Talk:Venom (band)

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Contents

[edit] RV. war

I'm getting tired of this. In a 'battle' a while ago speed/black had been declared wehat would stay, and now one person disagrees and finds it necessary to change? I have kept thrash for the time being, but MANY thrash metal fans (including myself) would never call this thrash. If you insist on keeping it, do not revert other edits. Calling 'speed metal' vandalistic is plain stupid. Please, have a VALID point for its removal if you wish to do so. While you're at it, please check the METAL ARCHIVES' page for Venom if you want my 'source' for Speed Metal. Do not continue a pointless revert war. --Ryouga 23:36, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Its been removed as part of the WP:HMM's clean up strategy, and per the Speed Metal article. We also dont use MA as a source here, due to constant, and blatant, misinformation in their own articles. Ley Shade 01:37, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Point accepted - Venom still remains on the speed metal band list, because they still fall in that category. This shouldn't be a problem though. --Ryouga 23:40, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Speed metal re-add: As per incorrect Speed Metal article, point disproven.

[edit] Unappropriate comment

Pardon by use exactly this word, but who gives a damn about what a unknown critic named Ed Rivadavia (not cited by Wikipedia pages) says on the Venom music? I'm not a fan of this band, but I think the comment is unrelevant and add no valious information on this band article. So about consider deleting it for good? I support the idea.

[edit] Comment

"They weren't a "serious" band"?...?!?!?

-- By that I think its meant that they didnt take the whole satan Schtick seriously. It was a stage act, as compared to the laterday Norwegians who appear to believe there own propaganda.


okay, i might want to place more of an emphasis on how they're actually more thrash/proto-black metal than REALLY black metal. Also, I just need to continue with the biography and stuff, and work on a member list. --Eel 06:22, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't think they fake what they fell, I think your vision on the band is wrong. There are numerous way a person express beliefs in satanism and so on, none of them must be despised. (unindentified user) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.84.193.2 (talk) 05:01, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] influences

okay, venom influenced a LOT of bands, so it might be a bit of a crazy idea to list them all on here. --Eel 03:56, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV for "Mantas"

Isn't this page very biased? Take a look at whenever Mantas is mentioned

haha, wow, yeah, it is, especially since (NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE, i'm in love with venom), mantas wasn't really the greatest guitarist around. i'll fix it some time when i'm not asleep. --Eel 03:37, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Speed

Venom IS SPEED/BLACK. please stop changing it. check the metal-archives for more info.

This has generally been agreed on. It was just 'black metal' once, which is definitely wrong. Obviously someone disgrees - Venom had raw producution and harsh vocals yes, but instrumentalls mantas played a style similar to Priest's speed metal sound. that stuff about crust punk / nwobhm can stay in the albums since many do believe that - if you wish to add thrash there that's fine since that genre is probably already on most of those album pages. --Ryouga 22:10, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Not to raise this revising battle once more, but couldn't it just be Blackened Speed (or Thrash) and NWOBHM? Because we have Black Metal, Speed Metal, Blackened Thrash, and NWOBHM. It would be simpler to just put that...unless we're being specific here then go right ahead. Good work on the article also. Swiftdullah 18:04, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Henry Rollins is stupid

Yeah well look where you are now henry rollins, youre just talking on records and you think youre really intelligent. what a fucking loser.

that part should be removed, because anyone intelligent recognizes venom as important. the henry rollins thing is jut an anecdote really


well, don't get me wrong, venom was very important, and i like them as much as the next guy, but i think it's probably good to have something that mentions that they really weren't all too great at their instruments. i mean, they even admitted it in interviews. --Eel 19:32, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Black flag over Venom anyday

^ Not really, the only song Black Flag had that was worth mentioning was TV Party. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.51.41.72 (talk) 19:47, 28 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] MMV

Does anybody want to put the MMV Boxset with complete track listings up?!

Henry Rollins always seems to have opinions about other bands, usually negative. The musicianship of Black Flag was by no means greater than that of Venom. Rollins used to make fun of rap bands then did a recording with Chuck D. Black Flag was influential, but the Rollins Band was not. In fact they weren't very good. People used to say that Motorhead was "awful". Now Motorhead are considered to be highly influential. A whole generation of thrash bands were influenced by Black Sabbath, Motorhead and Venom. Venom were influential, and an important band in metal history.

[edit] We need to remove some genres.

Let's put them as Blackened Thrash Metal, Speed Metal, and NWOBHM. It describes their sound perfectly, and they're not "true" black metal anyway, because even though they innovated in creating the genre, they still don't fit the bill.

For fair comparison, Metal Archives lists them as NWOBHM, Black/Thrash Metal. Black/Thrash is usually used to indicate Blackened Thrash.

I think it's fair to label them black metal. They coined the term and labeled themselves as black metal before most of the modern ones came about (I mean, it'd be like making a new political ideology called "fascism" which deviates from Mussolini's ideas and disregards them as facsism). Furthermore, Euronymous of Mayhem (who arguably kickstarted modern black metal) acknowledged Venom as black metal too. - Dark Prime

Creation Destruction 06:02, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the top comment. However, Venom call themselves black metal too...of course, this doesn't make them black metal, I think it should just be NWOBHM, Speed Metal, Thrash as their styles with mention to them contributing to the roots of black metal...which the article does. Anyway, the contributing to Death Metal and Thrash is odd too. Couldn't that just be mentioned in the article? Swiftdullah 17:31, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

    • Venom may not be what's recognised as conventional black metal, but partially because of the reasons I listed earlier, they are black metal. - Dark Prime

Their genre is not Black Metal.Remove it.The only reason people label them as black metal is because of their album "Black Metal" and because they gave the name for the genre. Yeah they influenced many black metal bands but listen to some bands from the first wave such as Bathory and you'll find many differences. Also - they sound just like a thrash band or a speed band.I agree with Swiftdullah - "it should just be NWOBHM, Speed Metal, Thrash as their styles with mention to them contributing to the roots of black metal...which the article does" If someone want to keep the black metal tag - please add a source.Thank you. Xr 1 08:47, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

"The only reason people label them as black metal is because of their album "Black Metal" and because they gave the name for the genre." Excuse me, but do you hear yourself here? "Only reason!?!?!?!?" What more reason do you need? I mean, do you consider that some kind of minor reason? Besides that, anybody that wants to just label them Thrash or Speed metal obviously hasn't listened to songs like "Warhead", "Buried Alive" , "1,000 Days in Sodom" or "Leave Me in Hell." Those songs are slow and heavy. I'll be looking for a source. Maybe we could start with the lyrics for "Black Metal?" Jackmantas (talk) 11:12, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


Yes you're right! Many many people think Venom plays black metal. They aren't like Mayhem or Darkthrone. They played heavy metal/speed metal until "Resurrection", and only "Metal Black" contains thrash metal parts like Slayer or Kreator. Blackened thrash metal is inappropriate for them, they don't use black metal screaming vocals like Necrodeath for example --Born Again 83 09:57, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry but Venom invented Black Metal. Anybody who doesn't believe that wasn't there when it happened. Jackmantas (talk) 01:08, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I wasn't there when it happened, but I still agree that they are and were black metal (after all I'm the one who added it back a few times and even added the source it has now). Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 17:25, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Incomplete disography?

I was looking at the discography, and it looked a little incomplete. I remembered an EP which had a song titled "Manitou", but couldn't find reference to it here. I found a "better" discography here [1], but I am not sure this stuff should be merged into this article? Yngvarr 01:25, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ed Rivadavi

I think this page relies a little too heavily on quotes from Allmusic's Ed Rivadavi.C1k3 00:51, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, I'll work on that.Jackmantas (talk) 01:08, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Venom Logo.png

Image:Venom Logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:17, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

I have added the following rationale to the image:

[edit] Fair Use Rationale

This logo is fair use in the article Venom (band) for the following reasons:

  1. This is a low resolution image.
  2. The image is used in an article about the band and is integral to the article.
  3. The use of the image is unlikely to affect the future marketing of the image by the copyright holder.
  4. A free use image is not available.

Hope this helps. Arundhati lejeune 12:13, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Black metal

Where is written here that Venom are black metal? --Born Again 83 (talk) 11:04, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Why have you deleted that source of www.metalcrypt,com without a reason? I can't stand this action and it's not the first time! That reference is explicit, Venom aren't black metal, they were only pioneers. Mayhem started the genre. I need an answer if you can, please! --Born Again 83 (talk) 19:44, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Mayhem did not start the genre, listen to old Bathory (e.g.The Return). Kameejl (Talk) 08:58, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
And Mayhem themselves acknowledged Venom as black metal. You should read Euronymous' interviews. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.14.74.64 (talk) 17:41, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Why do people always ALWAYS take the words of the musicians themselves as some kind of fact? Musicians are mere men just like the rest of us. If The Sex Pistols were to suddenly start saying that Dead Kennedys were an IDM group, this would not make it so. This approach to an argument is extremely weak. If Venom is black metal, then so is Motorhead and early Blind Guardian. Anyway, the while the first band to actually play black metal is debated (some say Bathory, some say Mayhem, and there are probably a few more that don't immediately come to mind), I think we've come to an agreement that Venom isn't black metal. They contributed the name of the genre and some less musical aspects like lyrical themes and poor production, but I think we can safely say that there's much more to black metal music than that. We should take it off the genre list. 24.19.227.39 (talk) 08:30, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Regardless of whether this band can be said to be "black metal", I would ask the editors not to remove reference footnotes without previewing their changes. The folks fighting about this issue have apparently ignored the fact that deleting and improperly restoring the reference element named "metal_ahj" containing the {{cite video}} for Metal: A Headbanger's Journey had caused a big, bold, red error message to appear in the References section. It took me a while to find the original use of this reference to understand what it was supposed to look like before hasty editors starting hacking at it. If you're going to mess with Wikiquote:Footnotes, even if only to delete them, you need to learn how they work and how not to create problems. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 23:08, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Since Venom also referred to themselves as black metal while also having coined it, I feel it's absurd to go along and say they wern't black metal. 90.196.92.177 (talk) 18:50, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] NWOBHM

That's not a genre. Erase it, I can't. -.-

142.162.193.115 (talk) 23:58, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

NWOBHM is a genre. Jackmantas (talk) 01:04, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Satan, hell, etc. infl.

Should'nt we also mention that Venom was one of the first bands to talk about Satan and hell in such a way in their lyrics. I mean, we're talking about Venom. Before them no one talked so predominantly about such evil (or Satanic) things to an even close degree as Venom. Some might think it doesn't matter but I beg to differ. I don't really care what it was that they were talking about in their lyrics, I only mention it because of all the bands that took influence from this. Before Venom = no Satanic or "evil" lyrics (or even music) to speak of really. After Venom = pretty much every single metal band afterward (yes, I know it's an exaggeration, but I'm kaing a point) started doing lyrics predominanlty about evil or "Satanic" things, taking a leaf right out of Venom's book (or one could even say copying them). Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 22:39, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Excellent point and I absolutely agree with you. They were definitely the first band to talk about Satanic things to the level that they took it. I always thought that Venom was kind of a reaction to the Christian fanatics who claimed that there were all these Satanic bands, when up to the time of Venom, they were actually just a myth created by the Christian right. It was almost as if Venom said: Wow, thanks for the great idea for a band." I actually heard about Venom from watching some Christian television program that was trying to slam them and warn everyone of the terrible, evil, Satanic, heavy metal. They flashed a few pics and played excerpts from the songs: "Black Metal" and "Leave Me in Hell" while flashing the lyrics across the screen and I said to myself: "These guys are awesome, I gotta get this album." and I ran out and bought it the next day. The Christian Right just doesn't realize how they promote the very stuff that they are trying to get rid of. So I guess we need to created a section about how they paved the way for so many Satanic bands after them? Sounds good to me. I'll be thinking about a title for the section. I'll also look for some sources.Jackmantas (talk) 01:03, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Lmao, that's true. That's hilarious that that's how you found out about them. Ok, sounds great. I'm sure Ian Christe's book Sound of the Beast (that's used widely on wikipedia for all things metal) has info about it. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 19:06, 23 April 2008 (UTC)