Talk:Valérian and Laureline

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Good article Valérian and Laureline has been listed as one of the Language and literature good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
October 23, 2007 Good article nominee Listed
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[edit] Valérian's name?

Is there a reference in the series for the name Valérian being based on the Slavic "Walerian"? Valerian was the name of two Roman emperors, and that's a more likely source for the French given name. Epimetreus 02:02, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Mezieres stated it in an interview given in issue 12 of Dossiers de la Bande Dessinée in September 2001. Joe King 19:45, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moved from Valerian (comics)

I've moved amd renamed this entry to Valerian: Spatio-Temporal Agent since this is the strap-line used for the series at the top of every Valérian album. This should also help with disambiguation. Joe King 15:32, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merged from Valerian and Laureline

Some content was merged from Valerian and Laureline. Nabla 22:19, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Good article

Isn't this article about right for a Good Article review? It looks quite finished to me (as far as articles are ever finished of course). Fram 15:38, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. About right. Maybe a ComProj notice and a final wave of polish lookover before "filing for judgement"..? MURGH disc. 15:45, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Can we wait another few days? I've been looking at this article in light of the release of the latest album and want to make a few changes, tidy up the references etc. I can submit for GA once the new version's up. Is there a specific peer-review section for comics projects we can go to as well? Joe King 15:47, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
I guess that's just by adding peer-review=yes into the comicsproj template and following the next steps. Go ahead and start it when you're satisfied.MURGH disc. 16:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Remaining "cite needed"

The sentence "The film [The Fifth Element] also shares a number of thematic similarities with the Valérian series such as a macho male hero who is eventually rescued from the evil plans of a figurehead by an apparently frail woman that he was supposed to protect as she proves to be more powerful" is currently the last with a 'fact tag', and it would be nice to resolve it so the push for GA review can go forth. It's a tricky source to provide for a statement that doesn't feel (to me) accurate. Sure, Laureline (hardly portrayed as "frail") does rescue Valérian when they initially meet and many times later, but the partnership of V&L is very different from the film's dynamics. I'd be surprised if some reliable publication makes a point of this, so unless someone can provide the source, I suggest we delete it. MURGH disc. 13:42, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I added the {{fact}} tags myself because I found that line to be very dubious indeed (The Fifth Element owes substantially more, scriptwise, to The Incal than it does to Valérian, Moebius' unsuccessful lawsuit against Besson over the film notwithstanding) and in the absence of anything to back it up, I suggest we park it here and then put the article up for GA. — Joe King 15:20, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name change?

I notice that the latest album L'Ordre des Pierres the strapline at the top has changed to Valérian et Laureline. Should we rename the article? Joe King 15:47, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd support it, using the simplest correct title. MURGH disc. 16:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] English translations: further titles planned by Fantasy Flight

I hope I'm not breaking any Wiki-etiquette here but, for the information of other editors, I felt it best to copy the following discussion between myself and User:Emb021 regarding an addition he made to the article today — Joe King 22:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC):

Hi, you made the following addition to the Valérian: Spatio-Temporal Agent article yesterday: "They had planned to continue by publishing The Birds of the Master and then republishing Welcome to Aflolol, again as two issue comics, but this never happened.". Can you please provide a reliable source, per WP:V and WP:RS please? Thanks —- Joe King 17:03, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I added the info about Fantasy Flight's plans for additional Valerian 'albums' (comics, actually). I can't get a citation for this, as I don't have this info. I have long be interested in American reprints of various European comic albums (because I wanted to get them a read them), and have been keeping a list of them, including their titles and who published them. I also kept note of promised reprints, and when they didn't emerge, I would update my list to indicate they never came out. When FF announced their reprint plans for several European albums, I noted them, include Valerian. Now, other thing I wonder is whether or not NBM did in fact re-publish those 4 Dargaud-USA albums. Having the 4 DargaudUSA albums, I had no interest to get the NBM ones, so I am uncertain if they in fact re-published them. Some something for someone to confirm. --Emb021 20:04, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi Michael, thanks for coming back about your additions to the Valérian article. I note that you state that you don't have a cite for Fantasy Flight's intentions to print two further titles in the series but you also state that you have been keeping a list of European comics for which English translations have been made or scheduled. Presumably this information came from somewhere - either a press release from the company or a trade publication? Is it just the case that you never kept track of where you picked up the info in the first place? Given that the other editors on the article are keen to put it up for WP:GA, we're a bit sensitive about contributors adding uncited material at the moment. I would propose to keep the line with the {{fact}} tag on the article until the GA nomination is initiated - if either you (or another editor - I'll do some research myself) can find a cite then well and good, if not I think we'll park the line on the talk page until someone can come up with a suitable cite. I'll also copy our discussion onto the main article talk page for the other editors to see. I hope you understand - by the way, the other changes you made to the article were very useful. Regards — Joe King 21:53, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
You wrote me: "Presumably this information came from somewhere - either a press release from the company or a trade publication? Is it just the case that you never kept track of where you picked up the info in the first place?" Yes. I would get items like "Amazing Heroes" (which would have announcements of upcoming publications) and occasionaly read other comic zines with similiar info, catalogs from the publishers, which many times would list upcoming publications, and the like. I would update my list with these upcoming publications, because I was hoping they would be published (and I'd get them). Too often they either didn't come out, or worse, the publisher went under. While it would be great to get citations for all info, frankly the Wikipedia editors really need to ramp it down. I find it a bit off putting as a contributor. --Emb021 22:08, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Renaming and moving this article forward

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was Move Duja► 08:43, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I raised the question above as to whether this article should be renamed “Valerian and Laureline” since that was the strapline used in L'Ordre des Pierres, the most recently published album. On a recent trip to Brussels I noticed that this strapline has now been applied to the latest printings of the earlier albums. Accordingly, I think that renaming the article is appropriate and necessary. Unless anyone can make a well argued objection, I propose to perform the renaming one week from now (i.e. on Tuesday, 28 August).

It also hasn't escaped my attention that Valerian's fortieth anniversary is coming up on 9 November this year. While there's no way we'll be able to get this article to FA, I see no reason why we should not be able to mark the occasion by:

  1. Getting the article to GA status
  2. Nominating the anniversary for “On This Day” on the main page

Once the page move is finished a week from now, I'll get the wheels moving on this. Any comments? - Joe King 11:08, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I do think it needs to be simpler and this would work. My only concern is chasing the straplines as "Spatio-Temporal Agent" was an earlier one. I think the simplest might be its old location "Valérian (comics)" but wouldn't lose any sleep over "Valerian and Laureline" - the important thing is to pick one and stick with it. The important thing is the content and it is looking pretty good. If you can't get GA status this time around then the feedback from the proposal debate should help get it there next time. Keep up the good work. (Emperor 12:48, 21 August 2007 (UTC))
  • Support the move; keep a redirect from the old name. –Ulla— 08:00, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

[edit] Good article nomination on hold

Excellent article. I don't think you will have far to go to get it to FA status; later I can make some suggestions to that effect. I just want to suggest a few minor changes before passing GA:

  • You start out the article by referring to the comic as Valérian and Laureline and listing alternate titles. The next paragraph also calls it Valérian and Laureline. Subsequent mentions switch to calling it simply Valérian. It is unclear what is correct or desirable although from looking at the covers, Valérian is the popular title.
  • Near the bottom of the lead, the term "album" is introduced without wikilink or explanation. I suggest some context here; many readers (especially Americans and readers unfamiliar with comics) will not have heard of comic book collections referred to as albums. In many cultures, "albums" only refer to record albums. In the Publishing history section, you seems to switch to referring to them as "volumes" which makes it more confusing. Are albums the same as volumes?
  • In the Mr. Albert section, avoid usage of "etc." such as in "...fields outside the mainstream such as UFOlogy, telepathy, sorcery etc."
  • Check grammatical comma usage throughout; commas are only proper in compound sentences where the phrase after the comma is a complete sentence on its own. Example of incorrect usage: "...the pair have become freelance trouble-shooters, travelling space and time offering their services to anyone willing to hire them, while also searching for their lost home."
  • Hyphens in the text should be converted to em dashes or en dashes as appropriate per WP:DASH.
  • The image Image:Valerian New Future Trilogy.jpg does not have a properly completed fair use rationale template.

Thanks, --Bloodzombie 19:03, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Taking each of your points in order:
  • I think I've managed to fix this in the lead; I've used the shorter Valérian because the other titles are unwieldy and would affect readability if used. This convention is followed by most of the articles and interviews cited in the text.
  • I've reworked the lead using the phrase "graphic novel album" with wikilink to "graphic novel". Hopefully that should make it clearer. I've altered the refereces to "volumes" in the text except in the sentence "iBooks published Valerian: The New Future Trilogy (ISBN 0-7434-8674-9) collecting the albums On the Frontiers, The Living Weapons and The Circles of Power in one volume"; the use of the word "volume" here is to indicate that these are collected in one single book. I think this is an appropriate word in this instance.
  • Fixed
  • Fixed, I think; let me know if I've missed any!
  • Fixed, I think. I've ditched a lot of the hyphens.
  • Fixed
I've had to make a few changes to the TV adaptation section as the series is now being broadcast. Let me know what you think now and thanks for your help so far! - Joe King 21:51, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA passed and moving forward

Congratulations, this article has reached good article status. Thanks for addressing my points above. Here are some suggestions for further development toward featured article status:

  • The biggest obstacle to FA status right now is that the prose is not up to standard. It is for the most part grammatically correct, but does not meet the FA criterion that it be “compelling, even brilliant, and of a professional standard.” I recommend working with an experienced copyeditor who is interested in the subject to work through the entire article. For more suggestions, see User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.
  • Work to reduce reliance on primary sources (for example, issues of the comic) and foreign language sources if possible.
  • Consider converting your references to "Notes", "References", and "Further reading" sections as seen in featured articles like Lion.
  • Reduce fair use images that are purely for illustrative purposes; in articles such as this where free images are not possible, any fair use images in the article should ideally be the subject of critical discussion. For example, the image of Mr Albert is there just to show what he looks like. If there is no critical discussion of what he looks like, a lot of FA reviewers will object to the image.

Have fun! --Bloodzombie 14:29, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks very much for the pass and for your very useful advice regarding taking the article to the next stage. Much appreciates. - Joe King 18:29, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Concern

It belongs to the rich family of Franco-Belgian comics.

This sentence makes my head hurt. Does 'rich family' even mean anything? And it's kind of obvious it's French. Lots42 03:28, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree. There are several comments in the intro that made me feel like I was reading something from the publisher or at least from another source... - jc37 04:30, 25 October 2007 (UTC)