Talk:Veliky Novgorod

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Contents 1 Holmgard=island garden? 2 Slavic City? 3 Massacre ? 4 Misuse of term viking 5 Dear children has many names

[edit] Holmgard=island garden?

It is stated that the norse Holmgard should be translated to island garden in English. However, gard has a much wider meaning than just garden, eg. farm and area. Also holm has more meanings. Besides being an island, a holm can be a small plateau. See Danish Holm (ø). Hence Holmgard and Holmgrad can have more or less the same meaning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mortengrud (talk • contribs) 12:56, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Slavic City?

Interestingly enough, the article fails even to mention the fact that the Nestor Chronicle (or whatever the name is in English) mentions two Slavonic and three "Finnish" tribes (Finnic speaking) as the founders of Novgorod, instead the city is represented as "purely Slavic". Is there a good reason for that? Should I write something about it?

With sources. --ajvol 09:15, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Something like this [1]? "According to the Primary Chronicle, the earliest chronicle of Kievan Rus′, a Varangian (Viking) named Rurik first established himself in Novgorod, located in modern Russia (he was selected as common ruler by several Slavic and Finno-Ugric tribes) in about 860 before moving south and extending his authority to Kiev. The chronicle cites him as the progenitor of the Rurik Dynasty. The Primary Chronicle says: Upon year 6367 (859): Varangians from over the sea had tribute from Chuds, Slavs, Merias, Veses, Krivichs...." By the way, "Viking" is a bit misleading because we are not talking about the kind of pirates the Vikings primarily were.

[edit] Massacre ?

Why isn't there more mention of the massacre made by Tsar upon the population ? It completely ruined the city. --Molobo 23:11, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Misuse of term viking

Four Viking kings — Olav I of Norway, Olav II of Norway, Magnus I of Norway, and Harald Haardraade is wrong at least harald was one of the vikings most importnt enemies. Read the saga as about Harald. He attacked them again and again, and finally drove them to Iceland. The other three are also doubtful, he word viking is used in its old national romacy style from 1800, but is not relevent.

Harald I was one of the most mentioned enemies of vikings that history knows.

Dan Koehl 11:56, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dear children has many names

Rurik, the founder of Novgorod Principality is also mentioned by names Ruri, Rurikka and Hraerekr. Non of Slavonic origin. Novgorod was also called Kalmogor (Vatja name), Holmgord (Scandinavian name), Uuslinn (Estonian name), Uuslinna (Finnish name). Listed by Arabian Ibn Dustah from Bagdad Kalifate who visited there c. 880-890. Non of Slavonic origin.

Oleg is also mentioned by names Olav (Olaf), and Olavi. Both names non of Slavonic origin.

The first attackers from Holmgord toward south to Kvenugard (Kiev) in 865 were Askold and Dir. Also Askola and Tiera (Finnish) and Höskuldr and Dyri (ancient Scandinavian). Non of Slavonic origin.

Merja and Ves (Veps / Vepsä) are names of Finnic origin, not Slav, tribes.

Isborsk is derived Russian name from Issa (Big) Veps name. Setu tribe had also their own name to Isborsk, ancient Ispora. (Isopuro in Finnish).

JN