Talk:Views of the Arab-Israeli conflict

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[edit] Dispute regarding Jewish loss of property after 1948

The article states: "Most of these Jews [those leaving/fleeing Arab countries] lost most of their property and continue to claim compensation." Given the description at Jewish exodus from Arab lands it seems a real reach to suggest that "most" Jews lost their property, given that that article indicates that only in Egypt and Libya did property confiscations occur (and in Egypt it was described as "hundreds" of Jews, and not the 75,000 in Egypt at the time; and in Libya the confiscations began in 1969, 20 years after the initial conflict). The other large Jewish populations in Morocco, Tunisia, Iraw, and Algeria, who compose the majority of the Jewish populations in 1948 Arab lands, did not experience confiscations, per the article.

Please repair this section.

Lokiloki 03:07, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Temp

You are making significant changes, therefore please use a Temp page, as we did in the main article. Thanks, Lokiloki 20:11, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I am going to follow your suggestion. Thank you. ←Humus sapiens ну? 21:07, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

ironically i the only biased thing i found in this text was the palestinian (forgive me if i spelt it wrong) textbook issue. This only looks at one side of the argument. Please change this. Just because America is at war with the Middle East doesn't mean we should promote racism.

[edit] Jewish loss of property after 1948

Loki, my grandmother was an Iraqi Jew, she and her entire Jewish community was forced to flee Iraq as part of riots that erupted when the State of Israel was founded. Her home was burnt down and hundreds of Jews were killed in the riot. She fled to Israel.

I also work with a Jew whose father had the same situation in Syria. His father fled Damascus in similar riots - he arrived in Jaffa, was encountered by Christian Missionaries and flew to Canada. He now resides in Boston.

There is extensive literature on the subject, refuting the claim that Arabs ejected their Jewish populations is absurd...the number of Jews living in each Arab nation is in the double digits, they are often kept as the tolken Jews as proof that the mass ejection and rioting did not happen. Furthermore, the current seemingly anti-Israel testimonies of these Jews (such as the 30 or so in Iraq) are clearly forced as any other but the standard regional rhetoric is punishable by death. Labaneh 16:18, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

the new historians show (morris, pappe, shlaim, also the journalist david hirst) that the riots (and bombs, which took jewish life) were caused by the stern gang as provocation to iraqi jews to leave their country, which they were not so keen on doing. If you would like to include something in this article please cite sources besides your grandmother213.6.6.64 21:31, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite status

Any ideas? —Viriditas | Talk 12:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV, citations

I dispute the article's neutrality. This stems from the article being a collection of WP:OR, not a presentation of referenced facts. All relevant citations are missing. For an article this length, I would expect > 100 footnotes, not one. Kosmopolis 10:01, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Could you point to specific statements needing referencing, or which are formulated through original research? TewfikTalk 20:59, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I won't have to read past the first first paragraph. "But most are moderately peaceful". All relevant citations are missing. For an article this length, I would expect > 100 footnotes, not one. Kosmopolis (talk) 12:03, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

There are 46 references by my count which is quite a bit for any article. If there is a specific passage that you feel needs to be sourced, request a tag, but keep in mind that many people from many POVs have seen the page before you as well. TewfikTalk 06:14, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] New Israeli Addon

I recently added a bit saying that the Israelis were more peaceful of the two by facts only not by opinion, i don't mean to favor either side. I say this because the enemies of the Israelis tend to initiate the violence more than the Israeli government. Such as the Yom Kippur and 6-Day wars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HunterL22 (talk • contribs) 06:18, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Characterizations of Zionism as Racism and Colonialism - NPOV Dispute

This section contains factual inaccuracies, lacks citations, and may demonstrate POV (although, it the section is of such poor quality, that it may simply misrepresent the viewpoints of Zionism/Zionists/Israelis without the intent of biasing the presentation). Here are the problem's with the section:

  • Characterizations of Zionism as Racism and Colonialism
This title is problematic in that, since it is listed under the "Israeli viewpoint", it suggests that Israelis view Zionism as racism and colonialism. Perhaps a better title would be "Responses to allegations that Zionism is a form of racism or colonialism".
This misrepresents Zionism and conflates secular and religious approaches to Zionism. Before Israel came into existence, Zionism was the Jewish national movement with the goal "to be a free people in [their] land, the land of Tzion and Jerusalem" (quoted from the Israeli national anthem, "Ha-Tikvah", which means "the hope"). The earlier forms of Zionism were secular and were largely in response to severe pogroms in Russia. Contemporaneously, Zionism is simply the belief that Israel should continue to exist as a Jewish state, and that the Jewish people have the right to statehood and autonomy. That said, there are those -- especially among the settler movement -- whose support of Israel is religious and who believe that, since God promised the land to Abraham and his descendants in the Torah, they have an exclusive right to the land. However, this sentence fails to distinguish between secular and religious definitions of Zionisms and suggests that the minority viewpoint (a religiously-based exclusive right to the land) is the majority viewpoint.
  • This opinion would argue that Zionism does not imply the superiority of Jews over any other nationality or ethnicity, but it does imply a superior right to Biblical land
Likewise, this fails to distinguish between those who argue that the Jewish people have a national claim to the land and those who argue that the Jewish people have an exclusive national claim to the land. The former viewpoint is a majority viewpoint; whereas, the latter is a minority viewpoint.
  • In the 1930s, ideas of a 'population exchange' of Arabs and Jews between Arab states and Israel were actually popular among Zionists
Not so. There was divided support for the Peel Partition Plan of 1937, and this was despite not because of the population exchange. Zionists supported the Peel Partition plan because of support for partition as a means of obtaining an independent Jewish state in which Jews could immigrate without quotas and also as a means of reducing Arab-Jewish violence.
  • In practice, most Jews living in Arab Nations in 1948 have currently left Arab countries: 2/3 have moved to Israel
Most Israelis would point out that the term left would be misleading; nearly 900,000 Jews were forcefully expelled from Arab lands, and their properties confiscated.
  • ...however in general, Arabs are treated as second class citizens within Israel.
This is very strongly disputed. This claim should be accompanied by a citation with explicit attribution. Also, sources disputing the claim should be likewise cited with explicit attribution.
  • Zionists hold that Zionism is not colonialism..., and accept the use of force in colonizing and securing the land.
This statement is self-contradictory. If they do not view it as "colonialism", then how do the accept the use of force in "colonizing" the land? Also, this misrepresents Zionism. I also think that this statement misrepresents the Israeli viewpoint, since most Israelis would argue that they do not use force to acquire land (except in what they view as defensive wars and for the purpose of securing defensible borders and as punitive damages with the intent of deterring further hostilities), but rather to defend against what they view as Arab or Palestinian aggression.

In summary:

  • The entire section is unsourced.
  • The majority of the section is factually inaccurate.
  • The majority of the section misrepresents the Israeli/Zionist viewpoint.
  • The majority of the section portrays Zionism in a negative, rather than objective, light.

Michael Safyan (talk) 05:13, 21 May 2008 (UTC)