Talk:Viktor Yushchenko

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Contents

[edit] Image

Does it not make more sense to use a picture of Yuschenko that actually looks like him? Yes, the present one represents him as he has been, but for the sake of being to date at least, shouldn't the picture be present and represent Yuschenko as he is now?

I completely agree, the picture should be replaced. (Jamandell (d69) 18:07, 9 September 2005 (UTC))
The new photo shows what he actually looks like now - I think it's better that way. 138.92.190.195 12:03, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
Disagree. A couple of month ago there was an extensive discussion which photo to put in the leading section. We've reached consensus at that point. Sashazlv 16:15, 11 September 2001(UTC)
If you compare the photo currently in place and what Yuschenko actually looks like, they are quite literally not recognizable as the same person. I would normally agree with putting the official photo up instead of the current if he'd just dyed his hair or gotten a nasty scar or something, but this is drastic. The dude does not look like the same person. I've left the photo alone for now, but I just can't understand why the current picture is being used.-Umlautbob
I agree with Jamandell, 138.92.190.195, and Umlautbob: a passport photo has to be replaced by law if the person is not any longer recognisable. Similarly, the Wikipedia photo should be replaced since Yushchenko is not any longer recognisable from it. David Haardt
I came onto talk because I assumed that the photo was of the wrong person. The function of a photographic portrait is to render a likeness of the person: this one patently does not. I would suggest that this older likeness be included farther down the page, perhaps in the section on Dioxin poisoning, to show a before/after contrast, but that the main picture for the article be of him as he is recognisable today. Kevin McE 13:33, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
I agree with all the previous posts. The purpose of the photo is so that the man can be recognised and should therefore show him as he is today. Whatever the reason for his current appearance, many people will only have ever seen him in the state he now is and people simply won't recognise the photo we are using at the moment. 84.65.218.55 21:36, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Gone ahead and edited it. There just was no good excuse to use the "prettier" version of him. I've left that in the article and labeled it "pre-poisoning."Umlautbob 04:53, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Lets put up a vote.The Ronin 23:45, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Strong Agree- Picture after poisoning is best, because it is more accurate and more official.The Ronin 23:45, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Strong Agree- As I said above, the "official portrait" might as well be a different person altogether. It is that different. Umlautbob 05:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

There should be a more recent picture put up of him. His looks very different now and looks much better. Bentley4 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bentley4 (talk • contribs) 14:58, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] His son's lifestyle

Quote "Yushchenko was also tarnished by recent accusations that his 19-year-old son was leading a lifestyle far beyond his apparent means. A Ukrainian Web site reported that Andriy Yushchenko, a student, was driving a high-end BMW, had a luxury $30,000 cell phone and lavished cash on restaurants and other locations around the capital. To the fury of many people in Ukraine, he also registered as trademarks the symbols of the Orange Revolution." [1]

Fucking unbelievable! Just wondering, how does a $30,000 cell phone look like? And why would anyone need such a toy? gathima 05:57, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Ah, now this is an example of tax money put to good use. /sarcasm And to think that I sometimes wonder why I'm an anarchist, haha. Not really. I don't wonder.

68.88.20.219 13:09, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Fucking ugly truth, after his son was running his car on the road without any "identidication numbers", and became arrested for heavy broke of "road laws" by police, Ukraine awaited "DAI reform" (DAI is Ukrainian road police) THere were also rumor about some other conflicts with police, notably shooting the procuror... He 100% registered the trademarks for "orange revolution"... Echad 01:47, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

gentlement, please don't waste the talk page space for the rant. You can resolve those issues at Andriy Yushchenko that has yet to be written. --Irpen 03:38, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Theory vs. hypothesis vs. ...

The word "theory" was used to refer to something other than a scientific or mathematical theory. Although most dictionaries do not call it informal, I find this colloquial use of the word inappropriate for an encyclopedia, therefore I suggest that people try to use more suitable terms, e.g. hypothesis, suggestion, conjecture, speculation, suspicion, or the corresponding verbs for the latter four, depending on the context. Aragorn2 17:54, 20 November 2005 (UTC)


[edit] poisoning

So any leads on who poisoned him and if they will be punished? It's so sad what happened to his face, yet it doesn't seem to depress him psychologically or his selfesteem that much? He used to be so handsome, and now he's ugly. I'd be so mad if that happened to me.--Sonjaaa 02:59, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


It probably does annoy him on some level, like I imagine he pretty much wants those responsible brought to justice, however he's not the sort of guy to get depressed over such a thing. Happily married, kids, having achieved his political ambitions, a skin disorder brought on by some criminal animal poisoning him is quite likely a low issue on the emotional agenda.

[edit] POV-hinting lead

Guys, this sentence in lead is ambiguous and obviously hinting to anti-Yuschenko POV:

Ukraine's Central Election Commission declared him the winner of the 26 December 2004 re-run of the runoff election, by 52% to 44% over Viktor Yanukovych. The popular protest movement which brought him to power is today dubbed the "Orange Revolution."

He was ELECTED in 2004, all the rest is details in this lead. If we put these details ahead - we're promoting doubts that Yuschenko is a legitimate President.

I'll fiercely oppose this sentence to stay. Writing this only to fulfill the procedure, being aware of the article's importance.AlexPU 17:17, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

You don't need to follow any procedure to correct the obvious error. I missed it for some time but fixed it now, hopefully right. It now needs a go over by a native speaker. --Irpen 17:41, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

He WAS NOT elected, this article is too-Yushchenko-POV. I live in Ukraine and I have seen THREE round of voting, one, where they tied, second with victory of Yanukovich and, after Yanukovich's victory was said to be "un-democratical", they created the third round, which Yushchenko "won"... --Echad 01:51, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

This is discussed in detaul at the Ukrainian presidential election, 2004 article. Find the sourced information to complement/change the current mainstream view and then we will discuss it. --Irpen 03:38, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Controversies section

I reverted the change by user:Echad as follows. His statement about an alternative version of changes to VAYu's face (plastic operation) is unsourced. There were indeed various rumors in anti-Yushchenko press. If this is presented at all, it should only be presented as rumors and with a reference not just to one or two paperclip but to a review of such rumors. Further, that his supporters "changed their minds" and vote for the PoR doesn't withstand the obvious numbers test. "Our Ukraine" + BYuT + Socialists got together more votes, actually, than Yushchenko in the 3rd round while PoR actually got LESS than Yanuk in the third term, no evidence of voter's switch.

Claims about "great crisis" are too serious to be unsourced or even sourced to a questionable paper or web-site. If this is so, it must be easy to find a respectable magazine or review that claims there is a "great crisis". There is plenty of info that the country isn't doing too well, but "great crisis" is something drammatic. Sources pls.

Accusations of Ukrainian nationalism are indeed occasionally made, but not by "Russians and Jews" but by the anti-Yushchenko press and people. Cite those, if you want this statement in the article. "Swastika graffitis" are very rare in Ukraine and there is no evidence at all that connects them with Yushchenko. People beaten up in W. UA just for talking in Russian? These stories are older than Yushchenko's presidency. Most of them are not factual. In any case, this belongs to Ukrainian nationalism (another red link) rather than Yushchenko.

"American army units stationed in Crimea" is plain nonsence and doesn't belong to Yushcneko either. There is a Crimean anti-NATO protests of 2006 article for that.

  • I think I covered an entire edit by Echad and explained why I reverted it. Occasionally, I would have tried to integrate whatever is salvageable myself into the article, by searching for references but, IMO, there is too little salveagable here and I have several more urgent things to do. If you edit, please so it properly. --Irpen 03:38, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
  • The fact, that the cost of food increased dramatically doesn't count? Yanukovich GOT more votes, that Yushenko at parliamental elections. And the whole western Ukraine nationalims is well-known in Ukraine (eastern and Southern) everyone knows how a Russian-speaking person will be descriminated, and indeed they are, when nation's all documents must be on Ukrainian and merely no one clearly knows that archaic language (imagine documents in America on Native language, understood?) and most elder people can't make anything with papers today. FACT, that main argument at political performances in Kyiv were of "get rid of Russians" classified as "Москали" and "Ганьба Москалям", something like "Doom the Russians"... That went even farther, as buses with Nationalists went to east and south to shoutn their hatred to Russians and Jews "Ганьба Москалям и Жидам", "Москали и Жиди, йдить з Украины" ("Doom the Moscows and Kikes" and "Moscows and Kikes get out of Ukraine") These were the slogans shouted by his followers, his party and him at various performances in 2004...

A battle ready foreign NATO warship on our territories is nonsence? Boy, 20 years before this would be the start of a war!

  • If you are not blind, walk on street in Odessa (mostly slums, but also center of the city and even the outside walls of biggest cinemas) and SEE swastikas and other nazi stuff at merely each building in some districts, and there were not before the new ruling party, when most politicians are from Lviv and other western ukrainian with major number of Hitler followers... The number of Skin-Heads increased much and they are more "open", and it is fucking fact, that a person can be beaten in western Ukraine just for not-talkin-on-something-between-Polish-and-Hungarian-with-distant-mix-of-Russian. (as the true Ukrainian language is lost, as confirmed by scholars)
  • Most peple of Ukraine, especially in east and south hate Yuschenko, Timoshenko and other Nazi even, when peservin themselves as Ethnic Ukrainians, mostly due the fact he sold Ukraine to America...
  • There are some "not so smart" Americans, who sees simple nazi as the "bringer of peace and democracy" to lesser (only 1000 years older, that America) civilisation...
  • "Claims about "great crisis" are too serious to be unsourced or even sourced to a questionable paper or web-site."
  • Ha, you say so, when the papers are censored and people are starving, man... Month of internet costs the same as two days of food... Who are you to prove me, who lived the whole life in Ukraine, "how is it" ???????????!!!!!!!!!!! This is indeed stupid, when people from other countries think, that they know how we live and we ourselves not!
  • I won't waste my time at this anymore, we never lived so poor after the breakup of USSR as we live now, hope I will emigrate some day, because living in Ukraine became hard with 200 USD per man at the good job... Good bye, I hope you won't view him as the "Supa-gut-president-of-justice" and delete entries, that think otherway... This must be an article without personal feeling, but when i read it, it is imaginable as he is a hero, opposed to what the people of Ukraine think...

Echad 18:58, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Poisoning controversy

Ok, so what's the deal with this article? Has all of the stuff in it been debunked?

To quote:

In news accounts of the Yushchenko "poisoning" mystery, Zimpfer is variously described as the "president" or the "head" of the Rudolfinerhaus clinic, but a better description of his position is "administrative chief." His official title is President of the clinic's Board of Supervisors. The chief medical doctor at the clinic, who supervised and had first-hand knowledge of Yushchenko's case, was Dr. Lothar Wicke. I put that in the past tense because, on December 9, Dr. Wicke resigned. It seems that his skeptical remarks concerning the unproven status of the "poisoning" accusations had proved injurious to his health. At a news conference held just after Yushchenko's first visit to Rudolfinerhaus, Dr. Wicke had accused unnamed individuals not on the medical staff of spreading "medically falsified diagnoses concerning the condition of Mr. Yushchenko." He also pointed to the complete lack of any evidence that the candidate had been poisoned, either deliberately or otherwise. This did not endear him to the Yushchenko crowd.

According to the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ), a leading German newspaper, and reporter Emil Bobi, of the Austrian magazine Profil, Dr. Wicke received numerous death threats and explicit warnings from the Yushchenko clan. As the FAZ reports:

"Thereafter Yushchenko's people made clear to Wicke that he should not say anything more concerning the affair, since otherwise [as Wicke puts it] 'one would resort to other means against me and the hospital.' Dr. Wicke is also supposed to have received death threats at the time."

It seems to me that something should at least be added about the controversy, and the suspicious details mentioned. I'm adding a tag to this article until this is fixed in some fashion. Esn 05:36, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Take care at date = December 15, 2004. This is clearly not best source of information. If you wish to put something about mystery - focus your attention on status of current poisoning investigation. After such a long time - there is still no information who/where/why/when released to public dispute promise from Yushchenko side to investigate this case ASAP also no information who has ordered killing of Gongadze and no promised actions to put all mafia to jail. --TAG 10:17, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
The other source that is given in the article is even earlier; it mentions the Austrian clinic diagnosis that the Dec.15 article criticizes. I would like to know if the points made in that article have ever been disproven, but the Western media has this irritating habit of forgetting about something as soon as the event is over. So I'm not sure if a reply to the points made in the Dec.15, 2004 carticle has ever been made. Every major English-language news network I've seen has been content to accept the "Austrian clinic" version of events ever since 2004; none have mentioned that the head doctor resigned over the whole issue. Esn 10:42, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
There was lawsuit Dr. Lothar Wicke vs. Rudolfinerhaus [2] because of his "no-poison" statements and layoff. Can somebody check if there any public records on this case at [3] like LexisNexis in USA and result of this trial ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by TAG.Odessa (talk • contribs) 12:00, 29 November 2006

Anybody interested - please assist to clean up my edit. There are issues this this:

a) No mention that Wicke got death threats.

b) No information that Korpan is not Rudolfinerhaus official (is he?)

c) Some mess about date of announcement conference (December 8 vs. 11 - links to rudolfinerhaus.at can help)

d) No details then Wicke started to disagree with Korpan. Looks like there was some memo he has signed before Dec 8. Some can even assume he is linked to this false Reuters press-release(??)

f) Still no details on outcome of Wicke vs. Rudolfinerhaus case

g) No up-to date information about Yushchenko investigation. It's still nobody jailed and even no official information given to public.

i) No information about government award given to Korpan recently [4]

k) There are some information about combination of Alpha-fetoprotein and Dioxin used [5] in Korpan interview.

I think that this poisoning issue deserve separate article. BTW, There are also small bit of information at fr:Viktor_Iouchtchenko#L'empoisonnement. --TAG 23:58, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if I'll be able to help within the near future, but I'd just like to thank you for what you have done so far. The section is a lot better than it was. I think it's sad that wikipedia editors must do the job that, by all rights, journalists should be doing (sifting through obscure documents, etc). Nearly nobody in the Western press is interested in correcting their own reporting mistakes. Esn 10:38, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I know this is a bit later, but I've checked LexisNexis, Westlaw and JustCite (I'm a law student so I get free access). There is no case involving Ruldofinerhaus listed on any of them. However that does not necessarily mean that the case hasn't been heard:
  • Law reports generally only cover cases which raise an unusual or significant point of law. A doctor suing his employer for sacking him because of a disagreement about patient diagnosis, is probably neither
  • The sites I mentioned generally only cover English-language jurisdictions, for obvious reasons. Scotland, England and Wales, USA, Canada, Australia, South Africa (to a certain extent),: no problem. Austria: slightly more of a problem. Unless we get an Austrian lawyer/law student with access to Austrian law reports, I doubt we'll find anything about this case. Cynical 19:23, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Religion

Since Yushchenko is not active prayer and visit all Churches without giving any preference to specific one - should Kiev Patriahate be listed instead of neutral Eastern Orthodox Church - religion, not a church. --TAG 06:43, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yushchenko's Election

The information in the opening section of the article is wrong - Y. did not win the 2004 election through recount but through revote. Also the numbers (53 to 47%) are inaccurate. Repeating the run-off was the gist of the Supreme Court's decision following the Orange Rev. events. Please correct. (ouital77 21:25, 8 August 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Picture

there should be a new more recent picture put up of him. His face looks much better now as it has healed alot.

[edit] Andrei Yushchenko: Personality and “the legend” by Yuri Vilner

Guys, before this gets out of hand (and there likely will be more) as this hit the web, please take a look at the second page of this book available in full for example here. Take a look at the copyright notice at page 2 of part 1. It is clear from the notice that the book is self-published (red flag #1). Also, there seems to be no info anywhere to verify the credentials of its author (red flag #2). Obtaining an ISBN and publishing anything is really simple these days. Please exercise caution with these kinds of sources. --Irpen 10:22, 22 April 2008 (UTC)