Talk:Video games/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Proposal for structure change

It is proposed that a general article on Computer and video games be created to give an overview of the topic for the novice, and provide links to other, more specific articles for the passionate. This article is being drafted at Talk:Computer game/Computer and video games. It is proposed that the articles on Computer game, Video game, Adventure, Interactive fiction and Arcade game would remain, but focus on elements that are unique to those subcategories. Please edit, and discuss! Mark Richards 23:16, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Furthermore, merge both, and move video game to "console game" (currently redirecting to consoles in general). The standard definition for both computer game and video is typically the same, I believe that the main distinction is for "console games", which are simply a subset/variant of computer games in general. For example, "genres" and "criticism", as seen under video game should be under computer games - genres, computer games - criticism. The 'new' console game article should state that a console game is one that is played on a specialized system, and then have categories ~"description", and "history", etc.

One statement I'd like to argue against is:

"The term "video game" generally excludes computer games and coin-operated arcade games, not only because the games in these categories are historically different, but because the activity of playing these types of game is different"

I don't believe it excludes computer games. A computer game is a game that is controlled by a computer of some form. A video game is a game with a video display, the back end to this is almost exclusivley a computer of some sort, be it a console or otherwise. And a game played on the computer has a video display. A console is a specialized computer, made for playing games. I believe "Console game" is what is being referred to by "video game". Historically, the rift between console and home-computer based games is clearly distinguisable, but only in terms of interface to the game.

In short, video and computer games are seemingly irreparably fused, console is a specialized type of that fusion. Home-computer and console games differ mostly in interface, and this difference can be summarized under one heading. I'll start helping with the implementation of the draft page and with giving things some structure - if stop me if I go too far :) Slike 19:33, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Computer game redirect

Nitpick: I would disagree with redirecting "computer game" to "video game." Plainly, not all computer games are video games, as anyone who recognizes "phlug" and "a hollow voice says..." knows very well. If anything, the broader genus is indeed "computer game." Anyway, I'd say both deserve their own pages. MHO.

Video game is generally considered to be broader - people often refer to Quake as a video game, people never refer to Mario as a computer game. See for instance the recent /. article - it's never mentioned whether or not computer games are responsible for violence. Etymologically you'd be more correct, but people rarely worry about that sort of thing when they talk. Heck, note Zork and Ultima were already here.

The separation of the two is certainly canon, and I agree that it makes good sense for older games. The problem is that the distinction necessarily carries itself forward to the present, where it becomes a harmful anachronism. Games slip back and forth all the time, and Mario and Goldeneye pair up far better with Keen and Quake then which each other. Emulators make things even worse. This merging was brought about by the suggestion we be platform agnostic, and I can't say I disagree - there's plenty of room for separation when talking about genres or history. JG

Unfortunately the phrase "computer and video games" is accurate and even gamers will not object to it, but it does not roll trippingly off the tongue. Perhaps as a subhead to articles containing 'video game' we include some semi-disclaimer like Note on semantics: Gamers distinguish "video game" (a game on a video game console or in an arcade cabinet) from "computer game" (a game played on a personal computer). For brevity we use the term "video game" throughout Wikipedia. --Tempshill

Genre pigeonholing

But how to pigeonhole games by genre? There are so many examples of series that span many genre's and styles, that appear at first glance to be one thing, but are in fact another. Take for example the Tomb Raider entry, the fact that the first 3 instalments are 3d doesn't make it a 3d series, "huh?!?" there is a 2d Game Boy Color Tomb Raider. But that's just the beginning. A better example again is Panzer Dragoon, the first two games were on the rail shooters, the third, Panzer Dragoon Saga was an RPG. Best yet is Super Mario; 2d platform game? or 3d platform game? or kart racing game? or all three and then some more.

I haven't the answer, perhaps games that aren't so readily defined should he left just that, undefined. --Neeklamy

Those examples aren't really cross-genre games, but series that span several genres - particularly the last, since Mario Kart is a different series altogether. But you have a good point, many games are going to be problematic. I think probably the best way to handle this would be to just mention them in multiple categories, and for truly unique games (Robot Odyssey) make an other category. Most games fall very clearly into one genre or another - platformers, first person shooters, and RPGs have each had hundreds of nearly identical titles.

You got me there! But really, there are plenty of actual cross-genre games; how about those shoot em up levels in Super Mario Land, or more recent still, the racing in Shenmue. Slight diversions maybe, but the last few years have seen more games tackling several genres, probably the best known example is Final Fantasy VII. --Neeklamy

Genre sections

Is the video game section going to be exhaustive? I presume so, so each genre now has a subpage. I suggest there be no more than half a dozen good examples of each genre on the main page, with the full list being on the specific subpage. --Neeklamy

Other FPS

I suppose I'm being unnecessarily picky in re: Video game/FPS, but has anyone ever heard of any other kind of first person shooter? For instance, a first-person shooter movie, perhaps, or a poem, or maybe a painting? --KQ

Not too sure I follow what you mean KQ, do you mean FPS games that involve something other than just shooting, like System Shock perhaps? or the upcoming Metroid Prime?

No, I mean I've never heard of any other kind of first-person shooter, so why not just call it "first-person shooter," rather than "video game/first-person shooter"? I don't think they exist except as a video game.

Reorg Needed

This page, and Video Game/History sure do seem old-fashioned compared the the sleek, modern Wikipedia page. Very little has happened to them in a long time. Not my field, but a great opportunity for someone for some synthesis and reorganization. Ortolan88 20:56 Aug 8, 2002 (PDT)

Video game just US?

Is "Video game" US terminology? To my antiquated UK perception there are "computer games" and "console games" of various genre (text, shoot em up, platform, simulation, ...) I have never heard of "video game" as a term before. -- SGBailey 23:14 Jan 17, 2003 (UTC)

Most of this article should be under computer games. Videogame is an archaic term from the 1970s/80s. Vera Cruz

Just to lend support to the idea that games which use are not necessarily known as video games in this country (UK). In fact here, the term 'video' lends itself more to what would be called a VCR in other countries - i.e. to record television broadcasts, or a device which does this. It would be interesting to hear what goes on around other parts of the world? Kabads

Computer vs. Video Game

I also think video game and computer game should be differentiated, because computer games include textual games which could be played purely verbally (by a blind person for instance), while video games by definition have an integral visual component. The pages should be about games, then both can link to a separate List of computer and video games. Stan 16:12 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)

Updated listing

Whew. Re-organized and updated the video game listing to make it alphabetical and more aesthetically pleasing. Also rearranged some games to more properly fit under a genre, ie, Sokoban is listed as a puzzle game, now. With regards to "console game" vs. "video game" vs. "computer game", I feel that "video game" is an all-encompassing term, and console, computer, and arcade should each have their own pages that would be linked to from "video game." MHO. TimmyD 08:29 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)

Moved comment from article

Moved this paragraph from the article (just before the list of genres):

This list could be improved on, and the titles relisted to those of great importance. Video games may also be categorized temporally -- one may be a turn-based game or a continuous game -- or in terms of the sort of display they have - 2d, 3d, fixed 3d, and so forth -- though these tend to be more flexible. Of course all of these categories are somewhat overlapping and incomplete , GTA for example is an adventure, a shooter and 2D or 3D depending on version.

I reworded what I left to make it descriptive of the list. But the paragraph above really doesn't belong in the article—it's a discussion of what the article needs.--Frecklefoot

Reorganized Genre section

I just totally reformatted the Genre section. The old way drove me nuts! I realize that now the TOC is totally overloaded, but perhaps someone could do more reformatting so just the main genres are listed? I also added descriptions to each type of genre for a brief overview of the genre so they don't have to navigate to the entry to find out what the genre contains (they can still surf there for an in-depth discussion). I also added the new genre Serious games and re-alphabatized game listings. Comments, criticisms appreciated... —Frecklefoot 17:52, 1 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I've pushed the concept a little further - there are now a couple dedicated lists (the lists here were missing many game articles), and I think this article should prune down to only mention the 3-4 best-known games in each genre, so it can focus on narrative, while the lists can be exhaustive/ing. :-) Then some of the subheadings can become plain paragraphs, and the TOC is less frightful. Also the lists are both computer and video games, which finesses that debate... Stan 06:25, 31 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I was wondering, what genre would be appropriate for games such as the video game adapations of Law and Order and CSI: Crime Scene Investigations. Are they a simulation or something else?

Not So Notable People

I'm going to trim the entries of "Notable People" since many of the entries, frankly, aren't so notable. Here are the ones I propose to trim since their contributions to the video game industry are negligible. If anyone can demonstrate why they should be left in, please discuss here:

Koji Kondo -- music composer for Mario and Legend of Zelda series (Nintendo)
Ken Kutaraji -- President of Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc.
Nakano Ritsuki (later known as Rikki) -- vocalist for Suteki Da Ne of Final Fantasy X
Kou Shibusawa -- producer of Sangokushi series and Nobunaga_no_ yabo series
Koichi Sugiyama -- music composer for Dragon Quest series (Square Enix)
Hirokazu 'Hip' Tanaka -- President of Pokemon Co. and music composer for Metroid, Kid Icarus, and Super Mario Land
Toshiro Tsuchida -- Front Mission series
Yuka Tsujiyoko -- music composer for Fire Emblem series, Paper Mario, and part of Tetris Attack (Nintendo, Intelligent Systems)
Nobuo Uematsu -- music composer for Final Fantasy series and Ehrgeiz (Square Enix)
Hiroshi Yamauchi -- former president of Nintendo and predecessor of Satoru Iwata

I'd like to keep the list trimmed to those individuals who have had a significant impact on video games or the industry. The people above, I feel, do not qualify and were most likely added by fans of the games they contributed to. While many of the games these people worked on are notable, their contribution doesn't merit inclusion in the list IMHO. I suggest someone start a List of notable video game industry people if they want to include every single person in the video game industry. From the entries above, it looks like there may need to be another list, List of notable video game composers. Anyway, I appreciate any feedback before I yank the people listed above. —Frecklefoot 16:56, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I'm with you on everybody except Ken Kutaraji, who is the father of both Playstations. He's far more than just a faceless executive. I'm surprised we don't have an article about him already - there was a great biography of him in Wired magazine a couple of years ago. Sigh - another thing for my TODO list ;) --- Finlay McWalter 17:06, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

It's also mis-transliterated; the official version seems to be Ken Kutaragi. [1]

In this context, you'd want to pick the 5-10 most notable for this article, and move everybody else to a list that can grow unboundedly. Also make it list of computer and video game people to finesse the computer game/video game debate. Dunno if composers need to be separate, unles useful for music-related articles? Stan 17:29, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

BTW, adding "notable" to a list of people is redundant; presumably we only add them because they're notable (or are we preparing for a list of non-notable video game people too? :-) ) Stan 17:32, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I'm fine with keeping Ken Kutaragi—I had no idea who he was and just being CEO of a gaming company doesn't, IMHO, make one "notable." If he is really the "father of the PS1 and PS2" we should perhaps add that to his credit line. I'm neutral on changing the heading to something else. But just "People" sounds too short to me. Awaiting further comments. —Frecklefoot 19:06, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

being CEO of a gaming company doesn't, IMHO, make one "notable.". Absolutely. I believe he was pretty junior when he started the PS1 project (in secret). Apparently playstation is the only division of Sony that keeps the whole company afloat, and it seems certain Kutaragi will be the next CEO of Sony as a whole. But I digress ... -- Finlay McWalter 19:36, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Plea to merge

Please can we merge Computer game and Video game? I see the discussion above, but we already have Adventure game and Interactive fiction. There is much duplication and it is frankly very confusing. 209.102.127.120 05:24, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Well, I'm in the camp of keeping them seperate. A computer game can be a video game, but not always. Some computer games aren't video games at all. There's a reason they are seperate. Yes, there is some duplication, but Wikipedia is not paper. —Frecklefoot 15:39, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I'm proposing that we take a crack at merging them at Talk:Computer game/Computer and video games - can we try, and then discuss it if we still hate it before we make any move? Mark Richards 19:03, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Notable list again

Just looking over the current state of the list again. It looks much better now, with the exception of two entries:

Yuji Horii -- Dragon Quest series, Chrono Trigger
Hironobu Sakaguchi -- Final Fantasy series and Chrono Trigger (Square Enix)

Are the Dragon Quest series and Chrono Trigger that big of a deal? I know Final Fantasy is very notable, but personally I can't recall the other two at all. I know we have a huge article on Dragon Quest, but that doesn't mean the game had a significant impact on the industry. Am I just out of touch or were the two game series actually as obscure as I think? —Frecklefoot 14:50, Apr 16, 2004 (UTC)

I'd agree that those two aren't very notable. Fredrik 00:23, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Dragon Quest, or Dragon Warrior in the US, was one of the first console RPGs, and remains insanely popular in Japan - as much so as Final Fantasy. Chrono Trigger is another Square RPG for the SNES that was at one point so popular that used copies of it were going for $100 on eBay until Square rereleased it for the Playstation. Both are classic RPGs, and belong on the list of notables. Though I agree with anyone who says the list needs to be expanded. Snowspinner 14:53, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Well, I'm with Fredrik that those games aren't that notable. I've worked in the video game industry since 1993 and I never heard of them. Granted, I'm not able to keep up with all games that come out, but the big ones I usually catch wind of. If they are just a phenomena in Japan, I doubt they desrve a place in the list.

Expanding the list is fine, just as long as the people are notable. For example, I wrote the article on Jordan Mechner, but I'm unsure whether he deserves a place in the list or not.

I don't want to engage in an edit war, so let's resolve this here before making any more changes. Anyone else want to jump into the debate? —Frecklefoot 15:12, Apr 20, 2004 (UTC)

Dragon Quest/Warrior has a devoted fandom in the US, though not as big as its Japanese fandom. That said, US-centrism is discussed in NPOV as something that we wish would go away, so its huge Japanese success is worth noting. (To give you an idea of scale, Dragon Quest is why Enix was a big enough name for Square to merge with them)

ChronoTrigger is not only successful in Japan, but in the US. As I said, it was at one point going for $100 used, and in the current GameFAQs "Best Game Ever" poll/contest it has the #1 seed in the 16-bit division. It's a wildly popular game.

I would argue against the inclusion of Mechner, on the other hand - his contributions seem to be technological rather than design-based, and the Prince of Persia series largely petered out, and doesn't really have a continued fanbase. (Even the release of Sands of Time hasn't spurred that much interest in the older games) But if you added him, I wouldn't go and delete him either. Snowspinner 15:21, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I didn't go off and just delete the entries. I asked for input first and the only response I got was "they're not notable" so I removed them (and left in the Final Fantasy creator Hironobu Sakaguchi). As far as Mechner goes, he designed, programmed (I think) and created the graphics for Prince of Persia. Even though PoP had an impact on the industry, I don't think it was significant enough to include in the list. And I agree that the new game isn't breaking any sort of records—the quality of animation in them is now pretty much industry standard. —Frecklefoot 15:36, Apr 20, 2004 (UTC)

It's fine - I'm not saying you just went off and deleted the entries. I just didn't notice this issue until I saw the edit go up on recent changes, and since it's a topic I'm knowledgeable on, I checked up on the edits. What I meant was that if he were on the list, I wouldn't object to it, but if he were not on the list, I wouldn't add him. Sorry if I came off as hostile. Are we agreed on leaving the Dragon Warrior and Chrono Trigger stuff then? Snowspinner 15:41, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Note to Snowspinner: GameFAQs polls are hardly a measure of anything :) But although it's true that these games are popular, popularity alone doesn't make the people behind them notable. This is really a minor issue though as long as the list is about as short as it is right now. Fredrik 15:43, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Were it just Chrono Trigger, that would be one thing. I think the Dragon Quest creator should definitely be included, however, and given that we have two creators of Chrono Trigger on the list already, it makes sense to mention it as one of their achievements.

I would like to see this list expanded, though - creator of Resident Evil? Mega Man? Roberta Williams? John Romero? I'll fix this sometime. Snowspinner 15:46, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I don't think the issue is settled until people stop talking about it here. :-) I agree that Roberta Williams should be included (kind of on the fence about Romero, however—after Daikatana, he's had a hard time getting respect anymore. Also, DOOM and Quake were more notable for their technology rather than their stories). —Frecklefoot 16:07, Apr 20, 2004 (UTC)

If I recall, though, Romero was also heavily doing level design, which I think the games were notable for. And even if, post-Daikatana, he's something of a wreck, what a spectacular flame-out. Indeed, he's a very notable flame-out. Snowspinner 16:11, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Romero did some level design for both DOOM and Quake, and both are acknowledged as having brilliant level design. He also did some programming for DOOM, but that was minor - he created the level editor and the game code for doors and elevators and such stuff. The reason Romero might be notable is that he used to be a superstar with an inflated super-ego, certainly one of the most recognized figures of the industry. What happened later with Daikatana hasn't reduced his notability, only converted fame into notoriousness. I don't quite support including him in the list at the moment, though. Fredrik 16:23, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

In general, "notable" should be a pretty broad category - if someone is worth writing a WP article about, they must be at least that notable! In the interests of NPOV, we want to look for ways to make the "notability" decision algorithmic rather than personal; I personally would make it broad and say "principal developer(s) of any published game", since that helps make a complete web of people and games, but one could also make it narrower and say "only people involved with million-sellers" or some such (and yes, that would cut out respected games with poor sales, thus my preference for "any game"). An additional shorter list of "most important" or "most influential" should simply quote some authority's list, we really don't want to get into ridiculous fights about whether Carmack is more important than Crawford or whatever. :-) Stan 16:09, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I think that those fights are important. I mean, yeah, it's a value judgment. But if we have enough people who seriously follow the video game industry discussing it, something sensible will get hammered out. Snowspinner 16:11, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

How about creating an article List of notable game industry figures (or something similar)? I think a complete list would be valuable, but I think it would just clutter the main article. This article could link to it and those interested could surf to it. I'd like to keep the list in the article concise. I'm not opposed to changing the name of the section, however. I like "Most influential," but that issue isn't a huge deal to me. —Frecklefoot 16:25, Apr 20, 2004 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable. I suggest List of people in the game industry and keeping the list in video game about as concise as it is right now. The longer list could be sectioned into game designers, composers, artists, company executives, etc. Fredrik 16:31, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Here, here! The list we have in the article could be used as a springboard for anyone interested in creating it. But I vote for List of game industry people or List of game industry figures. —Frecklefoot 16:34, Apr 20, 2004 (UTC)

Major figures in the video game industry, perhaps? Or maybe just Major figures in video games, but that list sounds like it might be Mario, Link, Sonic, etc. Snowspinner 16:56, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I agree. Perhaps List of game industry people is the best option. It is unambiguous and identical in meaning to List of people in the game industry, just more concise. For lists, I think we have to begin the name with "List." —Frecklefoot 17:03, Apr 20, 2004 (UTC)

Sounds good. Fredrik 17:11, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Done! Snowspinner 17:16, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Video games vs Console games

We're having the mergence debate over at Category:Computer and video games as well. My first question is what the difference is between a Video game and a Console game. If there isn't any, then I suggest that we use Video game as the umbrella term and Console game to refer to those specifically for any console.

Not only would be it be linguistically correct (all arcade and computer games are technically video games), but it would allow us to keep the articles and their histories seperate while giving us a managable name (other wise we'd need something like List of sports computer, arcade and video games, which is just unwieldly). Oberiko 10:15, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Console game, arcade game, video game, and computer game are very similar terms, but not identical. Console games and arcade games are mutually exclusive subsets of video games (although there are some arcade games that have been remade into console games, muddying the mutual-exclusion slightly). Computer games and video games overlap, but neither are subsets of each other. The water is even further muddied by the Xbox. Computer or console? Here's a Venn diagram of how I see the terms (not to scale):

  -------------------------------
 |                               |
 |          Video games          |
 |                               |
 |    ---------      --------    |
 |   | Console |    | Arcade |   |
 |   |  games  |    |  games |   |
 |    ---------      --------    |
 |                               |
 |            -------------------+-------
 |           |                   |       |
  -----------+-------------------        |
             |                           |
             |       Computer games      |
             |                           |
              ---------------------------

Almost _all_ of the computer games that fall outside of the "video games" territory are old text-based "adventures". I don't think there's been a major new non-video computer game written in at least ten years. Feel free to prove me wrong, though. - Plutor 17:56, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I think the real problem is that "computer games", on Wikipedia and elsewhere, is mainly used to refer to "PC games instead of console games" rather than "electronic games that may or may not use video". Fredrik (talk) 18:27, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Maybe on computer game we could add something like:

There are two common definitions for "computer game":

1. Any electronic game

2. An electronic game, particularly a video game, played on a personal computer

This article is about the latter.

Fredrik (talk) 18:45, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

How many people use the term computer game to refer to a game that isn't played on a computer? Would you call Poker a board game? Sarcasm aside, maybe this is a regional or international dialect issue? Where do you live? The only use of "computer game" I have ever heard is use 2. My Venn diagram simply demonstrates that some computer games don't use video (i.e. Zork), and thus aren't video games. - Plutor 19:29, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The very point is the difference between computer and personal computer (since a console is, technically speaking, also a computer). Computer game points to computer, but should instead point to personal computer if we accept definition 2 as being the norm. Fredrik (talk) 19:52, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

What I would like to do is use Video games as a universal cover-all umbrella term which then has three children, Console games, Arcade games, and PC games. It would allow a quick designation for things (say, for example, a Baseball game is available for all systems, right now it would have to be under the category Category:Baseball computer, arcade and video games as oppossed to just Category:Baseball video games.

As for the computer games that aren't part of video games, perhaps have a linking article within the PC games category that points to non-video computer games. Oberiko 22:26, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The name "PC games" might upset Mac people, though :) - Fredrik (talk) 22:41, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Aren't Mac's considered a type of Personal Computer, even on technicallity? Even so, it's still simpler to solve this with a modified system then the current one I'd think. Oberiko 23:43, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Vote

We're holding a vote on wheter or not Video games should be an umbrella term or not. Go to Category talk:Computer and video games to cast. Oberiko 12:29, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Extern links

The extern links section is getting pretty lengthy. I propose we split it up into different sub-sections to make it more useful. Example sub-sections could include Reviews, Technical info, Development, Directories, etc. Anyone have any other subsection ideas? — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:11, Jul 30, 2004 (UTC)

Choosing article names by what they are called in their production locale

It has come to concern me that the English language Wikipedia articles for video game topics tend to center on the North American or United States locales for naming articles. For example, we have article names like Final Fantasy Legend and Samurai Shodown, which were not the names of these games in their production locale, Japan. Now it seems to me that, this being the English Wikipedia, it really has nothing to do with nationality — we are not Americans, not British, not Canadian, not Australian, not New Zealander, etc. When we are here, we are more simply anglophones, English-speakers, and we can come from any place on earth, whether or not it is an anglophone country. So I propose this: We name all video game related articles first according to the names of their production locale, with redirects going to that article name, and sometimes with additional articles if the subject has a very different nature in a non-native locale, such as with the separate PC Engine and TurboGrafx 16 articles. - Gilgamesh 10:12, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Also notice the Mega Man article, which is called "Rockman" in its production locale Japan, and was renamed "Mega Man" in North America and Europe for marketing purposes. All alternative names (and an indication of where those names are used) could be mentioned on a single canonical article in most cases. - Gilgamesh 10:12, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

There is no "native" or "alternative" -- the market is global, and often games gain release in many countries on the same date, or are released in "non-native" locales first. The "native" names aren't any more official than the others, but changing all pages so they redirect to the "native" names will imply that they are. That isn't a bit more helpful than mentioning the various names in the opener. Naming conventions in general say we go with the most common English name for a title. And to be frank, I don't want to have to put up with arguing over petty details like whether this or that is a better title, how to transliterate the name, and what country the huge, multinational corporation is actually native to. Things like Luigi Mario, the Baby Mario debates, and Miles Prower already give me a headache. ~ FriedMilk 13:28, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)

Standardisation of videogame region terminology

Moved to WikiProject Computer and Video Games.

Screenshot

Any danger of a better screenshot than this? Intrigue 23:16, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It doesn't look too bad to me. Is there anything particular wrong with it? Perhaps you could have a look at Category:Fair_use_screenshots, and pick one of the 522 images that you look. Actually, not all are video games (or indeed games of any sort), but there are a number of video game images there to have a look at. Silverfish 00:51, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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