Talk:Vanessa L. Williams

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Contents

[edit] Gay Icon Project

In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 22:20, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

What makes you think she's a lesbian? WiccaWeb 03:31, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
One doesn't have to be a lesbian to be a Gay icon. See the article for a definition. Jamesisahimbo (talk) 21:24, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] African American?

I'm afraid this is going to spark a lot of controversy, and I was reluctant to write anything, but I couldn't help myself: can she be properly described as "African American", as she's currently described throughout the article? According to the text, her ancestry is 5/8 "African American" and 3/8 "Caucasian". I think most people (especially in the USA) wouldn't call someone who is (as an example) 5/8 white and 3/8 black "white", so why the opposite? That's without even getting into the issue of her appearance, i.e., whether she actually "looks" "African American" or not.

Of course, to me much of the problem comes from the definition of just what "African American" means (yes, I've read that article and corresponding talk page, and I don't think they answer this question well).

Maybe the people who wrote the article subscribe to the theory of hypodescent...

Well first of all, "African American" in this case and in the rest of Wiki is being used more as an ethnic term, not a racial one, similar to Italian American, Irish American, etc. that we categorize other entertainers as. But in the case of many US blacks, it's not as easy to categorize by individual national origin for unfortunate reasons, which is why it's done by continent (Africa), while Europeans and Asians usually do it by nation (Chinese, Dutch, French, etc). Secondly, the info about her race breakdown should be deleted anyway since its unsourced. Crumbsucker 15:19, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your input. I do understand that rationale behind the name "African American". What I don't understand is why it should be applied to people who have only partial black ancestry. And, in her case, even if she's not really 5/8+3/8 as the article says, it seems clear to me, from her appearance, that she's not simply "black". --Cotoco 15:45, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

As a side note to the above discussion: No Black American, no american for that matter, who can trace their familial history in this country back more than five generations is composed of solely one ethnic group. The exceptions are so rare as to be unmentionable. As for her apperance, there is no standard which identifies one as black. We come in the darkest ebon to the lightest ivory and everything in between. In the US, long and still have we utilized the one drop rule (one black ancestor identifies a person as black). In any case, I do believe, one's own personal definition of self should be paramount. And, Ms. Williams has always identified herself as a Black Woman.208.242.54.41 22:45, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

There's no such thing as Black ancestory, unless it pertains to social, cultural and racial identity. There is no Black gene. I doubt highly that her sub-Saharan and/or Arabic (and descendents other possible ethnic groups) identified as black people. The concept has evolved rather recently in history; as result of the Slave Trade and Africans in the Wester/New World. Even the African continent experienced a considerable amount of ethnic mixing prior to the beginning of the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade. A Black woman, she is most definately, and is implied of her recent ancestors.
Ancestry By DNA.com is a very informative website. This company was involved in the BBC's 2003 Motherland - A Genetic Journeyproject. It speaks of the fact that since the dawn of man, people have been constantly on the move, evolving, mutating and mixing with one another (in an ethnic/racial sense). They also cover that there are two aspects of race and the concept of race is significanly more complex than it is generally understood and applied by most people. I believe that there are no individuals living today, none, that are not a product of racial or ethnic fusion occuring in the recent or distant past. 68.221.92.102 19:42, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
ANYONE with known African ancestry who self identifies as African American is African American, regardless of the proportion of "pure" (whatever THAT means) African ancestry: That is why African Americans literally come in all colors, with wide variations in phenotypes. Its more a cultural designation that biological one (for that matter, so is "race"). Kemet

The first time I saw vanessa was her music video,I thought she was white at first.I was suprised that after watching that movie where she was a dancer competing,my mom said she was Black,but I said she looks quite white.But after doing my research on race,ehtnic group across the world,african american ancestry,I realised,that Vanessa is Black but for sure she defenetly has European ancestry as well.Judging by her looks.Many African Americans have "Original" American and European ancestry.So save to say Vanessa is an American of African and European ancestry! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.94.60.111 (talk) 19:19, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

Vanessa Lynn Williams → Vanessa L. Williams – For film credits, she is typically credited with an initial, not full middle name. Crumbsucker 04:37, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
  • Provisional support. She is not known as Vanessa Lynn Williams, and is known as Vanessa L. Williams, so it's better. --Dhartung | Talk 06:05, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose rename to Vanessa Williams as primary and move DAB page to Vanessa Williams (disambiguation). 132.205.44.134 01:03, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
    • As I said before, I don't know if the gap of notablity is enough for her to get the page name over the Soul Food series actress. Including the L. would be a easy compromise for disambiguation purposes (which she does herself as her page explains). She uses the L. in her stage name anyway, so it wouldn't be inaccurate to name the page that. Crumbsucker 17:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments

I actually think that she should be at Vanessa Williams, as neither of her name-mates is nearly as well-known. I keep seeing more and more First Last name pages used as disambiguation "portals" and I think that's generally bad form. (On the other hand, we have three living users of the name.) If Vanessa Williams is supported by other editors, I will change my vote. --Dhartung | Talk 06:05, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

The way it's set up now is flawed, but works IMO. I don't think the two bigger Vanessas (L. and A.) have that big of a gap in terms of notability to give L. the main page. Crumbsucker 11:27, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
Van-A is an actress, Van-L is an actress, hit singer, model, Miss America, first black Miss America, a Miss America stripped of her crown, first Miss America to not cry when winning the award... Van-L seems to have quite a good size gap in notability to Van-A, I would say enough to justify being primary. 132.205.93.88 01:41, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
  • She's most commonly known as Vanessa Williams. 132.205.44.134
    • She's known by both and uses the L. to disambiguate herself from the Soul Food series actress. It would be fine to do the same here. Crumbsucker 17:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. Ashibaka 22:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edit revert re: her "current" project

Some Other Editor keeps adding information to the introductory section about her current role in Ugly Betty ... the problem is that this is time sensitive information, i.e., after the series (or her participation in it) is concluded, it will no longer be her "current" project, and it would become incorrect information that would have to be removed ... in addition, contributions like

However, she has since gone on to become one of the most successful Miss Americas ever and is lauded as one of the most respected and multi-faceted performers in entertainment today, having conquered the music charts, Broadway, music videos, television and motion pictures. In her current project she plays conniving over-the-top magazine creative director Wilhelmina Slater on the hit ABC comedy 'Ugly Betty.'

are not appropriate for several reasons:

  1. effusive terms like "most successful", "most respected", and "conquered" are very non-neutral POV superlatives
  2. those assertions of "most" are unsubstantiated by any WP:RS citations
  3. no wikilinks are provided for the character, network, or show
  4. the material duplicates an entry (with appropriate links) that appears later in the article under Television, phrased in such a way that it will not have to be edited when the series concludes
  5. no edit summary was provided by the contributor, and uncommented edits may be reverted by anyone

That is why I reverted the edit (as I did a few days ago), and will do so again if the same thing happens ... this kind of incomplete fanboy editing simply degrades articles rather than improving them ... Happy Editing! —68.239.79.82 (talk · contribs) 06:57, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Most of this would be inappropriate, but "Williams has gone on to lead what is arguably the most successful career of any former Miss America," is simply a true statement, as her biography illustrates.--70.189.108.243 01:31, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Note that the qualifier "what is arguably" is what makes that a neutral point of view (NPOV) statement; without that qualifier, it would require a citation from a reliable source, or else it would have to be deleted. —68.239.79.82 07:23, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] italian american??

it's a voice there is on the web... and it seems she catholic... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.20.112.46 (talk • contribs) 12:46, 28 May 2007

[edit] Deleted two sections

I have deleted the subsections Filmography and Television works under the Works section because (a) the article is getting Too Long, and (b) they duplicated material better presented in the subsections Feature film roles and Television under the earlier Acting career section ... Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, so the Upcoming: subsection should never have been created in the first place.

IMDb provides a much more complete and up-to-date collection of her film and television roles, including the less notable and most recent ones that do not have Wikipedia articles, so readers should go to the end of the article and click her name in this link:

Happy Editing! —68.239.79.82 07:59, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Update: I added the comment above before actually making the changes, and then discovered that after I had removed those two subsections, there was nothing left under Works but Discography, so I deleted the former and elevated the latter (and it's subsections) by one level. —68.239.79.82 08:12, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
After Some Other Editor added a film already mentioned and linked in the Feature film roles section, per Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files, I have deleted the list and replaced it with a copy of the {{imdb name}} from the External links section so that readers do not have to scroll to the end of the article to find it … I also copied the {{tvtome person}} to the Television section for the same reason. —72.75.70.147 00:21, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Girl !

Vanessa Williams: you are my girl: reading in the sites of: Gretchen Wilson: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: December 2, 2007: you must to search: Vanessa Williams=Nadiya=Andrea Kempter: Wikipedia: December 7, 2007: Mariah Carey: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: Discussion: you must to search: written a few minutes ago: until to: Vanessa Williams: working with grammy programming: grammy rhythm: grammy video=movie: design, colors: grammy quality: the grammy is the greatest award: watching with wireless headphones on PC: COMPUTER: Lord of the rings: the return of the king: a 11 oscar production: camera: dvd: poster: 11 oscars: five projects + one project: 10 % of the one project is my own:: until to: Vanessa Williams: camera to: a&r: Vanessa Williams: my girl: girl you know it´s true: L-e-m-o-n I-c-e: Solstice: The Amytville Horror: Halloween: five projects + one project: try to combinate the movies: reading in the sites of: Minnie Driver: Wikipedia, the free encylopedia: discussion: written a few minutes ago: you must to search: Robert De Niro: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: written two weeks ago at the weekend: search: you are my girl: the soundtracks must to be in grammy quality: i have so many girlfriends: too: asking: asking you: are you ready for the five projects: single and album: take your chance: if you want to knock me out like Keri Hilson on stage and like in scream: clothes: you got it take your chance now: step into your own life: let me enjoy you: don´t think about it: i don´t need a man: like: on&on&on: laughing about you: i know you want me: you really wanna: straight to the door: i can show things: you never knew they exist: never: believe that: that´s no joke: rock: jazz: contry: into the night: all night long baby: i am your man: n-o-w t-h-a-t w-e f-o-u-n-d l-o-v-e: try to knock me out: D´N-A-T-I-O-N: T-a-k-e Y-o-u-r C-h-a-n-c-e: come on: i know you want me: straight to: there´s no time to loose: girl you know it´s true: Trey D.: you are my girl: girl: wishing you the best to the oscar and grammy awards: take my mission: good luck: girl is a pretty bomb girl: bomb: kiss: K-r-i-s-s K-r-o-s-s: J-u-m-p: let me be the one in your life: let me show you: how it´s done: should better to know: don´t forget it: i am yours: take me but don´t hurt: here we go: Uli Beckerhoff: Wikipedia: search: enjoy the price: come on: straight to: kiss: girl: bomb: Ariel Gade=Rachel Skarsten: discussion:=: Hilary Duff=Minnie Driver=Vanessa Williams: baby girl: i am yours: take your chance: you know our love is: www. you tube com. de, broadcast yourself, search for: California Love: next: fight machine like me: machine: worldwide: that´s right: wishing you the best to the oscar and grammy awards: until to: Vanessa Williams: you are my girl: girl you know it´s true ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.6.193.56 (talk) 03:50, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Graduated after 25 years

I added this, since this is the moment of glory in her life: Williams graduated and also delivered the convocation address on May 10, 2008, with 480 other students in the College of Visual and Performing Arts. She stated: “It’s been 25 years since I was a student here. It just brought home what my message was, which is cherish the moment; these days are irreplaceable and are the beginning of the rest of your life."capitalnews9.com, Vanessa Williams graduates from SUgmanews.tv, Vanessa Williams receives diploma after 25 years --Florentino floro (talk) 13:52, 11 May 2008 (UTC)