Talk:Ursula K. Le Guin

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Archives

Archive 1

[edit] Le Guin and anarchism

There is some controversy among editors of the Anarchism page about whether UKL is an anarchist. In attempting to discover an answer I have found the following three sources:

• [Michael Krasny] set out to ask a broad range of thinkers what they had read that had provided moral insight or served as a catalyst or paradigm of virtue, ethical behavior, or simply living the kind of life that makes a difference. What texts do they look to when they want moral guideposts or standards for ethical action?

Ursula K. Le Guin, Novelist

I read Lao-tzu and the Tao Te Ching at 14. My father had it around the house in the old edition with the Chinese text. I sneaked a peek and was and remain fascinated. Taoism is still an underlayer in my work. It begins talking about what we can't talk about--an old mysticism that intertwines with Buddhism and is practical and not theistic. Before and beyond God. There's a humorous and easygoing aspect to it that I like temperamentally and that fits in with anarchism. Pacifist anarchism and Lao-tzu have a lot of connection with each other, especially in the 20th century.[1]

• Q: How did you become a Taoist, if you would consider yourself one?

UKL: By reading Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu, mostly. I don't have my library here so I don't dare try to give you any names of scholars and popularisers who helped me understand Taoism - I would forget most of them. I don't really know how one "is" a Taoist. I do know that Taoist ideas inform a great deal of my writing.[2]

• ELM: You have talked about dry times in writing, and how sometimes one must wait for the writing tank to fill. How do you deal with such fluctuations in your writing life? Have you noticed consistent cycles? What helps you get through the dry times and refill your writer’s tank?

UKL: You sit and wait and wait and wait and wait. And fret. And consult the I Ching, which tells you to wait. So you wait and wait . . .

Traveling is bad for fiction but good for poetry. That's the only cycle I have noticed.

Work always leads to work, so it's good in a dry time to have some interest to pursue, something I want to learn about (because I'm a head-worker). Like the Revolution of 1830, say. I read about it for years. Just because I liked it. I was very interested for years in sleep and dream research. In other years I read a lot of utopias, and about utopias, and about Gandhi, and about Anarchism. All those learnings, which I pursued purely because I was interested in the subject, turned into novels in the end.[3]

These statements hardly clear up the ambiguity, other than to illustrate that she claims pacifism as much as anarchism, and Taoism more often. She may "be" a Taoist, and maybe an anarchist and a pacifist as well -- note her disavowal and use of quotes around "is" -- or she may just be "interested in subjects" that "turn into novels." 67.168.216.176 20:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

See her introduction to The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas. And the "is" is a quite sensible caveat about Taoism. Septentrionalis 01:06, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

This section should cite Samuel R. Delany: " To Read the Dispossessed," in The Jewel-Hinged Jaw. N.Y.: Dragon Press, 1977, pp. 239-308. Briankharvey 23:53, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ekumen and Hainish Cycle

The first three novels do not speak of the Ekumen and are republished as Three complete novels of the Hainish series. Also Le Guin speaks just of a 'League of Worlds' in The Dispossessed and The Word for World is Forest, writer later but set before the first three novels.--GwydionM 17:06, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent deletions

"159.134.55.215" must have thought they were being helpful by removing links that are in red, i.e. no article. But Wikipedia is growing all the time. I've added items and then found there was an existing link I never knew about. Links in red - or however they show up on your PC - are a pointer to what needs to be added next.--GwydionM (talk) 11:14, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Writers-influenced-by section?

The one that leaps to (my) mind is Orson Scott Card, who refers to the ansible in "Ender's Game." Briankharvey 23:53, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I disagree; I think that makes the article lose focus. I would say, if you can think of writers who specifically say that they've been influenced by her work or find research that discusses her influence on the genre, that's OK. --Mistsrider (talk) 02:42, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Annals of the Western Shore

I am currently plowing through her (excellent) Annals novels, and I have to say they are no more or less "young adult" books than the Earthsea Cycle. I think they should be categorized as a third Le Guin universe, alongside Earthsea and the Hainish novels. 17:07, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A Major Minor Edit, plus notice at the top of the page

I've gone through her list of fictive works and formatted them pretty thoroughly, based on what I've seen to be common in listings on other author pages, using the principles of consistency and readability. The format I have used is:

• Title, Year of Publication (Alternative names is was published under; Anthology it is included in; Awards received)
  • Example: "The Day Before the Revolution", 1974 (in The Wind's Twelve Quarters; winner of the Nebula Award and Locus Award)
  • In WikiFormat: "[[The Day Before the Revolution]]", 1974 (in ' '[[The Wind's Twelve Quarters]]' '; winner of the [[Nebula Award]] and [[Locus Award]])

With these parameters:

• Short stories should be indicated by double quotations; novels by italics (e.g., "Short Story", Novel).
• Dates should not be used when commenting on which anthology a work belongs in (see above; The Wind's Twelve Quarters is not followed by its year of publication. I find this makes everything look less confusing.
• All text with awards and fiction works should have internal links if they have Wiki articles.
• Comments on the plot, themes, or critical reviews of a work should NOT be listed there. Save it for the elsewhere in the article or put it separately in the work's article page.

What I'm not sure about is whether other people think that it's appropriate to list the ISBN numbers here? Personally I would vote no given Le Guins' large body of work, much of which requires award/anthology commentary. Comments? Criticisms? Suggestions? --Mistsrider (talk) 02:42, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

EDIT: Also, I think that this discussion page is WAY TOO CONFUSING and so I've added the notice at the top and will start deleting unsigned comments within a few days. --Mistsrider (talk) 02:45, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

What you've done so far looks really good. As well, i'm pretty sure there's a template that would do the same as the text you added to the top of this page, but I'm not sure exactly where it is, i'll look around. Murderbike (talk) 03:51, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Found it, and now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure it's not a good idea to delete comments from talk pages, even if they are unsigned. Murderbike (talk) 03:53, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Don't delete valid old comments, archive them. See WP:ARCHIVE. But do delete irrelevant nonsense or vandalism. -- Quiddity (talk) 05:00, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Murderbike for the template! I remembered seeing one also but I couldn't find one for the life of me. Quiddity, thanks for the guideline link. Archival it is! Anyone have a preference for permalink vs. subpage? --Mistsrider (talk) 08:41, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I've archived up to around 2007. Feel free to unarchive any threads that hadn't been answered, and to add any more threads to that first archive page until it is quite large (120kb or so) before starting a second page. :) -- Quiddity (talk) 20:07, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

The cleanup looks great. Only problem is the repeated links, in sections like "The Hainish Cycle short stories", things like The Birthday of the World only need to be linked in the initial instance.

ISBN is optional, but some people like them (I do. My monobook.js rewrites the links to point straight to amazon, which is occasionally handy). Use the first edition and/or the most recently available edition (and label it as such). If the work has its own article, just including the isbn there is fine too. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style (lists of works) for details. If in doubt, copy the style of any recently featured article on an author :) -- Quiddity (talk) 05:38, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Editing the "themes" section

I just posted an edit to the "Themes" section. I think I managed to address a lot of the "Peacock" word issues, though it's far from fixed, please let me know what you think. As I got to the last couple of paragraphs, I realized I was having a hard time dealing with all the material on the Ekumen that has been added here. It seems to me that this should be a section primarily discussion themes across UKL's work, including the Ekumen novels, but isn't exactly the place for a detailed discussion of her approach to faster-than-light travel technology in these books. The page on the Hainish Cycle might be a better place for this information. I've left most of it, I'm too tired to figure it out now. please let me know what you think. Conurbation (talk) 10:19, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

I made some corrections. The ansible was invented just before the formation of the League of Worlds, used by them and also by the later Ekumen. As far as I recall, we are not told whether or not the original Hainish expansion had it. My reading - though it's a point of view - is that we are to see the original expansion as being too dependent on technology and not respectful of human values.

I think that Rocannon's World and The Word for World is Forest are the only novels in which the ansible is seen to have a direct role in anything. In the first of these it is used to draw down lethal military force, rather different from the later themes. --GwydionM (talk) 18:25, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Worldcon GoH Note

I disagree with the notion that 1) Le Guin's GoH appearance at Aussiecon in 1975 was an "award"; it is actually no such thing. It honors a body of work and it is possible for the Worldcon GoH to have never won a Hugo or Nebula - I'd need to check but I think Bert Chandler falls into this category. To many in the sf community this honor ranks above any yearly offerings; 2) if the SFWA Grand Master and Gandalf Awards are in the intro paragraph, and they honor a lifetime's work, then surely the Worldcon GoH status should be as well; and 3) why are the National Book Awards in the intro paragraphs if they are just awards?

I am not attempting to denigrate any of the awards this author has received. On the contrary, they need to be up front to indicate her standing in the literary community of which she is a major part. The Aussiecon GoH certainly fits that bill. And we need to get a level of consistency here. --Perry Middlemiss (talk) 23:58, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I still don't think it belongs in the lead, but I've changed the heading of the section where it appears from "Additional awards" into "Additional honors".--Noe (talk) 02:32, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Are you stating then that the Worldcon GoH status is of lesser import than the SFWA Grand Master and Gandalf Awards? It comes down to a different level of interpretation. These two awards are given by Le Guin's contemporaries in the field, the Worldcon GoH is given by the readers and fans. I feel both are of equal importance.--Perry Middlemiss (talk) 04:20, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't mind it being mentioned briefly in the lead, but I don't think it should be an entire paragraph of its own, as it was before I removed it. I suggest you try your hand at it.--Noe (talk) 13:00, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll integrate it into the other honors. --Perry Middlemiss (talk) 11:06, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

In the end I thought it better to move the whole Additional Honors paragraph up to the top. I can't argue for one honor without arguing for all Lifetime Achievement honors. And they are all important as they indicate her standing both within the sf field and outside it. --Perry Middlemiss (talk) 11:12, 11 May 2008 (UTC)