Talk:Vecna

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is part of WikiProject Dungeons & Dragons, which collaborates on Dungeons & Dragons-related articles. To participate, help improve this article or visit the project page for details on the project.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-class on the quality scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as mid-importance on the importance scale.

This article is part of The World of Greyhawk Wikiproject, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to the World of Greyhawk campaign setting for the Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying game on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this notice, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

Contents 1 The Head of Vecna 2 Copyvio 3 Merging 4 Vecna Technologies 5 New? 6 Third-Party Sources

[edit] The Head of Vecna

Should this be in here? A funny story but never the less hardly worthy of Wikipedia. User:Gil-Galad

It's a pretty famous gamer legend, the owner of a large gaming store in my town even called it one of the oldest stories around. It's even been printed in Knights of the Dinner Table and Pyramid Magazine. Gamers like to spread "they really were that stupid" stories, such as this and the Gazebo story. --Paul Soth 07:59, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

And, it does make an appearance in an actual game module, so it does have more... substance (?) than other "Stupid Gamer Stories." Dr Archeville 12:19, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

It's also referenced in passing in Planescape: Torment, for what it's worth. --Aquillion 05:32, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

It's maybe not as noteable (by Wikipedia standards) as the story of Eric and the Gazebo, but it's still worth having in. I'll add the history of RPG template to the Vecna article. JustIgnoreMe 23:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I noticed that the link to the story as provided is down. Archive has the site at http://web.archive.org/web/20060722094412/users.tkk.fi/~vesanto/link.fun/stupid.pcs.html 75.73.214.10 20:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copyvio

The biographical description of Vecna has sections taken word-for-word from a copyrighted source, the first Ravenloft "Domains of Dread" book. For example:

"Vecna is one of the most infamous and feared creatures in existence. Born centuries ago on Oerth (the world of the Greyhawk campaign setting), he was a student of the darkest arts and practitioner of the most vile forms of magic. In time, he became master of a great empire based on fear and horror."

and most of these (there are slight variations, outlined between asterisks)

"Vecna’s penchant for brutality and obsession for world domination was said to have been limitless. Legends claim that he actually bred whole villages of people just to supply bodies for his experiments. Other stories say that his power stripped whole sections of Oerth of all life, creating regions like the Bright Desert *(by unleashing a magical burning force in -1566 CY)*. Whether or not these tales are true, it cannot be doubted that Vecna’s dark and sinister armies spread death and destruction across whole continents."

"When Vecna grew old, he used his magical powers to ward off the final coming of death. In time, however, even his greatest talents were unable to stay the hand of finality. Exactly what process he used is unknown, but somehow the darkest of mortals transformed himself into the deadliest of liches *forty years after assuming domination of the Ur-Flannae peoples (-1671 CY)*.

"As Vecna continued to amass power and spread evil (such as in the Four Hundred Year War waged against the elves, from -1547 CY to -1157 CY), a powerful warrior named Kas rose to become his chief lieutenant. Known as Kas the Bloody-Handed, he pronounced Vecna’s judgments and exercised power second only to the lich himself. To reward his lieutenant of this devotion and service, Vecna gave him a powerful sword in -1156 CY (Vecna had actually forged this sword in -1655 CY, almost 500 years prior, and had used it himself to slay the Elven High King at the end of the Four Hundred Year War). With the Sword of Kas in hand, none could stand against *the evil warrior*."

"For a time, the darkness that shrouded Oerth grew even more terrible under the might of these two sinister beings. In time, however, Kas was tempted by the power of his Sword, and he turned on his master. After (a) great battle *in -1151 CY* decimated the dark tower of Vecna, both combatants were destroyed. All that remained were the Sword of Kas and the Eye and Hand of Vecna."

"As a creature of absolute darkness, Vecna became revered by those who would do evil. Over time, the worship and prayers of these people empowered the lingering remains of his spirit, and Vecna became a demigod. Even demigodhood, however, was not enough to satisfy the cravings of the Whispered One. Working through his avatars (material extensions/duplicates of a deity), Vecna sought to regain his empire and, using the power that would thus be his, elevate himself to the status of a greater god by wresting control of Oerth away from the other gods. Had he succeeded, all of Oerth would have been his to command, though it is doubtful that even this would have mollified the Maimed Lord."

"Fortunately, Vecna’s bid to assume absolute power over Oerth failed. Further, his plans included a fatal flaw, resulting in his imprisonment in dreaded Ravenloft. The Mists, through the link forged between Vecna’s avatar and Vecna himself, claimed his fortress Citadel Cavitus from the Quasielemental Plane of Ash (a plane formed on the edges of the Elemental Plane of Fire and the Negative Energy Plane). In *581 CY*, Vecna was imprisoned in Ravenloft. *(One year later, the Greyhawk Wars raged, from 582-584 CY)*."

"Vecna was wild with fury at his imprisonment, not only because he failed to understand why he could not simply break free of the accursed demiplane, but also because beyond Citadel Cavitus, beyond the Ashen Wastes and across the Burning Peaks lay the domain of Tovag, ruled by none other than the traitor Kas. When Vecna and Kas fought, Kas was not destroyed, but rather flung into the prison in Vecna's otherdimensional Citadel Cavitus. Centuries of exposure to the negative energies of the Citadel had taken their toll on Kas’s body, and he had become a vampire, his love of conquest and triumph twisted into a hunger for destruction and chaos. For one who desired only the accumulation of power and the acquisition of knowledge, Vecna’s impotence and confusion was as terrible fate as one could wish upon the Chained God."

--Piotr User:192.136.22.4

Piotr- I have reverted to the last pre-copyvio version of the article and alerted User:Dr Archeville, who added the allegedly copyvio material. -Parallel or Together? 05:53, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Sorry 'bout that. Dr Archeville 12:19, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merging

I am against merging the Hand & Eye of Vecna articles in with the main Vecna article, as each has significant background & development to stand on its own. If Vecna had remained simply little more than a name & a few artifacts as he was in 1st edition, I would support the merge, but having each as a separate article is the best method given Vecna's current status.--Robbstrd 18:12, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree, and for the same reasons. BOZ

Since there appears to be no more discussion, does anyone mind if I remove the merge tag?--Robbstrd 01:15, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I have no objection. It's been two weeks since the merger was suggested, and nobody has come forward to support the merge. If anyone has a *major* objection, they can always re-suggest the merge and participate in the ensuing discussion (i.e. as different from this time with no participation). Fairsing 01:49, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

For what its worth, the Vecna artifacts seem to resemble a plot in one of Michael Moorcock's books where the hero lost his eye, and hand, but was given new ones. The eye was able to see beyond reality and the hand was able to summon dead spirits. I forget which book it was from.

That would be the Corum books. JustIgnoreMe 23:22, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vecna Technologies

Not sure if this is worth mentioning here, but there is a company called Vecna Technologies (they're developing robotic bears to help rescue wounded troopers). --Dr Archeville 14:10, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New?

What's the newest material on Vecna? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phredde1962 (talk • contribs) 03:27, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I think there's something in MMV--the "godblooded" template, iirc.--Robbstrd 19:49, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Third-Party Sources

Vecna has been referred to in multiple reliable third-party sources, some of which have already been placed in this article (see "Vecna in Other Media" and "References"). If this is not sufficient to demonstrate the existence of reliable third-party sources, could someone please define the characteristics of these sources and why the ones already included with the article are not sufficient?InVinoVeritas (talk) 19:27, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

The source tag has been restored, with the comment that "Vecna in Other Media" is little more than a trivia section. Could you please elucidate? After having read WP:N I do not see how the uses in other media fail to qualify as multiple reliable third-party sources. What third party sources would you need to see to be satisfied? I'd like to see if we can reach a consensus on this topic.InVinoVeritas (talk) 14:36, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

The restorer of the source tag has been shown to be a sockpuppet and deleted as an editor acting in bad faith. Since there have been no other editors discussing their reasons for restoring the template, I am removing it now. If any other editor doubts the existence of third party sources, please feel free to discuss them here. Thanks! InVinoVeritas (talk) 22:14, 6 April 2008 (UTC)