Talk:Vietnam/Move 1

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was leave it where it is. —Nightstallion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 07:11, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

• Vietnam → Việt Nam - At the present, the correct form ("Việt Nam") and then the slightly less correct form (Viet Nam) sans accented characters redirect to the blantly incorrect form. It should be the other way around. This is similar to refering to the US as Unitedstatesofamerica. This has been discussed, but has been dropped for nearly two years. I think it's time to fix it. --MichaelAhlers 14:16, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Add #Support followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

Propose: Leave page name at Vietnam

1. Support for now. I would like to see some more arguments before making a final decision --Philip Baird Shearer 21:32, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
2. Support. As a Vietnamese speaker, I see no problem with using the most commonly used English name for the country in the English Wikipedia. Note that in Vietnamese, each syllable is written as one unit, thus leading some people (even native Vietnamese speakers) to mistake each syllable as one "word". Most Vietnamese words consists of more than one syllable. Writing Vietnam as "Viet Nam" in English would be like writing "U Ni Ted S Tates of A Me Ri Ca". DHN 22:17, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
3. Strong support, per DHN. Jonathunder 14:34, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
4. Keep the English spelling used by the government of Vietnam on its websites. Thumbelina 18:19, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
5. Support. Most common. Eugene van der Pijll 10:43, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
6. Support. Most common. Gene Nygaard 20:32, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
7. Support – 1st choice By far the most common, and not at all incorrect (e.g., as per the Oxford English Dictionary, Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, et al.); the lead should be refined – slightly different than the current version – to include the common short-form rendition with binomial alternate and a note (as is) to rarefied (accented) version below. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 20:54, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
8. Support most (if not all) other English language encyclopaedias use the name Vietnam, I don't see why Wikipedia should break with tradition. Edwy ^(talk) 15:08, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Propose: Move page name to Việt Nam

1. First choice. —Nightstallion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 11:03, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Propose: Move page to Viet Nam

1. Second choice. —Nightstallion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 11:03, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
2. Second choice Gene Nygaard 20:33, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
3. 2nd choice Perhaps more proper, but a redirect and an effective article lead should more than suffice. Speaking of which: Viet Nam is a common enough rendition (e.g., UN) that it should be noted in the introduction, with the note to the rarefied Việt Nam. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 20:54, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
4. Support This form is perhaps most appropriate for English speakers while maintaining the fact the country name is two words. --MichaelAhlers 02:59, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Please add any additional proposals above this line in chronological order.

Discussion

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For old discussion see above #Wrong Spelling, #Vietnam vs. Viet Nam and #Viet Nam spelling again--Philip Baird Shearer 21:32, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Please read Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English) particularly the talk page and the archives and you will see that diacritics (or "accent marks") are very contensious, these two discussions probably cover all the bases on this issue: Talk:Côte d'Ivoire/Archive1 and Talk:Zürich/archive1 -- Philip Baird Shearer 21:53, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Google:

• about 277,000,000 English pages for Vietnam -"Viet Nam" -"Việt Nam" -wikipedia
• about 52,400,000 English pages for "Viet Nam" -Vietnam -"Việt Nam" -wikipedia.
• about 1,520,000 English pages for "Việt Nam" -"Viet Nam" -Vietnam -wikipedia.

• The British Library web site uses Vietnam. local search "Viet Name" redirect to it. The local seach did not understand "Việt Nam".
• britannica Main article under vietnam spelling
• UN list the country under "Viet Nam"

--Philip Baird Shearer 22:39, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I feel that using "Viet Nam" instead of "Vietnam" is trying to outdo the Vietnamese themselves. "Vietnam" outranks "Viet Nam" by a factor of 5 to 1 in websites originating from Vietnam. Why impose something that they themselves don't even use? DHN 22:29, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Viet Nam might appear more correct to an English speaker when compared with the Vietnamese term "Việt Nam", but to a Vietnamese speaker like me it looks like a half-assed attempt to be "correct". The French use "Viêt Nam", which I consider an abomination. Why use an obscure term that might not even display correctly on some computers when a commonly used English word would do? DHN 23:14, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

As a Vietnamese speaker, I see no problem with using the most commonly used English name for the country in the English Wikipedia. Note that in Vietnamese, each syllable is written as one unit, thus leading some people (even native Vietnamese speakers) to mistake each syllable as one "word". Most Vietnamese words consists of more than one syllable. Writing Vietnam as "Viet Nam" in English would be like writing "U Ni Ted S Tates of A Me Ri Ca". DHN 22:17, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to believe you, but—why the hell does Vietnam take its seat at the United Nations as "Viet Nam", then? —Nightstallion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 17:16, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I have no idea. As I said before, some people mistakenly feel that it is "more correct". Books published in the South previously wrote it as Việt-nam, and as can be seen in this telegram, Ho Chi Minh used "Vietnam". Perhaps the usage patterns have changed in the 30 years since Vietnam joined the UN. Government websites in Vietnam using "Vietnam" outnumber those using "Viet Nam" by a factor of 10 to 1, according to Google. DHN 17:46, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Mh. As a Vietnamese speaker, could you possibly try to contact the Vietnamese government agencies and try to find out why they use "Viet Nam" at the UN? Just to satisfy my curiosity... Thanks! —Nightstallion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 07:11, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.