Talk:Veni, vidi, vici/Archive 1

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Mithradites

As far as i was aware, this quote was actually after the battle against son of Mithridates. Ceasar distroyed Mithridates army in just 4 hours. The battle would of not been remembered but after the battle, Ceasar stood at the top of the hill and said "Veni Vidi Vici"

Adam Doyle —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.206.124.184 (talk) 14:23, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

 ;-) Well edited. Thank you.

Sorry if my entry was more work than worth.Please do not cuss on these things it is not nice!!!

No problem, that's what Wikipedia is for! Do you know how else this could be expanded? I'm sure it's used in many more situations, or misused even - I remember a sports reporter using the phrase to describe a basketball game, and he translated it as "they came", etc! Maybe we could add a bit about the grammar of the words, or something. Adam Bishop 08:58, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Someone should delete 2 of this page, Veni Vidi Vici and Vini vidi vici and redirect the deleted ones to the remaining one, which I think should be this one. I would, but dont have the time. say1988 22:46, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

I've taken care of it. They serve best as redirect pages.
EliasAlucard|Talk 03:23, 04 Jun, 2005 (UTC)

Didn't Terry Pratchett parody this phrase in one of his novels? I can't remember which one, but he was talking about all the different Latin phrases he could have used that begin with V. It was very funny.

Terry uses a lot of faux latin. I can't remember the Veni line, but I remember fabricati diem, pvnc! -- "Make my day, punk!" which is, itself, a reference to Dirty Harry, of course...

Variations

More popular, but unattributed variations:

  • Veni Vidi Bibi (I came, I saw, I drank)
  • Vidi Vici Veni Veni Veni!! (work it out...) --Slashme 13:30, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

User:WeniWidiWiki

User:WeniWidiWiki -- Zondor 19:14, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation?

It would be great to include the correct latin pronunciation. Anybody knows? I'm not sure if the vici part is prononced like the letters "VC" (as I think) or "Vitchee"... I'm sure it's not "v-eye-ch-eye"! Thanks!

It was pronounced "wee-kee", while "vee-chee" is a much, much later way to pronounce it. (Or, at least, this is what people guess is the "correct" pronunciation, as in how Julius Caesar himself and other early first-century BC Romans would have pronounced it, at least other members of Caesar's class and not the lower class, because the real answer is probably "who knows"). Adam Bishop 02:51, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
I recall reading that the pronunciation was probably Weeni Weedi Weechi (with lots of hand gestures). For all sorts of reasons JC is the greatest figure in history - but with that coming out of his mouth, not so much.--shtove 23:46, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
I would say Veni Vidi Vinci, and would write it as such, this since I looked up vinci and it was in the Dictionary as "easily gained" and vici wasn't included (See: http://catholic.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookup.pl?stem=vinci&ending=)... 145.94.142.235 03:13, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, you looked up words starting with "vinci-" and came up with "vincibilis" which means "easily gained" (the opposite of the English word "invincible"). "Vinci" itself means "to be conquered", so I don't know why you would write the phrase like that, it would just be wrong if you did. Adam Bishop 03:20, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, oke :-) My Latin is at a level that I can interpret some of it, but not much. Some people say the phrase and if what you say is true, than it is even funny when they mispronounce... 145.94.142.235 03:27, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
In 'VERY archaic Latin it would have been rufly wey-nee wee-dee wee-ghee or /we.ni wi.di wi.gi/. Cæsar himself probably said it similar except the 'c' would have been pronounced like a 'k' instead of a hard 'g'. Modern pronunciation is rufly ven-ee vee-dee vee-chee.Cameron Nedland 18:54, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Probably more like 'oo-ey-ni, oo-ee-dee, oo-ee-kee'. The Latin 'v' was often pronounced as a full vowel, rather than a semi-consonant, especially in formal speech. Ninebucks 16:15, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Which one is correct?

I have seen other versions like "veni, vedi, veci" and "vini, vidi, vici." Which one is correct? Are they all identical in Latin or are they all acceptable?

The title of this article is the correct spelling. "Vini" means "of the wine" but "vedi" and "veci" are not words. Adam Bishop 17:54, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Origin more important?

Apart from the Category, there is not a single reference to Julius Ceasar making this quote. Isn't that where it got its fame from? :s — Deon555talkdesksign here! 07:13, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Did you read the opening paragraph? Adam Bishop 13:40, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
I stand corrected. — Deon555talkdesksign here! 07:07, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Spanish wiki

I don't have an account on the Spanish wikipedia, and I don't know enough Spanish to say anything there, but recently their article has been moved to use the spelling "vinci", apparently under the assumption that that is the correct past particple of "vincere". Can anyone go there and fix it? Adam Bishop 07:26, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps that is how the phrase is most frequently phrased in the Spanish-speaking world? Ninebucks 16:18, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Why would they phrase it like that? Adam Bishop 17:41, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi you all, I'm a member of the Spanish wikipedia and I can tell now that the article has changed to "veni, vidi, vici". Although, I've always wonder why in many sources appears "vici" as "vinci" including the book by Suetonius "The lives of the twelve Caesars", translation to spanish by Jaime Arnal (ISBN 84-7291-770-3), and I've seen the link to the english translation of this article but unfortunately the phrase per se does not appear. Maybe it is sometimes phrased as "vinci" because of the spanish word "vencer" wich means "to defeat", however I couldn´t find "vincere" in a latin dictionary, I found "vinco" wich means "to defeat, to win, winner" I would love to see the original "De duodecim Caesarum" and see how it appears. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.19.152.235 (talk) 23:23, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

"Vinco" is the first-person present indicative of "vincere", which is how verbs are listed in a Latin dictionary. The perfect is "vici", never "vinci", so I don't know why this is the case in Spain. Suetonius says "Pontico triumpho inter pompae fercula trium verborum praetulit titulum VENI·VIDI·VICI non acta belli significantem sicut ceteris, sed celeriter confecti notam." online here Adam Bishop (talk) 01:24, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much. 190.19.152.235 (talk) 03:04, 27 March 2008 (UTC)Mr. Star Minuta190.19.152.235 (talk) 03:04, 27 March 2008 (UTC) (forgot to sign before)

Pop culture section

The pop culture section here was a monster, so I edited a few notable items into a semblance of prose, and moved the original list to a separate page where its deletion can be discussed properly. --Slashme 06:24, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Regarding popular culture references AFD

I recommend that the pop culture reference list be severely pruned and a few items moved back to this article. When the phrase is used, as is, within the body of the text of a book, film, song, etc. then remove it from the list.

  • What should be kept
    • Mottos - just start a section called Mottos and a straight list of organizations using it as a motto should be listed.
    • Historical uses - the two entries in the current political heading should be kept.
  • Disambiguate - If this phrase is the title of a work (book, film, song, or other art) put it on a disambiguation page.
  • Alterations - This could be where all the ways the phrase has been altered is listed.

I like trivia and pop culture a bit, but some of those items are just a bit much for me. I only found this through an invite to the WikiProject Trivia and Popular Culture. - LA @ 02:33, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

The reason I split off the section as a separate article to be discussed for deletion is that I don't think lists of modern uses of the phrase are in any way appropriate to this article. I would therefore not support adding lists of organisations using it as a motto or lists of alterations of the phrase to this article. Just my opinion, though. --Slashme 05:08, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
It works fine as a stand-alone article. If you moved it back into this article, you'd have to severely prune it so as to keep it in balance with the non-pop content, but such a reduction wouldn't result in an improvement to the encyclopedia.
The ultimate value of "in popular culture" lists is to illustrate the cultural prominence of a subject. If not for that very prominence, the phrase itself would be non-notable. Pop-culture lists may seem like they were compiled by someone with OCD sometimes, but they give one a broader sense of the subject's significance.--Father Goose 07:55, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
IMHO, the discussion of the cultural uses of the term in the main article is enough to establish its notability, and an attempt at an exhaustive list is inappropriate to Wikipedia. But that's my opinion, which is just one atom of the molecule of consensus that we are attempting to build. --Slashme 15:00, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Concerned about the IPC section

I am confused; what criteria is being used to justify the inclusion or exclusion of a particular cultural reference of this term? Please let me know so I can be certain that these references are not just being removed as an arbitrary matter of personal distaste. Cheers, --NickPenguin(contribs) 16:27, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

When a new example is added to the list, I ask myself "Will someone who didn't get that people are still using the sentence all the time, now understand the point?" Take for example the recent addition of the Hives and the Black Lips. Seeing as we already had Ja Rule and Alizee representing popular music, I couldn't see how this would help anybody's comprehension of the topic. All it does is to push the section back in the direction of a long pointless list. We've been there and the consensus is clear that it's a Bad Thing™. --Slashme (talk) 05:54, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
This consensus you claim is clear does not exist.--Father Goose (talk) 07:37, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
I must be misunderstanding you. Are you trying to say that there is serious support for turning the section back into a long, pointless list? --Slashme (talk) 15:06, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
From my perspective, it looks like the only person who has been policing this list has been you; you were the one who forked the IPC section and then immediately put it as an AfD last month, and now, you are the only one who has been removing new content being added to the IPC section. To me, this looks like a consensus of 1. --NickPenguin(contribs) 15:30, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
Well then count me in, because these IPC lists are ridiculous and greatly decrease the quality of articles. I don't necessarily agree with what remains (Ja Rule over the Hives?) but it's better than before. Adam Bishop (talk) 15:32, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
Then it sounds like we need to have a clear discussion about what determines a valid inclusion and what does not, because right now the list is completely arbitrary, and these arbitrary decisions are being reinforced by unexplained removal. --NickPenguin(contribs) 15:49, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

pronounciation ??

Who is that moron who pronounced this phrase in English? Vici is NOT pronounced viKi, except if the person saying it has a lisp or an impairment in his/her mouth (or brain). Please remove the viKi pronunciation, as a Latin phrase SOULD NEVER be pronounced in any other language! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.165.180.2 (talk) 08:31, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

The hard "c" is used in the Classical Latin pronunciation. At least, that's how I was taught. --FF 08:38, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, what's the problem? Adam Bishop (talk) 09:09, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
it should not be a hard c, but a soft one like the "CH" in "CHerry". Adam, the problem is correct pronounciation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.165.180.2 (talk) 10:25, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
C is pronounced as K in Classical Latin. See Latin spelling and pronunciation. This is not contested. Iblardi (talk) 18:06, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Right. The "ch" sound is a medieval/church Latin pronunciation. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:04, 24 April 2008 (UTC)