Talk:Verizon FiOS

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 2007-06-19. The result of the discussion was Speedy close.

Contents

[edit] cutting copper

The AP link the article references on Verizon cutting copper cables is a dead link. Digg.com's article links to Yahoo news, but that article is down, too. In short, I can't find any reputable sources reporting the story. And that's strange, because it was all over the tech news last month. It seems very fishy to me, does anyone know anything about this apparent media blackout?

  • There is no policy of pulling copper, infact they prefer to leave it there because if the customer pressures them into a rollback, it's more work to put in a new line. If the user's conduit is damaged, then the installers may be forced to remove it to place the fiber optic cable. Copper is usually CUT from the user's phone system because the ONT provides its own POTS, but the wire is still going from your house to the curb 99% of the time. This is the same stuff as the techs that accidentally set fire to a customer's house. Or the installers that hit a gas line while bringing new conduit to the customer's house. It's a construction project, and sometimes 'stuff' happens, no matter how careful you are.

[edit] competitors' offerings, and other info

Where should this info go? See-also links to new articles?

Adelphia's Extreme High-Speed Internet (Leesburg, VA) Cablevision's 100Mbps symmetrical data service (NY) SBC/Yahoo/AT&T's Project U-Verse (fiber to the node [1] [2] [3] )

Lightspeed is not and NEVER will be a competitor for FIOS, Verizon and ATT are both monopoly telelphone companies, telephone markets NEVER overlap. Either you will get FIOS one day or Lightspeed, never both. Patcat88 19:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps we create a new category called Fiber Optic Broadband or Optical Broadband (or something similar) and then create initial separate stub pages for the Adelphia Extreme and the SBC Project Lightspeed. We can update those stubs as more information on the services becomes available.

Just a suggestion. -wadems 03:22, July 28, 2005 (UTC)

Looks like there's an Category:Optical fiber category now. Still no entries on Adelphia, Cablevision, or SBC's offerings. - Brewthatistrue

[edit] criticisms

sometimes they remove the copper lines. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/07/AR2005050700178.html http://news.com.com/2061-10785_3-5701533.html http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=06/06/07/2244215&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=nested&cid=15491071 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=06/06/07/2244215&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=nested&cid=15491058

Criticism? How about Verizon puts your name+address on some people's static IP# records?

{FIOS Releases your private info} CaribDigita 21:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TOS

I have criticism of their TOS for FIOS. For example, you are not allowed to tarnish Verizon's name using the service.

What would be most appropriate?

  • Add a criticism section to the article - 1 votes
  • Create a web page and link to it - 0 votes
  • Gather support of my criticisms first - 0 votes
  • Do nothing, its not appropriate content - 3 votes
  • Other?

Thanks for any feedback. --Dustball 18:23, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a user forum for non-notable folks' complaints; see Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. Try http://www.broadbandreports.com or http://www.lightreading.com (their forums) for that sort of discussion. If some big name individual or publication makes critical remarks, those are allowed be cited in this article. You might look at the somewhat similar discussion of what is and isn't appropriate on the FTTH talk page at Talk:Fiber to the premises#User:192.76.80.74 edits. --A. B. 16:11, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

He had a valid remark and you feel that you need to quote rules. You're not dictator of Wikipedia nor of the internet. The only things stupider than a mistake is a self righteous moron who points something out and winds up wrong himself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.143.238.48 (talk) 17:57, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Criticism" Section

I think that entire section should be removed, due to a lack of evidence and fact. Verizon is rolling out major infrastructure changes, and it costs money to do so.

In Fort Wayne, Verizon -- due to negotiations with the city -- developed the poorer areas prior to doing the higher-income areas. Greenlead 16:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Maybe the wording can be softened, but otherwise the section is fairly on-target. I happen to live in a relatively affluent service "island" of perhaps 20,000 Verizon customers, surrounded by a competing telephone provider. Even though we're next to the famed high-tech "Silicon Valley", the likelihood of getting Verizon FiOS in this community before 2015 is essentially zilch. More likely, Verizon will be bought out before we ever see fiber service to our house walls. —QuicksilverT @ 22:55, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

In Pennsylvania almost 40% of communities where FiOS is being deployed are either more diverse or have lower average incomes than the counties in which they are located. 198.23.5.73 19:38, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree, I will eradicate it. -FpsFugazi

[edit] 911 / emergency services dependent on power?

Will fiber-only telephone services have the same level of reliability as copper? Will service continue to work during a power outage?

  • It works for several hours on battery, and can be re-enabled for short periods after that. jesup 20:43, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Verizon installs an uninterrupted power supply when they install Fios. Although telephone service is dependant on the power grid, this backup power should last several hours in case of power outages, if I understand it correctly. Evilrhino 02:12, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Battery Backup

I'm writing this from a FIOS line, and I have disconnected the power. If this saves correctly, the article is inaccurate: The Battery Backup _DOES_ hold the data network up.05:00, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

The ONT will maintain data and video services for 5 minutes in case of a minor outage that temporarily disrupts the home's AC power, the duration can be extended, decreased, or removed altogether. This is set within the ONT itself and has nothing to do with the BBU. During a long power outage, all non-essential services will be cut to reserve power for emergency phone calls. The newer BBUs being deployed are equiped with an Emergency Use button which allows the user to restore power back to the ONT for a short time. The BBU will automatically shut off after it drains to a specified level, thereby leaving some emergency charge left for this purpose. --Toddyboy711 21:32, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

[edit] Cleanup?

Since I tagged this weeks ago it has made a dramatic recovery Sure, it can be expanded, but I think it is pretty well written and structured and this point. Whats your say? Mkaycomputer 17:02, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

It is better, but is it different enough to be considered cleaned up?

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=FiOS&diff=25638327&oldid=24107204

[edit] Removed cleanup tag

In helping to clear up the backlog of cleanup requests, I reviewed this article, its talk page, and edit history. It is unclear why a cleanup tag was applied, and a reading of the article did not reveal what issues have not been addressed. I have removed the cleanup tag so that editors can concentrate on more obvious cases. If you still think cleanup is required, please use one of the specific issue cleanup templates instead. Thanks, --MCB 23:24, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Got rid of pricing data.

The pricing data was just completely wrong, so I deleted it. I'd bet that prices are going to fluctuate anyway, so unless someone is going to babysit them (which nobody currently is doing), I think the prices should be left off. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.186.49.36 (talk • contribs) Sorry about the signature thing.I Use Dial 03:17, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Pricing and availability of plans depends almost entirely upon the local competition. Greenlead 03:04, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Should consider removing the list of areas

Unless someone is going to be refreshing that data religiously, that should be left to places like broadbandreports.com. It was useful perhaps when there were just a few, but now there are many. At most, give a listing of states and major cities. jesup 20:43, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree, assuming there are sites that keep track of this information better. The states should be listed, but not cities or counties. If we remove information, it would be nice to make the "external links" section clearer so it is obvious where to find that information elsewhere. 71.103.98.22 22:27, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

The previous poster is right, all the areas just make the article painfully long and is just unimportant information. It also adds to the page seeming like an advertisement. The page is about what FiOS is, how it works, what it does, not what cities it's available in. I'm deleting the cities and leaving the states, unless someone objects. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.126.226.44 (talk • contribs)

I support. With this list it looks more like a Verizon's service directory, which wikipedia is definitely not. This would certainly contribute to cleanup currently needed to remove the ad-like impression given by the current article. --BACbKA 18:53, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep it. I link through the Maryland link to the build schedule every month to find out if they're doing my street yet (so far - no). Whether it meets some vague criteria for inclusion, it's useful to me and I would wager to others. As far as I know, this is the first true FTTP commercial implementation in the US and is significant and interesting for that reason alone. 204.149.81.4 21:08, 30 November 2006 (UTC)BigOldGeek

I agree that the list of coverage areas is useful, I was searching for a coverage map and was directed to this page. Anyone care to explain why D.C. is on this list, I don't think it should be. There's coverage in the MD and VA suburbs, but not in D.C. itself.71.163.198.250 05:25, 14 December 2006 (UTC)anynon

I think the list of areas should stay. I would say alot more broadband users know about wikipedia than broadbandreports.com. While talking to Verizon CSR's they say, "well you guys can see the trucks around we cant. The people usually know about deployment in their area before it is even available for me to see in the system." This availability portion of the Verizon Fios article seems to go into more depth than broadband reports. In this it actually specifies is there TV, is there Internet, is there even negotiations? People contribute to Wikipedia and people know what is going on in their town/neighboring towns. -FpsFugazi

I modifed the service offering for Montgomery County, MD becasue it was wrong (there is no TV offering as of today). - DMM 12/27/2006

I think if people want to keep the list of areas up to date, it should be split into a different article. dj 12/28/06

[edit] Forget the locations!

Amen. Dump the FiOS locations to either a new page or for good--either way-- it doesn't belong on this page!! I'm obligated to help! Lets just do it instead of talking about it for ages. Feel free to contact me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.239.163.83 (talk • contribs)

OK - I made the new page. It's my first new article...I hope I did ok... Dj stone 23:29, 14 January 2007 (UTC) dj

I like. - 71.103.112.88 23:02, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Verizon Product information

In my not so humble opinion, this article is starting to read like an advertisement for Verizon. Much of this information is unnecessary and does not belong on Wikipedia. Information like the TOS,pricing schedule, and particular plan details don't seem like they belong in an encyclopaedic article. There are websites like broadbandreports.com that deal with this exact thing. Does anyone else agree? --Kooky (talk) 21:47, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree, some of this should be removed. 71.103.98.22 22:27, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I strongly agree as well. The highly POV and ad-ish "binding for the future" heading makes me suspect somebody with financial interest in the tech is editing the article. Let's hope I'm wrong and it's just a bunch of fancruft. I'm going to slap the advert tag on the article right away. --BACbKA 20:17, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

What would you suggest, "Investment in Infrastructure", "Infrastucture Investments", "Infrastructure Development"?
If it sounds bold, that's because it is, especially in contrast to others who seem to be hoping for cheaper alternatives than infrastructure investment. 71.103.148.60 22:57, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

"Infrastructure Development" seems the most neutral to me. But what really gets me is the lead of the article, which is written in a deep marketing-speak. Any references to the future (even if they're stated as "... expected ...") in there should be referenced with something, and not with the verizon's own fios-promo material. --BACbKA 06:29, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Advertisement Tag Removed

This information is all ojective, not subjective and 99.9% of this article is facts. People use wikipedia as an source of information. They may want to know how much this new fiber network will cost them per month, seeing as how the network yields relatively high bandwidth rates compared to copper. -FpsFugazi

[edit] Reading like a Verizon commercial

I agree with the former comment that this article is reading too much like a commercial for Verizon. It would, for example, be better to remove the detailed city by city listing of FiOS service and replace that with a link to Verizon's website for that kind of info.

The article can just list the major markets in the US where FiOS is availble.

Lets try to keep this both concise and NPOV.

Tony 20:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

The problem with doing only that is that it does nothing concerning the article name. Presumably other suppliers offer FiOS service, possibly with a different name. If they use a different name, we need a generic name. Will (Talk - contribs) 08:33, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


"Verizon includes the Actiontec MI424-WR Coax-enabled broadband home wireless-G router now for free with installations. " To me this line reads like an ad. ~~

Looks decent finally. I can only pray that sneaky marketing/fanboy edits don't pollute it again. For the record (and following the accusation on the AfD page), I am 1) not working for a competitor 2) actually I am a previously (when I lived in NJ) satisfied customer of Verizon (not FiOS service, though) 3) presently I live in Israel and I have no business relationship with either Verizon or its competitors. Sorry if that's just feeding the trolls --- with my own frustration about, in this case. pro-verizon marketing through WP I can easily imagine others' dislike for any anti-verizon motivated edits. --BACbKA 10:28, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I just wanted to chime in and say that as of 2007-09-17, at least one user (me) does not find this article to be a problem despite it being flagged as "written like an advertisement". I came here seeking objective information about a subject (the offerings of Verizon's "FiOS" service), and I found it. The content of the page appeared to me to be comprehensive and objective, and it was useful to me. I'd be in favor of removing the "written like an advertisement" flag. But I'll leave actual changes to people more familiar with wikipedia practices and I'll just chime in here with my opinion. mcherm 13:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Let's move it to FIOS

Instead of killing this article, I think we should move it to FIOS and make it for all ISPs with the technology. It is a topic I was going to request when I found the redirect. (Strangely, the redirect did not show up in my search. I don't know why. I saw it when I was previewing my changes to the request page.) -Will Pittenger 20:41, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. FIOS not the correct acronym for Fiber Optic Service If one were to genericize it, the article should be called just "FiOS", or, according to Wikipedia's silly naming rules, "Fios". —QuicksilverT @ 00:06, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] IPTV link?

Should this be linked from the IPTV and / or Internet TV pages as well?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPTV —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.44.172.15 (talk • contribs)

It appears to be linked now via the { { CATV } } (no spaces) tag. 71.103.114.42 19:13, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] There is MSG for fios

According to the Verizon channel lineup FiOS has MSG, MSG2, FSNY, FSNY2. I don't know the story behind this but it should be taken off or something. DanB91 04:32, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't see any of those abbreviations in the article, so I assume this was removed. 71.103.114.42 19:29, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Port 80

This is somewhat ambiguous. I presume this refers to incoming TCP port 80? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.11.149.5 (talk • contribs)

There is no mention of port 80 in the article. If there were, it would be safe to eliminate ambiguity by adding the word "incoming". 71.103.114.42 19:29, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Logo?

Should there be a logo on this page? I think it would be nice. I found this on Verizon's site but it's not that great: [4] I've never uploaded a file yet, and I don't know if this would be copyrighted. Dj stone 16:08, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

As one random user to another: sounds good to me. 71.103.114.42 19:29, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] technology

developed by Lucent? http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/469092836/m/722007375731?r=391008775731#391008775731 contains link to 2003 Whitepaper from Lucent, and quotes 165MBbytes capacity http://www.bell-labs.com/news/2003/july/FTTP_wpLtr_121703.pdf 71.103.95.241 19:04, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Optical Network Terminal

The older ONTs include ethernet out. Now that Verizon uses MoCA for all new installations, is ethernet still available without the MoCa NIM / Verizon branded wireless router? Can new users still use their own routers and connect via ethernet to the ONT using PPPoE? Will the Verizon cable runner install CAT-5 in addition to coax if you ask them? 71.162.255.53 04:51, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What FiOS means

From a brochure I got from Verizon:

    1) How does one pronounce FiOS?
    It's pronounced f-eye'-oh-s and stands for fiber-optic service.

Apparently the current intro is wrong about the Irish word; I'm going to change it. CronoDAS 04:06, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

A quick google reveals the following: Irish dictionary definition. Irish dictionary #2. It means knowledge. --Toddyboy711 04:38, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
As an Irish user, I can confirm this. The Irish version of the word is pronounced "fiss", like "fizz" but with the s sound from "hiss". Kupos 17:00, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
While the Irish or Gaelic word fios does mean knowledge, or knowledgeable, it is not associated with this company's service. In fact, it is associated with, by trademark, Fios, Inc., an electronic discovery service provider located in Portland, Oregon. The reference is not only incorrect, but in violation of the agreement between the two companies. FiosEDD 00:17, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
The United States Patent and Trademark Office begs to differ. http://www.uspto.gov/ - Registration # 3001081 and 3147510. There is no mention of any relationship with any company in Oregon. However, in both official government trademark filings, Verizon clearly states that "The English translation of FIOS is 'knowledge'." I don't see how anyone can dispute this. To the poster's creding, there are also multiple other filings for companies named "Fios" who offer a wide variety of products and services (including the Oregon company # 76066855). One is not to confuse the aforementioned company, nor a pillow case manufacturer in the UK (# 73437532), with having any relationship with Verizon. I searched the Fios, Inc. of Portland, OR website, and could not find any mention of any relationship with Verizon Communications. I did however find a reference (as if there were any doubt at this point) that further reinforces that fact that "fios" is Gaelic for "knowledge" http://www.fiosinc.com/about/background.asp -- (As a side note, filing # 77035330 defines "fios" as a Portuguese word meaning "cord" in English) Toddyboy711 06:52, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grammar

There's a sentence fragment in the lead paragraph that I can't fix, as I don't know what it should say. Can someone correct this paragraph, please? "According to Verizon's Trademark (No. 3001081). In mailings to New Jersey customers, however, Verizon states that it stands for "fiber-optic service."" --CPAScott 19:25, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] FiOS installers causing fires

FiOS installers almost set fire to an AP reporter's house. Apparently this is not the first time this has happened. This needs to be mentioned. Noclip 23:10, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Verizon Communications Logo Horizontal Cropped.PNG

Image:Verizon Communications Logo Horizontal Cropped.PNG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:13, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] IPTV References under Technology Section

The section that starts "One misconception[citation needed] about FIOS's support for IPTV...." is confusing. Was this person talking about the QoS for VOD content vs that for streaming video from the general internet? Verizon give VOD content the second highest QoS (right behind VoIP), however both services do not travel over the internet, rather within Verizon's own routers. Perhaps this is what they meant, however poorly stated. As such, I have cleaned up the verbiage.

The second error states that PPV content is delivered over IP. This is completely false. The upstream signaling used to purchase PPV uses IP, but the content is delivered over standard broadcast frequencies, starting on channel 701. I have removed this and cleaned up the surrounding content.

The third error states "The optical signal is then coupled with the two other wavelengths passing data between the OLT and ONT." Only the 1490 is really combined at this point, since 1310 is being returned upstream from the ONT. So it is more accurate to say that 1310 is being split from this point, and not combined. This all takes place via the use of a WDM, so I have modified this as well. Toddyboy711 02:12, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ports

The line concerning the blocked ports for Residential service does not make sense, given the ports involved. A clarification is needed on this line, otherwise it will be dropped. A citation would help too. Brokenwit 03:44, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

The official TOS does not specify exact ports being blocked, however sufficient anecdotal evidence from various websites does suggest that at a minimum, outgoing port 25 and incoming port 80 are both blocked. The ports info doesn't seem appropriate lumped together with bandwidth info, so I broke it out in a new heading and added a reference to the VOL TOS. I am weary about the business info, someone needs to research this and add appropriate citations. Toddyboy711 16:24, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
I removed the statement "This means that inbound port 80 (HTTP) and inbound port 25 (SMTP) are blocked on dynamic residential and dynamic business accounts" and the associated link to a Broadband Reports FAQ. A third party FAQ is hardly solid evidence which "means" anything. Toddyboy711 (talk) 00:33, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] PEG channels

Something about local public, educational, government PEG channels could be related here with regard to FIOS TV... the zak 17:04, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Public Access Television

Does FIOS TV have any Public Access channels? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.67.35.214 (talk) 03:16, 1 April 2008 (UTC)


[edit] opening paragraph

the fact that "fios" also happens to be an irish word shouldn't be included in the opening paragraph. it's irrelevant. it should be moved to another section or something129.64.143.32 (talk) 22:28, 28 April 2008 (UTC)jonah

[edit] Coverage Area

Verizon currently covers the East Coast of the United States. AT&T covers the midwest and there is no service overlap for competing services. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.47.186.246 (talk) 03:37, 11 May 2008 (UTC)