Talk:Urban Trash

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This article was nominated for deletion on 26 May 2008. The result of the discussion was keep.

[edit] cleaned up

Since Jeremy Nell's article has been deemed fit for Wikipedia, shouldn't this, by extension also be deemed fit? I've cleaned it up, and removed the unverified claims. Crowlike (talk) 22:51, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] flagged for deletion

I've sufficiently edited the article so that it no longer looks like an advert. I have removed all biased information, and kept (and added) relevant information. I'd like to request that the "advert" tag removed.

Crowlike 13:01, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I am attempting to rectify the "advertisement" manner of this article, by adjusting the information accordingly. I am also attempting to cite relevant notes to achieve a more objective result. My efforts are being reverted each time. Please advise. Crowlike 10:56, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I've read the various Wikipedia guidelines, and trying to edit this article enough so that it doesn't look an apparent advertisement. I am responsible for removing the large block of text earlier, but my actions were reverted. The reason for my removing of those areas of text, is to minimize the subjective nature of the article (the trade-off being simplicity). Crowlike 09:55, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

This article was authored by Jeremy Nell himself. He uses a number of aliases on wikipedia so that it appears that a disinterested third party is editing his articles. Crowlike and Fokjulle are both Nell. FokJulle is Afrikaans for "fuck all of you". He uses this alias on amatomu.com (which indexes the South African Blogosphere) and on muti.co.za as well as when he comments on blogs. rrcatto (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 17:10, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Can you prove your claims? 198.54.202.94 (talk) 18:45, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Examination of the editing history of both Crowlike and Fokjulle shows that all their contributions have been limited to only two articles (Jeremy Nell's biography and the article on Urban Trash). They have never edited any other articles on wikipedia. Fokjulle is a confirmed alias of Jeremy Nell. It is the username Nell used to register his blog TrashMedia.co.za on amatomu.com. Only by massive coincidence could some other third party have decided to register that exact same username on wikipedia with the sole purpose of editing articles related to Jeremy Nell's interests. I believe that this evidence constitutes conclusive proof of my above claim. rrcatto (talk) 19:46, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

This is stupid. This article has been here for years, and suddenly, because of one person's comment, it is up for deletion? This cartoon is fairly widely syndicated around South Africa, and even in Namibia and the UK. It certainly does warrant its space. This shouldn't even be a debate, since it's been approved time and again by moderators. The claims above aren't even conclusive and have no baring on the article. Crowlike (talk) 22:59, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

According to the Urban Trash blog site, the Urban Trash comic strip is being retired on June 28 2008. Please also see: WP:COI. rrcatto (talk) 01:38, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Again, not good enough reasoning. Gary Larson's Far Side was retired in 1995, yet it still has an entry. Crowlike (talk) 09:58, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Far Side is well known and has been published many times in book format. Urban Trash is little known and Nell's project to publish a book was scrapped. He wasn't able to interest any publisher which I feel proves illuminating on the issue of whether or not this cartoon strip is notable. There are millions of cartoon strips in this world. rrcatto (talk) 11:59, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Not good enough, still. Please provide strong evidence - and NOT anecdotal opinion - that Urban Trash is "little known". The fact that the comic appears in a number of publications is enough to warrant the article's legitimacy. Crowlike (talk) 12:41, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

This article contains many instances of original research - see WP:OR. Many uncited assertions are made about many things including, for example, Nell himself and the distribution of Urban Trash. A link to an interview between the Natal Witness and Nell leads to a 404. rrcatto (talk) 13:51, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, obviously it needs original research, otherwise it would be deemed false. If you feel that citeations and links are missing, then feel free to fix them where possible. Jeremy Nell, and in particular, Urban Trash are well recognised in South Africa. Crowlike (talk) 14:27, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

WP does not publish original research. Whatever facts presented must be backed up with cites to reliable sources. I don't think links to video interviews on zoopy constitute reliable sources. Fact is, there is a dearth of information published in reliable sources about Jeremy Nell (and his related interests) which indicate clearly that he is not notable. rrcatto (talk) 15:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Urban Trash is in numerous publications on a daily basis, including one of South Africa's largest newspapers. That's quite enough. Your views indicate a personal vendetta against Nell, and I'd suggest that your bias be visited. Crowlike (talk) 15:10, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Can you cite reliable sources to prove which publications Urban Trash is published in? rrcatto (talk) 15:24, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes. Email the editor of The Times. Go to www.thetimes.co.za. Then email the editor of the Natal Witness (www.witness.co.za). Then email the editors of news24.com, iafrica.com, iol.co.za, and so on. Then continue going along until you're happy. I might add that you're being ridiculous. Now you're suggesting that Nell's comics aren't published where they're being published. You clearly have an agenda, and I think that this needs to be noted by Wikipedia staff. If you had any inclination of contributing constructively to Wikipedia, you'd do the work yourself, instead of getting others to scramble around your claims. Crowlike (talk) 17:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I've been to those urls and found no mention of Urban Trash. Perhaps you can give direct links? The article also claims that Urban Trash is published in Namibia and the United Kingdom but does not cite sources nor provide a list of publications. rrcatto (talk) 17:59, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Since Urban Trash is coming to an end soon, I looked to see if there were any news stories about that. I found one mention on http://www.artzone.co.za/template_level2.asp?parentseq=4649. It's an undated Press Release issued by the Big Issue. Here's a quote from that article:

His new work promises to be the anecdote to his malaise.

rrcatto (talk) 19:20, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

"I've been to those urls and found no mention of Urban Trash." - rrcatto.
Since you clearly didn't bother looking, I'll help you along. If you go to www.news24.com, you'll see Urban Trash listed in the primary navigation, under "Cartoons". The same goes for www.iol.co.za. In fact, Urban Trash is also diplayed on the front pages of the following South African daily newspapers' websites:
Cape Argus (www.argus.co.za),
Cape Times (www.capetimes.co.za),
Daily News (www.dailynews.co.za),
Pretoria News (www.pretorianews.co.za),
the Post (www.thepost.co.za),
Mercury (www.themercury.co.za),
The Star (www.thestar.co.za),

198.54.202.94 (talk) 22:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

On News24.com alongside Urban Trash are listed two other cartoons - Stidy and Treknet - neither of which I have ever heard of. Neither of them have articles on Wikipedia. On Iol.co.za, Urban Trash is listed alongside Zapiro, Mama Taxi and Crack of Dawn. Zapiro is well known and has a WP article. The others are unknowns.

My point is that just because a cartoon happens to be published by a newspaper, does not automatically confer notability status on it, nor make it well known. rrcatto (talk) 09:52, 29 May 2008 (UTC)