Talk:Vasyl Stus
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[edit] terminology
Andriy, penal colony is not the same as concentration camp. Even under Stalin's rule, these Soviet institutions were called labour camps. Now you should prove that there were concentration camps in the USSR in 1985. Good luck, Ghirla -трёп- 16:54, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] poem
This is how Vasyl Stus called those places:
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Пам"ятi М. К. Зерова. Колеса глухо стукотять, |
(bolding is my)--AndriyK 17:06, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] terminology continued
Andriy, what Stus said about Soviet system in his emotional poem is notable of course, but Wikipedia should use the most applicable terminology not just to try to find the strongest possible words for even really bad things. Bad things should still be called properly. Not every murder is a massacre, not every authoritarian state can be called totalitarian and so on. Concentration camp (take a look at its article) in Soviet mid-80s is simply an incorrect terminology. Please put your emotions aside when writing articles. --Irpen 18:37, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
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- Did you read the article yourself? Do you find there any hint on the distinction between a Concentration camp and Labor Camp?
- Could you cite any sources stating explicitely that "Concentration camp in Soviet mid-80s (in fact, also 60-s and 70-s are relevant) is simply an incorrect terminology"?--AndriyK 19:12, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
- Please chill out
- Please find the proof youself that Soviet penal colonies in mid-80s were widely called concentration camps in scholarly literature (not in political speeches). I don't think so. Penal colony is a neutral term that calls the place what it is. Concentration camp is a specific type of detention place. It is not up to you to decide whether it is applicable to Perm colony. You have to prove that respected sources consider it as such. I cleaned up and categorized the article which IMO allows to remove Ghirla's tags. I hope he agrees. You just try to pick a fight over the term that is probably inapropriate. No one denies that he was a political prisoner by calling that the detention place by a proper term. --Irpen 19:19, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
- It's your job to provide referencies if you claim anything. If you claim that Vasyl Stus used wrong terminology in his poems, than provide referencies confirming your assertions.
- All your unsourced claims will be ignored.--AndriyK 09:58, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
AndriyK, Stus was not a scholar whose work should be transferred to the Encyclopedia as far as terminology is conserned. He was a good poet and he is notable for his poetry, not for his works in Sovietology. Penal colony is an obvious name. Evryting else require a proper scholarly ref. Poetry isn't one. If unconvinced, feel free to raise this at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Society and law or Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Politics or at WP:3O. I think you will here the same responses. --Irpen 16:25, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
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- Why "Penal colony is an obvious name"? Can you provide a reference?--AndriyK 08:59, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Please stop pestering.[1], [2]. Don't you know how to use a dictionary? --Irpen 20:23, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
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- It's named as "labour camp" on the canadian site dedicated to the poet. -- Anonymous
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- I am second for the "labor camp" it is known to the Western reader (unlike "penal colony") and is quite close to the accurate meaning (unlike "concentration camp"). We often use inexact translations of Soviet terms (GULAG even if it was GUIN or something at the time; Political Comissar event if it was "Memebr of the Military Council", NKVD even if it was MGB, etc. etc.). If we use the "Penal Colony" we need to have an article explaining what it is, and the "Concentration Camp" is simply incorrect abakharev 09:04, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
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- Guys! There is no strong reason to argue. "Labor camp" is one of types of "Concentration camps". (There were also "Death camps", "Children camps", but only in Nazi Germany and in the occupied countries). There were only labor camps in the USSR, although many pople died there.--Mbuk 16:57, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
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I am fine with labor camp. --Irpen 08:11, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Vasyl Stus Nobel nomenation
I recall reading somewhere that Vasyl Stus was considered for nomenation for the Nobel prize, and that he died in the labour camp before the nomination. Does anybody remember something about this, or am I just incorrect and mistook him for someone else? —dima/// 19:31, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
