Talk:Victor Vasarely

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Contents

[edit] Vasarely's birth date

Victor was born April 9, 1906 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.184.214.63 (talk • contribs)

All my art history books (including Janson and Arnason) mention 1908 so I presume that's correct... - Spinster 19:08, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Victor Vasarely was born in 1906 and next year we celebrate his centenary. This date was confirmed by Michèle Vagaysarely, his daughter-in-law.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.177.20.111 (talk • contribs)
Apparently, his birthday was mistakenly recorded as being in 1908 for years until an interview with Le Figuro in 1996.81.104.164.95 20:14, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Victor Vasarely was born April 9, 1906, like above; some years ago Michèle Vasarely looked for the really date of birth in archives of Pecs. It's correct 9 April. Bye, --82.48.215.204 (talk) 17:42, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Now is correct...and with a note, well. Silverglory (talk) 22:30, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV warning

I must say that the The Vasarely Foundation part doesn't seem very NPOV to me. Maybe someone who has enough knowledge of Mr. Vasarely could rework the section? Husky 00:01, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

fukin dont av a clue —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.66.95.69 (talk • contribs)
fuk of —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.66.95.69 (talk • contribs)
Yeah, I can't but agree (with Husky, not the anon vandal). I removed all of the following:
The Vasarely Foundation
What has happened to the Vasarely Foundation, a non-profit making institution, acknowledged of public utility in 1971, conceived and financed by Claire and Victor Vasarely ? This institution was doted with inalienable and alienable donations for over more than twenty five years within the framework of the French legislation on foundations, a legislation which is very hard to please and yet so permeable. The Vasarely Foundation was managed from 1981 to 1993 by the Aix-Marseille III University of Law, Economics and Sciences, today the Paul Cézanne University.
November 27, 1990, the date of the death of Claire Vasarely, the wife of Victor Vasarely, marks the beginning of long and difficult legal proceedings which ended on May 11, 2005 by the final sentencing of Charles Debbasch, the University's former Dean and the former president of the institution, before the Court of Appeals of Aix-en-Provence, France. Mrs Michèle-Catherine Taburno-Vasarely, the founders' daughter-in-law, who dealt with the interests of the Vasarely heirs (André and Jean-Pierre), and the former president of the Foundation from 1995 to 1997, took possession in 1997, the year of Victor Vasarely's death, of almost 500 original inalienable works of art from the Gordes didactic Museum (closed since 1996), of 798 inalienable studies on Art and the City from the Aix-en-Provence architectonic Centre and around 18000 alienable multiples.
Formerly inalienable works have been expatriated and sold off. The Vasarely estate owes the tax administration several million euros. The Foundation's Board of Directors refuses to acknowledge the reality of its status. The Vasarely Foundation has been bled and is nothing but an empty shell. At several months from the centinary of Victor Vasarely's birth and the thirtieth anniversary of the opening of the Aix-en-Provence architectonic Centre (2006), the Association for the Defence and Promotion of Vasarely’s work presided by Pierre Vasarely, Victor Vasarely’s grand-son and legatee, is struggling to recover the work taken from the Vasarely Foundation.
Feel free to re-write it, someone. I'm going to remove the POV-tag. Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 19:05, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

The same text was added again and I removed it. --Dada 08:12, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Added again, removed it again. Image:Huskyeye.jpg Husky (talk page) 14:51, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pöstyén

Instead of reverting each other, here you can add a proposal for the right wording about how to include the Hungarian name for one of the places where he was raised. Squash Racket (talk) 08:10, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

For such cases, we have WP:NCGN. I see no reason why not to respect the existing naming convention. It brings consistency into Wikipedia and reflects a wider consensus between editors. You should provide a real argument to convince me that your solution is more sensible than the whole naming convention in this particular case. Your statement "today Piešťany" is not true because Piešťany has been called Piešťany since the Middle Ages. It does not matter whether Hungarian authorities used the magyarized name Pöstyén instead in 1914. What matters is under what name the town is known in recent English sources in the historical context. Let me quote from WP:NCGN: "The contents (this applies to all articles using the name in question): The same name as in title [of the article about the place in question, i.e. Piešťany in this case] should be used consistently throughout the article. Exceptions are allowed only if there is a widely accepted historic English name for a specific historical context. In cases when a widely accepted historic English name is used, it should be followed by the modern English name in parentheses on the first occurrence of the name in applicable sections of the article in the format: "historical name (modern name)." If you believe Pöstyén is a widely accepted historic English name of Piešťany, this page lists the evidence you should provide. Tankred (talk) 02:58, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
I looked at the page of the village and saw nothing on etymology or history of the name. Do you have a source stating the Slavic name was the original? (I guess you already have a list of these.)
We both know there are a lot of historic names mentioned on Wikipedia without providing the strict evidence claimed by the guideline WP:NCGN. No wonder it is flexible and it refers to common sense in its first paragraph. Squash Racket (talk) 05:26, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Since you argue that we should not use the naming convention here, the burden of proof is upon you. I still do not know what you consider the "common sense" and why. Tankred (talk) 15:31, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
I also think the problem lies in the current form of WP:NCGN. If English sources tend to use the Hungarian form of that name in Vasarely's CV (just tried Google), only Wikipedia would be an exception? Common sense tells me no.
Also a qoute from your talk page: "I guess you meant that the town was better known under its Hungarian name at the time Vasarely lived there. But you should have chosen better wording." That is why I asked for a proposal on the right wording on how to include the Hungarian name, but you seem to have changed your mind. Squash Racket (talk) 07:10, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
I did not change my mind. I did not support your edit at that time, I merely tried to guess why you made it. If you are unhappy with WP:NCGN, you should propose its change at the naming convention's talk page, not here. As to your argument, there are only nine pages (in English and outside Wikipedia) using "Pöstyén" in connection with Vasarely[1] while 65 pages (with the same criteria) use "Piešťany"[2]. So, most English sources actually use "Piestany". If you want to know the Hungarian name of the town, you can click on the wikilink to Piestany because the main article on that town also includes the town's names in other languages. There is no reason to include them elsewhere in Wikipedia. Moreover, you did not provide any evidence supporting your claim that your description of Piestany as "Postyen (today Piestany)" is factually correct. So, is there any other reason why we should violate WP:NCGN on this page or I can restore the previous version of the article? Tankred (talk) 13:29, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Pöstyén is the only official name at the time, so your version (he grew up in Piestany) would be factually incorrect and misleading to the readers. Also you should be aware that it is not possible to "violate" a guideline such as NCGN, you can violate rules, regulations, laws, but not suggestions, advice and the like. Wikipedia is based on consensus and combative style of editing and statements like "There is no reason to include them elsewhere in Wikipedia" will not get you very far in any case. Hobartimus (talk) 16:11, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
WP:NCGN is a naming convention, not a random "suggestion". Since you have not presented any argument, I will restore the version compliant with the naming convention and the evidence provided on this talk page. Tankred (talk) 23:59, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Let me quote you the first few letters from NCGN, "{{Wikipedia subcat guideline", so as you can see in wikipedia terms it is a guideline I counted over 60 guidelines just like it for naming issues alone! You should not misrepresent it as if it were some kind of rule, regulation or law, by using rhetoric like ("violating" "non-compliant"), anyway this is a talk page for a specific article, so the issues at hand should be discussed. What are everybody's thoughts on the compromise version introduced by user Piotrus? Hobartimus (talk) 11:10, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
And what is your argument regarding this particular article? 65 English sources use Piestany in connection with Vasarely and only 9 use Postyen. I hope you are aware this is the English Wikipedia, not the Hungarian one. Tankred (talk) 16:48, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you wanted to say with that, did anyone remove the name Piestany from the article? Hobartimus (talk) 17:28, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Are you serious? Why should we flood articles in the English Wikipedia with names that are barely used in English sources? Tankred (talk) 17:37, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

OK, also mentioning Austria-Hungary in brackets would help clarify things. Sometimes I get the feeling the present form of WP:NCGN forces every single English/American reader to learn about the Treaty of Trianon with Hungarian and Slavic names changing constantly in a lot of articles. Squash Racket (talk) 15:10, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] death

How did he die? I'm guessing he died from old age, but it doesn't say so I'm not sure.--4.244.42.249 (talk) 15:44, 10 April 2008 (UTC)