Talk:Verna Fields

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Good article Verna Fields has been listed as one of the Arts good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
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[edit] Did editing save "Jaws?"

An editor mentioned the claim that Fields "saved" the film Jaws with her editing. The origin of this claim isn't exactly clear, but it was challenged in a letter to the New York Times by one of the film's screenwriters, Carl Gottlieb. See "FILM EDITING: 'Jaws' Did Not Need Saving". Easchiff 12:42, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Draft Filmography in Alternate Format

Steven Spielberg Peter Bogdanovich George Lucas H. Kaye Dyal Jack McCallum
1972 What's Up, Doc?
1973 The Sugarland Express Paper Moon American Graffiti Sing a Country Song
1974 Daisy Miller Memory of Us
1975 Jaws

Easchiff 02:03, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Quote about Jaws and Verna Fields from Mr. & Mrs. Hollywood.

From Sharp, Kathleen (2003). Mr. & Mrs. Hollywood: Edie and Lew Wasserman and Their Entertainment (Carroll and Graf Publishers), p. 319. ISBN 0786712201. The description of post-production for Jaws seems oversimplified, and I chose not to use it; it does illustrate the perception that Verna Fields "saved Jaws." Easchiff 01:33, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

By the time Spielberg had returned to Universal City, he had spent $10 million and nearly six months to deliver a film that was still a mess. Mother Cutter went to work, and excised much of the shark footage, focusing instead on the actor's emotional reactions to the man-eating creatures. The difference was thrilling. Finally, the movie was ready to release.

[edit] GA Review

This article is off to a very promising start, but there are problems with both the prose and formatting (GA criteria 1a and b) that need to be addressed before it can be become a Good Article.

  • Please read WP:DATE on how to format dates of birth and death; you can copy and paste the Charles Darwin example and simply replace the name and dates, but keep the en-dash and links.
  • In the first phase of her career, Fields mostly worked on television shows, on experimental, independent films (such as The Savage Eye (1959)) and on government-supported documentaries, and as a film instructor at the University of Southern California: this is too broad of a sentence and almost becomes a run on. If Fields mostly worked on television shows, then keep it at that. She can't have mostly worked on four things. The verb agreements do not match up, either; "Fields mostly worked on television shows and experimental, independent films"; there is no need to repeat "on" for each example.
  • I suggest shaping the lead section into two separate paragraphs; her early life and work and then her late career success and impact. Right now it seems somewhat smashed together and it's difficult to make the transition from unknown to success.
  • The term "mother cutter" is lost on me and may require clarification if it remains in the lead.
  • The tale of a giant shark's terrorizing of a summer beach resort is the archetypal "summer blockbuster" film: this sentence, although sourced, has nothing to do with Fields or her involvement in the film. I would cut it or replace it with something explicitly about her.
  • Her career as an executive was cut short by her untimely death in 1982: "untimely" is always a bad idea, especially in a lead; this is awkward and needlessly dramatic.
  • See MOS:CAPS: Capitalize the first letter of the first word and any proper nouns in headings, but leave the rest lower case. Thus "Rules and regulations", not "Rules and Regulations".
  • Cities like St. Louis, Missouri need to be wikilinked, but external links, like the one used for Samuel Hellman, need to be removed. External links should only exist in the External links section. (WP:EL)
  • In 1946, she married the film editor Sam Fields. She stopped working, and had two sons with him: very choppy. "She married film editor Sam Fields in 1946 and they had two sons; Fields stopped working in order to raise their children"?
  • Is it known how Sam Fields died?
  • She installed a film editing lab at her home so that she could work at night there while her children were young, and she told her children that she was the "Queen of Saturday morning": this is a run on. "She installed a film editing lab in her home so that she could work at night while her children were young; she told them that she was the 'Queen of Saturday morning'."
  • By 1956, she was working as a sound editor on films as well. Her first credit as a sound editor was for Fritz Lang's While the City Sleeps: choppy and re-using "sound editor" soon becomes repetitive. "...she was also working as a sound editor." "Her first film credit was for..."
  • She was the sound editor for the experimental documentary The Savage Eye (1959, co-directed by Ben Maddow, Sidney Meyers, and Joseph Strick), and in 1961 Fields won the Motion Picture Sound Editors Golden Reel Award for the film El Cid (directed by Anthony Mann).: Again repetitive and run on. "She worked on the experimental documentary..." (directors unnecessary). "Two years later Fields won the..."
  • It is uncommon to find detailed descriptions of the work of sound editors, and even Fields' Golden Reel Award is unaccompanied by any such description: this is filler and may be construed as OR as there's no source.
  • Block quotes are to be used only if the quote is four or more lines long; there are nine in the article and none are longer than three.
  • has recently attracted the attention of a number of critics, perhaps drawn by the 2003 DVD release and Bogdanovich's commentary on it: This needs further explanation; it's far too vague ("a number of critics" and "perhaps") for it to be of any value. There is also no need to give a plot description on cited films -- they're wikilinked for a reason.
  • Through 1969, Fields edited about another half-dozen independent and minor studio films, and she also took on a position with the federal Office of Economic Opportunity (OEO) in which she edited (and in one case directed) a variety of documentary films for the OEO, the United States Information Agency (USIA), and the U.S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare (HEW): serious run on. "Through 1969, Fields edited about another half-dozen independent and minor studio films. She also took on a position with the federal..."
  • In the 1960s Fields also taught film editing at the University of Southern California (USC): remove "also"
  • The transcript probably gives some of the flavor of her teaching: "probably"? Since it's uncertain, this sentence serves no purpose. Cut and include the block quote with the rest of the paragraph.
  • The "Film editing and teaching" is fragmented; take the quotes and lone sentences and make a nice, meaty paragraph or two.
  • Fields had been the sound editor for one of Peter Bogdanovich's first films, Targets (1968).[11] She re-entered the conventional film business as a film editor when Bogdanovich recruited her to edit What's Up Doc? (1972). She edited the next two of Bogdanovich's films (Paper Moon (1973) and Daisy Miller (1974)) as well: this brings us back in time, since Targets (remove wikilink) was mentioned in the above section. There's no need to repeat what was already stated (she worked as a sound editor on Targets), so just say that she re-entered the conventional film business as a film editor when Bogdanovich, who she had previously worked with, recruited her What's Up Doc? and others.
  • In 1972, George Lucas was directing the filming of American Graffiti, which tells the interwoven stories of several new high school graduates on the last summer night before two of them leave town for college. The town itself is an inland California town somewhat like Modesto, where Lucas grew up: cut the backstory and plot details; "directing the filming of" is awkward -- do you mean to say "directing the film American Graffiti"?
  • It's odd to link Marcia Lucas but not Marcia Griffin; instead link [[Marcia Lucas|Marcia Griffin]] when she is first mentioned and replace "Marcia Lucas" with just "his wife"; at first I thought these were two separate people.
  • There's no need to repeat first and last names (Verna Fields and George Lucas) in one section; Fields and Lucas are fine.
  • Marsha Lucas: Marcia?
  • Fields became widely celebrated...": the previous sentence also started with "Fields"; replace with "She".
  • Leonard Maltin has characterized her editing as "sensational.": period goes outside the quotation mark.
  • Gerald Peary interviewed Fields in 1980. He wrote: rewrite as "Gerald Peary, who interviewed Fields in 1980, wrote:"
  • Peary quotes Fields as saying that: verb disagreement -- "wrote" and now "quotes" pick past or present tense; I vote for past. Again, get rid of the block quotes.
  • Perhaps the greatest compliment to the editing of Jaws is that it has been intensely studied for over thirty years. this is a great, wonderfully sourced tidbit, but I fear it's worded the wrong way in that the focus is taken away by the uncertain "perhaps" and the cliché of the "greatest compliment". You can phrase it as simply as "Fields' editing work on Jaws has been intensely studied for over thirty years" or something similar.
  • A recent example is Susan Korda's 2005 lecture, "We'll Fix It In the Edit!?," at the Berlinale Talent Campus. Korda, who is a film editor, broadly explains the contribution of the editing to the film as follows: We're in the present tense again, but 2005 isn't that recent any more. "In film editor Susan Korda's 2005 lecture... she explained the contribution..."
  • "wipe by cut," punctuation goes outside the quotation marks unless it's part of the quotation itself.
  • Jeannot Szwarc was hired, however, to complete the film: "Jeannot Szwarc, however, was hired..."
  • She died of cancer in Encino, California in 1982: Replace "she" with "Fields" as the previous sentence mentioned someone else.
  • The last two paragraphs in the "Management for Universal Studios" section are not about Fields' management work. Perhaps move these into a new section?
  • "Verna Fields Building;" punctuation.

This looks like a lot, but with some dedication this can be improved greatly in a short amount of time. Like I said, it's a great start on a fascinating person, but it will need to address its prose and formatting issues before it can become a Good Article. I'll put it on hold for now, which will give you a week to work out the kinks. If there are any questions and concerns, just let me know. María (habla conmigo) 15:29, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Take two

This is progressed greatly since I last read it; wonderful work! I have a few minor points (mostly punctuation), but I have no doubt that this article is GA standard. Congrats! :)

  • Douglas Gomery wrote of her time at USC that:[9] "... her greatest impact..: since the quote is no longer a block quote, this should be changed so that the ref follows the quotation. Also, you could remove the ellipses and colon so that it flows more naturally.
  • "There's a feeling of movement in telling a story and there is a flow. A cut that is off-rhythm will be disturbing and you will feel it, unless you want it to be like that. On Jaws, each time I wanted to cut I didn't, so that it would have an anticipatory feeling - and it worked.": there's no citation for this quote; is it ref #10? Also, the dash should be an em-dash.
  • George Lucas Lucas: extra "Lucas"
  • She had also hired Marcia Griffin for the job, and introduced them. Griffin and Lucas subsequently married. In 1972, George Lucas was directing American Graffiti. While Lucas had intended that his wife Marcia Lucas would edit the film, Universal Studios asked him to add Verna Fields to the editing team: this still has a few problems. Unlink Marcia Lucas and preferably replace with "his wife" since it's already linked previously. "...introduced them; Griffin and Lucas subsequently married."
  • Roger Greenspun described the film and its editing:[14]: citation after quotation.
  • ...who interviewed Fields in 1980, wrote: [5]: ditto
  • ...she broadly explained the contribution of editing to the film:[18]
  • Fields told Peary in 1980 that:[5]
  • They feel I belong to them, and they feel a certain resentment - that I went to the other side: em-dash
  • Joel Schumacher was quoted in 1982 as saying:[22]
  • And finally, I suggest removing the IMDb links from the External links that are not for Verna Fields. Typically articles only link to IMDb in the EL if it's for the individual that the article is dedicated to.

Again, great job! I greatly admire the dedication and hope to see more lesser known filmmakers at GAC in the future. María (habla conmigo) 14:17, 24 February 2008 (UTC)