Talk:Van Halen/Archive4

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Contents 1 Milestones 2 Posting David Lee Roth As A Current Member 3 To-do List 4 Featured Music Project evaluation 5 Workspace/Storage Area 6 Credibility of the Rolling Stones Guitarist Ranking 7 More than ten million albums 8 Groups that have had two albums sell more than ten million copies in the U.S. 9 More Discussion About Groups with Two Albums Selling 10 Million 10 Orally shared Mammoth/EVH factoids 11 Fact transplant from EVH page 12 Top Gun Theme 13 Sass Jordan? 14 Flag change needed for the bros 15 Good article Review of GA status 16 GA Review 17 Cathedral 18 Roth wrote 'Jump'? 19 Lineups 20 Discography 21 New page for lineups 22 Picture inserts

[edit] Milestones

Date	Notes
October 23, 2002	Article started
April 5, 2004	Article restructured into present format
April 18, 2005	Became Featured Article Candidate (Original FAC Page)
April 22, 2005	Failed FAC
August 22, 2005	Request for Peer Review in preparation for FAC resubmission
September 14, 2005	Peer review archived
March 12, 2006	Resubmitted for Peer Review

[edit] Posting David Lee Roth As A Current Member

I have put a disputed tag on the front page, even though the current version at the time of this writing is accurate. Vandals have repeatedly listed David Lee Roth as the current vocalist despite the fact that this is not verifiable, and there has been no official announcement. Stating that DLR is the lead vocalist based on what Billboard says may happen is , at this point, nothing more than wishful thinking! If DLR does re-join, put his name up after it's official.

It's official...take down the flag http://van-halen.com/pressrelease.html

[edit] To-do List

To-do list for Van Halen/Archive4:	edit · history · watch · refresh
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Priority 2

[edit] Featured Music Project evaluation

Van Halen has been evaluated according to the Featured Music Project criteria, most recently affirmed as of this revision. The article's most important issues are listed below. Since this evaluation, the article may have been improved.

The following areas need work to meet the criteria: Audio - References - Format/Style

The space below is for limited discussion on this article's prospects as a featured article candidate. Please take conversations to the article talk page.

• Audio: Needs sound samples
• References: Needs print and scholarly sources
• Format/Style: Quite good overall, but the section headers and discography seem more complex than needed

[edit] Workspace/Storage Area

Please use this area to store any reference material or thoughts you would like to use in future edits. Create a sub-section with your username. This will enable us to keep the article clean and "in-production" while work is going on and let everyone see your thoughts which will help facilitate the collaborative process of expanding the article. If you need to lock the article for an extended period of time while you do edits, please us the {{inusefor|120 minutes (or whatever)}} template.

[edit] Credibility of the Rolling Stones Guitarist Ranking

First, Let me apologize if I am submitting this incorrectly; I hope this the misc discusion comment section. And I wish to thank whoever is guiding this article, you have done a great job.

My comment is about the reference to the Rolling Stones Ranking. The rankings in the Rolling Stones Guitarist list mentioned is widely regarded as one of the greatest jokes/insults in history of music pubs. Take a look a the list, and decide for yourselfand look up reactions to it around the net. You'll find that I am not exagerating.

Maybe you could add a more to the sentence that mentions the dubious nature of the rankings. I didn't want to do it outright, without asking, because it might have seemed like graffitti against Rolling Stone.

I will admit that as a guitarist, I am partial to Van Halen, but I'm sure anyone working on this article would be. Having said that, I will say that most of the rock fans around the world, and almost all guitarist would agree he would have to be in the top ten. And that's what initially piqued my curiousity about that list: that fact that Van Halen was #70.(!?!) I thought to myself, who are the 69 above him. When I looked up and read the list, I laughed out loud. Check out the list for yourself.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5937559/the_100_greatest_guitarists_of_all_time

I think he deserves proper representation, and mentioning that he is #70 on a dubious list is an insult, I believe. If I am making a big deal about something I shouldn't I'm sorry, but I really believe that list is silly.

t1n0 10:03, 27 November 2006 (UTC)t1n0t1n0 10:03, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More than ten million albums

"Van Halen is one of five rock groups that have had 2 albums sell more than 10 million albums in the U.S. (the others being: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Eagles, Def Leppard, and KISS)".

This is only true for unusually large values of 5. Should it be say "six rock groups", or is one of the others wrong? Also this sentence might be clearer if the second occurence of "albums" was replaced with "copies"

[edit] Groups that have had two albums sell more than ten million copies in the U.S.

The Eagles have Hotel california 16xPlatinum, Their Greatest Hits (1971-1975 29x Platinum, and The Eagles Greatest Hits, Vol. 2 11x Platinum. The last two are compilations, the article does not specify, so either add the list or say studio albums.

good call, done Oreo man 17:10, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More Discussion About Groups with Two Albums Selling 10 Million

The article currently reads: "Van Halen is one of seven rock groups that have had two albums sell more than 10 million copies in the U.S. (the others being: Led Zeppelin, Eagles, Pink Floyd, Metallica, Def Leppard, and The Beatles)." This is incorrect. First of all, Metallica does not have two albums that have sold 10 million copies. Their Live Shit: Binge & Purge video was certified 15x Platinum, but Platinum for a video is only 200,000 copies (thus it has only sold 3,000,000 copies). So Metallica's only 10-million seller is Metallica.

Led Zeppelin, The Eagles, Pink Floyd, Def Leppard, and The Beatles do have two 10-million selling albums. But so do 12 other artists (Bruce Springsteen and Billy Joel being the only other rock acts; there are 7 pop artists and 3 country artists).

Now, if you're only talking about studio albums (this means you're excluding live albums and greatest hits compilations) then Bruce Springsteen, Billy Joel, and The Eagles don't belong on the list.

So the sentence should be changed to one of the following:

• Van Halen is one of five rock groups that have had two studio albums sell more than 10 million copies in the U.S. (the others being: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Def Leppard, and The Beatles).

--OR--

• Van Halen is one of eight rock groups that have had two albums sell more than 10 million copies in the U.S. (the others being: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Def Leppard, The Beatles, The Eagles, Bruce Springsteen, and Billy Joel).

My research is based on this list [1]. Here is a complete list of all artists that have two albums that have sold 10 million copies:

• Rock Artists
  • Beatles, The (3 studio albums, 3 greatest hits compilations)
  • Def Leppard (2 studio albums)
  • Eagles, The (1 studio album, 2 greatest hits compilations)
  • Joel, Billy (1 studio album, 1 greatest hits compilation)
  • Led Zeppelin (5 studio albums)
  • Pink Floyd (2 studio albums)
  • Springsteen, Bruce (1 studio album, 1 live album)
  • Van Halen (2 studio albums)
• Pop Artists
  • Backstreet Boys (2 studio albums)
  • Carey, Mariah (2 studio albums)
  • Dion, Celine (2 studio albums)
  • Houston, Whitney (2 studio albums)
  • Madonna (1 studio album, 1 greatest hits compilation)
  • 'N Sync (2 studio albums)
  • Spears, Britney (2 studio albums)
• Country Artists
  • Brooks, Garth (2 studio albums, 1 live album, 1 greatest hits compilation)
  • Dixie Chicks (2 studio albums)
  • Twain, Shania (3 studio albums)

How about AC/DC? Back in Black has sold 42 worldwide and 21 in the US, highway to hell has sold over 7 million in the US, given that they have sold 150 worldwide of which 68 (less than half) in the Us it is very unlikely that highway to hell has sold less than 3 million outside the US.

The number of albums sold outside the US is irrelevant. The statement only deals with US album sales. And Back In Black is AC/DC's only 10-million-plus seller.

Sorry, didn't read properly. If you do a bit of maths you realise that ac/dc must have at least another ten-plus million album worldwide.

I'd go with - "Van Halen is one of five rock groups that have had two studio albums sell more than 10 million copies in the U.S. (the others being: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Def Leppard, and The Beatles)". This is because, strictly speaking Springsteen and Joel aren't bands. you could include them as seven rock ACTS I suppose. also, I read an interview with Def Leppards singer stating that he was proud to be a member of those 5 bands, no mention of Eagles, Springsteen or Joel 82.2.223.158 17:07, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Orally shared Mammoth/EVH factoids

I was acquainted with original Mammoth member Dennis Travis in the late 1980s and early 1990s. He shared a few interesting Mammoth and Eddie Van Halen factoids with me. However, I can't back up any of them. Can I contribute these factoids, or do they not "pass muster?" -John Rigali 16:35, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I too was acquainted with Dennis, but I do not recall him claiming he was a functional member of Mammoth. I did see a picture of him with the brothers in a non-concert setting. If I recall, he was friends with the brothers when they were in their mid-teens and not during the Mammoth years. Gh228 23:05, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

There were at least two occasions when I visited Dennis at his former home in Pasadena, California that he shared Mammoth anecdotes with me, including a photo of them relaxing after a music rehearsal in the garage of one of the members. He explained how he enriched Eddie's axslinging style, and he claimed to have written "Eruption" (from the first VH album) and was mildly upset that VH recorded it without his permission. (Dennis played it for me on his guitar once — wow!) He also told me a slightly different version of the formation of VH. So, where do I go from here? -John Rigali 06:41, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fact transplant from EVH page

There are some interesting (though largely uncited) facts on the Wikipedia EVH page which might be better situated here. I've moved them in and replaced them on EVHs page with a summary. Please don't randomly delete them just because they are uncited - I will work to get citations for these ASAP. Mikejstevenson 07:35, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Top Gun Theme

Steve Stevens played the Top Gun theme - absolutely nothing to do with EVH. Don't just write random bullshit when you don't know what you're talking about. This is an encyclopedia....Mikejstevenson 21:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC) Not true. Van Halen wrote the song and performed it for the movie. Don't know where your getting this Steve Stevens crap.

You need to check again...Steve Stevens & Jan Hammer played it. I've seen the video a million times back in the 80's Again...EVH had nothing to do with it. lgore69

Steve Stevens was the player on Top Gun. wingnutrules. 22 April, 2007

[edit] Sass Jordan?

Shouldn't this article also mention canadian rocker Sass Jordan? Meaning; she was being considered by the Van Halen brothers as possibly the new singer for the band after Cherone's departure in 1996. I've only seen one mention of a comment regarding it by EVH, but Jordan was jamming on new material with the brothers at 5150 in the summer of 1996. I mean, Jordan and the Van Halens even discussed the implications of such an action. Doesn't all this warrant an inclusion to the article? What saith thee, WikiPedians? --Tirolion 23:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

• Dang nabbit. I meant after the departure of Roth, and prior to the arrival of Cherone. You probably knew that, anyways. Btw, the linkage is here and here (just some of the gazillion links to the issue all around the 'net). This'd actually be the second time EVH would've considered a female singer for Van Halen. Patty Smyth, y'know. --Tirolion 06:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flag change needed for the bros

Can someone change the flags back to American for EVH and bro. They trained and were U.S. citizens in the 70s in the band. I know it sounds minor but I want Wikipedia to succeed. 14:37, 14 January 2007 (UTC) -Ben

They were born in the netherlands so I think it is important that the Netherlands flag is there. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.245.107.141 (talk) 14:32, 25 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Good article Review of GA status

This article is being reviewed at WP:GA/R for possible delisting of its Good article status. Teemu08 20:34, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review

In a unanimous 6 to 0 vote, this article has been delisted in a Good Article review. I'd be specific about what's wrong, except there were just so many concerns raised, it'd probably be faster just to read the discussion archived here: Wikipedia:Good articles/Disputes/Archive 13. Homestarmy 00:26, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cathedral

The article states that "Cathedral" features a new guitar technique involving Eddie's use of the volume control while playing with his left hand. I don't believe this is true. Ritchie Blackmore was using this technique as early as 1970 (as can be heard on many live performances of "Mandrake Root" from the period, as well as the studio recording of "Fools" on Deep Purple's 1971 LP "Fireball"). Blackmore probably wasn't the first to do it either, but that's an example preceding "Cathedral" that springs readily to mind. I think that statement regarding the "Cathedral" technique being something new should be removed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Matthew Turnage (talk • contribs) 00:54, 21 February 2007 (UTC).

I have heard no evidence that Eddie Van Halen committed Suicide on March 9th by stab wound to his chest. Why does this keep comming into the cronolocic list in December 2006-present?

Answer: Eddie Van Halen did create the technique but what made the new technique unique was the use of delay to get the multi-note sounds. That is the primary difference between EVH and RB.Wingnutrules (talk • contribs) 14:36, 22 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Roth wrote 'Jump'?

I can't believe more people haven't caught this:

The album's lead single, "Jump", featured a bouncy synthesizer hook and anthemic lyrics by Roth. Roth worked with then Yamaha product specialist (Yamaha DX-7) and sound designer Kevin Stratton to create the synthesizer hooks in "Jump." Stratton, a Peoria, Ill., native, and musical mastermind of the era took two weeks working with Roth to come up with the hook for "Jump." Although never credited Stratton's sound helped "Jump" became the band's first and only #1 pop hit and resulted in the band's first Grammy nomination.

Where did this come from? Sounds like fiction to me. Sladek 18:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Sounds too outlandish to be made up to me. And it never claims Roth was the only person in songwriting - just that that was his idea (The Elfoid 22:41, 7 May 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Lineups

OK, so I've added to it a lot now. Just wondering, should we add any more titles next to the dates? I'm just wondering if the Cherone-era Van Halen should be entirled 'Van Halen III' (in quotation marks perhaps to denote nick-name) and if Hagar-era should be called Van Halen II or 'Van Hagar' due to the popularity the name built up. Also wondering if there are any details on when other band members took up backing vocals - they aren't always credited on albums. I believe I heard somewhere that Anthony initially performed no backing vocals for a few years (The Elfoid 10:51, 27 April 2007 (UTC)).

Someone reverted this. I mentioned it here for discussion; I'd appreciate people entering ideas into the discussion before changing things (The Elfoid 12:27, 3 May 2007 (UTC)).

They're unencyclopedic fancruft nicknames. OK if you're writing for some dumbass teen magazine. But stupid in a page that is already a poor attempt at being an encyclopedia article. 156.34.142.110 12:57, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

They weren't just used by fans. Van Hagar was a name used by journalists frequently - it's as associated with Hagar's era with the band as Michael Jackson being called King of Pop or WackoJacko. And Van Halen III I'm pretty sure I heard the band use themselves. (The Elfoid 00:15, 4 May 2007 (UTC)).

[edit] Discography

It was far too vast for this already bloated page. Can someone please help me though? Sales figures (globally or in USA), certifications (if any) for the compilations and live album, and chart positions (primarily in USA, but ideally UK and others) would all add to it a lot. Thanks :)

(The Elfoid 23:56, 6 May 2007 (UTC))

[edit] New page for lineups

We can do a simplified one here, showing the ACTIVE band lineups, from the point where the band took on the name Van Halen onwards perhaps? I.e. only show official lineups so 1999 - 2004 only has Van Halen/Van Halen/Anthony in the lineup etc. (The Elfoid 12:37, 8 May 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Picture inserts

I've never figured out how to add those insert images to a page right. We need a photo of the band with Gary Cherone urgently. I would also suggest we get pictures of the band with Roth in 1996 when they briefly got back together. I'm wondering if we should have only one picture of the band with Hagar in 04 too (The Elfoid 23:13, 21 May 2007 (UTC))

and can we use http://i.realone.com/assets/rn/img/2/7/2/7/13527272-13527274-large.jpg (The Elfoid 23:19, 21 May 2007 (UTC))

OK so if anyone's even reading this page, I removed a spare one of the 2004 reunion since 2 is too many, but finding Cherone is hard...every page on his time in Van Halen III is foreign and I can't understand it. I stuck up a picture of the present lineup, but perhaps we should put it in the "Reunion with Roth 2007" paragraph and stick to just the logo up top?