Talk:Vasiliy Ulrikh

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I put the POV template on this article because the bias here is extreme beyond all that I can endure. It has hardly any value as historical information at all. We would be better off with a NPOV one-paragraph stub. Everyking 09:50, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

What exactly are your objections? I see a number of sentences in a rather frivolous style, but I don't see major POV here. "Personal charcteristics" section is indeed POVish, but it is clear it is not a mug shot, but personal recollections, listed in "References". mikka (t)

The whole thing is POV demonization. Everyking 05:52, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, that's how he was remembered by people. If you have something good to say about him, by all means. I will try to find out whether he did something useful for the Soviet Union besides quick prosecutions of the enemies of the people. mikka (t) 17:02, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with mikkalai -- people probably tended not to like him a lot, especialy the ones that he executed ... and it says that Stalin liked his style, so here is a NPOV :). No seriously, I think that the tag is excessive, and it should be removed; at the most, there should be that disclaimer before Personal characteristics. For comparison, see the article about his Nazi counterpart, Roland Freisler -- it has no tag. Eugen Ivan 02:56, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I have been around WP for a good while, and I have seen a lot of POV crap, and a lot of POV crap about the Soviet Union specifically, but this is honestly one of the worst cases I have ever seen. If this doesn't need the tag, then no articles need the tag. Everyking 05:12, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Hardly a POV, rather a typical characterization a-la Solzhenitsyn. All it needs is to more clearly reference specific claims (e.g., "Solzhenitsyn wrote that "......" etc.) Descriptions of debauchery have a perfectly acceptable place in historical accounts. Come on -- would you not consider "Life of 12 Caesars" NOT to be a perfectly fine source? Isn't it quoted in thousands of WP pages? Andy yet, it is mostly about immoral and criminal behaviours. User Everyking appears to have an "antidemonization" agenda -- well, find something (anything!) good about Ulrich and add it to the article.

[edit] Rewrite

I have rewritten the top of the article and added some paragraphs to the bottom to summarize Ulrikh's legacy. I hope that this work will be acceptable to the Wikipedia community.

I am not sure if anything could be found about Ulrikh to "balance" his work as a judge. It appears to me to be a better route to take to simply point out that Ulrikh's work was done within the Soviet legal system, that what was expected of him as a judge was different than what might be expected from a judge somewhere else, and that he was part of Stalin's regime, or maybe we could say Stalin's administration.

Even within this different legal tradition, Ulrikh has been subjected to fierce and, I think, fair criticism for his life and work. Bigturtle 00:31, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite: update

As it has been 3 weeks since my update with no further comments received, I have removed the POV tag. Bigturtle 22:52, 9 June 2006 (UTC)