Talk:Van Tuong Nguyen/Vigil

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[edit] WikiVigil for Nguyen

May be it's not a proper use of the Talk Page. But I think many wikipedians (including me) who oppose to the hanging of Nguyen have gone through very emotional dates while weatching ordeal of this young guy goes to gallow, an inflated price which he doesn't deserve to pay (My own POV only!). Anyway, I leave this candle here as my own vigil to his death. RIP, Van Tuong Nguyen, 1980 - 2005. --202.84.173.100 03:51, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Anyone who wish to pay vigil please feel free to leave a message in this thread.--202.84.173.100 04:16, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

I think the talk page should be primarily for dealing with the article, not offering condolences. That being said, I was thinking about creating a "This user is opposed to the death penaly" babel-style template thing (or whatever they're called). It could have an image of the Amnesty candler logo on it, perhaps. I'd certainly display one on my userpage with pride. If someone is more adept at me with creating these things, please let me know if you can do it. Cnwb 04:23, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

The above anon seems to think this is a forum rather then wikipedia. "leave a message in this thread"? This is not the appriopriate page for such actions, and I have half a mind of completely removing it to avoid setting a bad precedent in other cases like this.--Huaiwei 04:29, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

There have been two responses (yours and mine) to this issue already. I think we've nipped it in the bud. Deleting may be taking things too far. I'm all in favour of leaving Talk pages as is. Cnwb 04:32, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Having said that, I've just moved the candle image so it doesn't interfere with text formatting. Cnwb 04:33, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, for me personally I don't mind. I think the death penalty is abhorrent and personally find the Singaporean government's attitude and policy on this matter to be inhumane. I'm with anon: I encourage people to note what they have to say on this thread. - Ta bu shi da yu 06:06, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

According to Australian Bureau of Statistics, there is an estimated 2.6 million Australians, aged 14 years and over, who had used illicit drugs in the 12 months prior to a 2001 survey, and several hundreds of Australians died each year from drug-induced death. I feel for those whose lives are destroyed by drug abuse. Shall we load a thousand images of candle here? --Vsion 06:27, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Sorry? I was not aware that these deaths were government sanctioned. - Ta bu shi da yu 06:32, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

You should understand what I mean. Van himself was remorsed for what he did and understand the harms of his action and I respect him for that. Since you expressed your opinion against capital punishment, then be prepared for others' counter-viewpoint; but this is the wrong page to discuss this issue; so let's not go further than this, afterall we know opinions are split right in the middle [1]. --Vsion 06:51, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, and you should also understand that if you agree with the death penalty (you have stated your position also, you know) then you will also need to be prepared for others counter-viewpoints. I have no qualms with punishing Van Tuong, however killing him is really not the answer. Heroin smugglign is a despicable act. State sanctioned killing is more so. - Ta bu shi da yu 12:11, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

No one is suggesting that what Van did deserved no punishment, as heroin is practically a death sentence in itself... but more people die every year from legal drugs such as nicotine and tobacco, and ironically, democide is history's number one cause of death. Not everyone is going to agree as to whether or not this was a tragedy, but alot of people do view it that way and I don't think removing the candle is necessary. Kitty1983

I think this is not even a discussion and should be removed. Wikipedia does not need to waste its resources on posts like this. The fact is that Van is a criminal. He violated the law. you don't tell everyone, "[it is] an inflated price which he doesn't deserve to pay (My own POV only!)". I live in Singapore, and without laws like these, who would be deterred from committing crimes like what Van has done? If Van could get away from the Death Row just because of the clemency from the Australian Govt, will Singapore have to pardon every criminal who has a nation behind him? In fact, he was in possession of around 400g of heroine, he should be thankful for the fact that he's only able to die once. My view is that a criminal is a criminal and he should not be remembered like a martyr. --202.156.6.54 09:22, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

You have to realise that there are a significant number of people who will also say, "my view is completely the opposite of yours!" So please tolerate the viewpoint of others just as others, I'm sure, are tolerating ours. Please do not dismiss alternative viewpoints as a "waste of resources". — Kimchi.sg | Talk 09:41, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

That picture of a candle is just so cute. Why don't you leave a picture of a syringe? Can I post a picture of the bottle of champagne I opened to celebrate the death of this worthless scum? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.156.6.54 (talk • contribs)

Ever considered getting psychiatric help? - Ta bu shi da yu 12:11, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

In this mediocre world where petty, worthless hatred such as that above is the norm, tolerance is a mental illness and you and I are the ones who need to see the shrink, Ta. Whatever Wikipedia talk pages are supposed to be for, I give my condolences to the family of yet another victim of Prohibition, whose only crime was to sell shovels to those who dig their own graves. (And IMO talk pages are for whatever the majority of Wikipedians using them say they're for, WP is very light on externally imposed policy.) --Last Malthusian 12:40, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

This is getting just insane. The article goes out of its way to tug at the heartstrings and get sympathy for Van (though the charming photo and the FUNERAL shot!), someone (ab)uses a talk page for a vigil -- something well beyond proper use of Wikipedia , and then the moment anyone expresses agreement with the sentence he needs "psychiatric help"??? So apparently, the majority of Singaporeans need psychiatric help? Everyone who believes in the rule of law needs psychiatric help? Those in the Singaporean government need psychiatric help? People who believe in harsh drug policies need psychiatric help? Before you turn this into a policy debate, let me make one thing clear: I am against the death penalty. However, this attempt by Wikipedians to turn Wikipedia into a branch of Amnesty International violates NPOV, and the attempt to marginalize dissenting views by calling their proponents mentally ill is intellectual laziness. All of you need to go read Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not before making another post on this article, or heck, on anything in Wikipedia. *Waits to hear my non-registered status get used as an excuse to berate or ignore me* 24.162.138.238 06:36, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Actually I am not sure if your comment is going to be ignoreed. But I do want to berate you for not registering, for otherwise I would think you appear fit to be an administrator here! :D--Huaiwei 08:11, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Who constitutes the "majority of wikipedians" in this case?--Huaiwei 12:44, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Can't you guys take this to usenet, or somethng? Cnwb 12:45, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

RIP, Van. May your death be not in vain.--Folksong 04:59, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

He is not the first, and he will not be the last. May God be kind to him where ever he is for the sins he committed while on Earth.--Huaiwei 08:44, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Sophocles wrote: "Now as we keep our watch and wait the final day, count no man happy till he dies, free of pain at last." This is the predicament of all people, whatever crimes they have committed. Van, now that your life is done, you may at last rest in peace. Yeu Ninje 03:18, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I place myself outside the "majority of wikipedians" then. I support the death penalty and this guy got what he deserved. He broke the law of a country, and got the punishment it entailed. End of story. And next time you feel like using a term "majority of wikipedians," make sure to survey me first, as I don't like being grouped unknowingly. Finally, this isn't a forum for such things (the vigil). The only thing keeping me from removing it is the edit war it would insue. -^demon 03:53, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Moved

I went ahead and removed the vigil from the main talk page. The talk page is to discuss the article itself, not to express sentiment (or lack thereof) of something. Don't worry people, it's all still here. I just moved it. -^demon 18:14, 7 December 2005 (UTC)