notion that you preview your monobook script by using the preview button. So you can quickly disable scripts (// is your friend) until the problem goes away, and that way you can figure out what causes it. Shinobu 08:39, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Preview does not work, you have to save and then bypass your browser cache to see any effects of your changes. Сасусlе 14:12, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Have you tried it? It certainly seems to work for me. Interestingly, while you see the effects of the changed script in the preview (if it has any effects there), you still have to clear your cache after saving to have the changes take effect elsewhere. -- Anomie (talk) 17:45, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Of course it works: the code of your script is inserted litterally in the HTML of the preview page. (This causes an interesting side-effect by the way: if your code contains the string "</script>" it will work fine normally but it will mysteriously fail in preview. Solution: replace it with "<\u002fscript>".) This also explains why you still have to clear your cache. -- Shinobu (talk) 18:03, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

You have a large text box at the bottom because you have copied my monobook.js which has some stuff useful for javascript debugging. (Trying to install one of my scripts? This is not the recommended way!) Remove the line

 loadJS('User:Lupin/evaluator.js');

and it should disappear. Lupin|talk|popups 17:15, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Donations button

This is abouth the donations banner at the top. It looks almost as though there is a button underneath the (writing at this point) "23,913 have donated" for no reason as the dark blue is almost disappearing into the very dark red. What a bad colour combination so shouldn't this be changed? Simply south (talk) 21:23, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Please direct comments about the donations banner to m:Talk:Fundraising 2007 or Wikipedia:Fundraising redesign. Thanks. AmiDaniel (talk) 22:45, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

I'll probably copy this to the redesign page. Thanks for the links. Simply south (talk) 22:49, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

The button text is white on a red background. If you're seeing something different, can you confirm what web browser (and version) you are using so we can investigate a style problem? --brion 19:42, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Accessibility problem

Dear Admins,

I would like to ask if it is possible to change the size of the letters in the upper links of the Recent changes page (from This page to Challenges) from small fonts to normal fonts, according to the accessibility guidelines of Wikipedia for the visually impaired. Thanks a lot --Hunadam (talk) 10:51, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

You can do this to your own view by editing Special:Mypage/monobook.css and adding this code:

.page-Special_Recentchanges small {font-size:inherit !important}

Most formatting features of Wikipedia can also be customized to your own view via monobook.css in this way. Hope that helps! --ais523 10:56, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you but I do not understand it. What should I exactly insert into my css page? If I insert the code you gave and refresh cash, the font-size remains the same small. --Hunadam (talk) 11:12, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Just the one line shown (between source tags in the edit view). It worked for me when I tested it (on Firefox; maybe it's a browser problem)? --ais523 13:16, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

It does not work for me neither in IE nor in Firefox. Anyway, my original idea was not to adjust it for only myself by employing such a complicated technical trick, but to make Wikipedia pleasant for all, including the short sighted and the elderly with weaker sight. The former may adjust the css in their browsers but the letter usually do not know about such tricks and have a lot of problems because of the small letters on homepages. Could Wikipedia be friendlier towards them by avoiding too small letters? The article Wikipedia:Accessibility says: If necessary, use <small> or <big> (See: Style and markup section). My question is: are small letters necessary here? --Hunadam (talk) 08:57, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

That part of Recent Changes is tagged with <small> tags; if a user has problems with them, there's likely to be some way to set the browser to ignore them. As for whether they're necessary, I don't know; presumably they're for the benefit of Recent Changes patrollers. --ais523 12:04, 21 November 2007 (UTC)