Talk:Uranus/Archive 2

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Talk archives for Uranus (current talk page)
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Contents

Vandalized?!

Somebody reset this page! It's been vandalized! I was going to lookup the Greek God and the planet, but someone put the stupid joke in!!! -- Stone 17:04, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh dear! You mean a Wikipedia article based on a planet who is the butt (literally) of hundreds of schoolyard jokes gets vandalized? No way! Stupid kids! --SpyMagician 05:26, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm surprised

This page isn't vandalized more. Is the "your anus"/"urine us" joke finally old?

Nah, there are always good jokes for it, example :There are smelly cold gas clouds on Uranus, classic
Is there life in Uranus? How big is Uranus? What colour is Uranus? Has a man ever been in Uranus? ...etc. Good, clean family fun :) — Jack · talk · 16:28, Tuesday, 10 April 2007
The problem is that to six-year olds, the joke isn't old, and there will always be enough people turning six to keep this joke alive. --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 04:41, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I corrected the "Your anus" at the beginning, but do not know how to properly correct the "...named after the God of booty sex..." w/o possibly making things worse (although I really doubt that's likely). This page really should be protected.

Grndrush 20:35, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

protection

Is this page permanently protected? 132.205.44.134 22:38, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

  • It's probably semi-protected because of so many anonymous vandalisms. Just register if you want to edit this article. — Pious7TalkContribs 00:32, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Expansion

Here's a few thoughts for further development of this article:

  • The organization could be more consistent with the FA'd planet articles.
  • How does the Uranus compare density-wise with the other planets?
  • The role of Uranus in the discovery of Neptune should be described. (Measurement of Uranus' orbital perturbations, the role of John Couch Adams, &c.)[done] Serendipodous 23:07, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Is the listed composition by number of atoms, by number of molecules or by atomic or molecular mass? Is the portion of hydrogen by single atom or is it molecular hydrogen, for example? (Presumably the later since hydrogen-rich molecules like methane and ammonia are listed.)
The only source I've been able to locate which is unequivocal about this is Britannica Online, which presumably, is not a valid source. Serendipodous 18:45, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
  • What is the internal structure?
  • The article could discuss why Uranus is depleted in hydrogen and helium, and the formation scenario.[1] [done] Serendipodous 23:07, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
  • The article could explain why Uranus has a blue-green hue.
  • There are too many one-paragraph sections. "Explanation for bland atmosphere" and "Cloud features" could be merged, for example.
  • It needs an "Orbit and rotation" section, as in the Jupiter article.
  • Why does this scientific article need an astrology section? That seems distinctly out of scope.
  • All of the references really should use cite templates. Currently they are highly inconsistent in format. Some are little more than links; Patrick Moore's note is missing a title; The Cornell University reference has the author's names in upper case; the IAU reference is all in upper case and lacks any other information, &c.[done] Serendipodous 23:07, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Another image or two wouldn't hurt. Is there an image we could use that includes details of the clouds? [Done] Serendipodous 06:56, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
  • The article should cover every topic mentioned in the World Book Encyclopedia article. For example, this article does not include much of a discussion about the planet's magnetic field.[done] Serendipodous 23:07, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Some interesting informational links: [2] [3]

Thank you. — RJH (talk) 23:14, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Astrology

Why is there a section called "Uranus in astrology"? If you use Jupiter (the only featured gas giant) as an example, astrology is just a link to the astrological article on it. I think that that section and several other references make this article is too astrology-leaning when this is supposed to be about the scientific (not pseudoscientific) view of the planet. — Pious7TalkContribs 00:36, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

You are absolutely right on this one, Pious7. I was bold and went ahead and removed it. Pseudoscience is rightly marginalized because of the WP:WEIGHT policy of Wikipedia. --ScienceApologist 20:48, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
The other planets have links to their respective sections in the Planets in astrology article, and I think that it makes sense that Uranus have one too; but no, it definitely should not be mentioned in the article. Serendipodous 19:06, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Contradiction

The article says:

"...the other planets (from Mercury out to Saturn) have been known since ancient times, since they are visible to the naked eye."

(implying that Uranus is not visible to the naked eye), and then later:

"...under dark sky conditions it can be seen with the naked eye as a faint star."

Ideally this needs fixing. Matt 01:02, 27 April 2007 (UTC).

Another slightly confusing paragraph

I had to read this several times:

"The record belongs to a French astronomer, Pierre Lemonnier, who observed Uranus at least twelve times between 1750 and 1769, including on four consecutive nights. (Lemonnier is often called careless or even "sloppy" for this, but it is important to know that he realized 9 of these within a short time of Herschel's discovery and most of his observations occurred at the stationary point in Uranus' orbit.)"

The missing information – presumably the reason why he has been called "careless" or "sloppy" – seems to be that he observed Uranus twelve times without realising it was a planet. That needs stating. It's also not at all clear what "he realized 9 of these within a short time of Herschel's discovery" means. "Realized" as in "executed"? Realized that his earlier observations were the same object later identified as Uranus? Matt 19:57, 27 April 2007 (UTC).

Good Article Status

How do we improve this article so it meets the criteria for good article status again? I'd like to see this big blue world (and Neptune as well) recieve GA status. RingtailedFox • Talk • Stalk 16:25, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Missing data

I'm a first time contributor so I'm not sure if my method of adding my two cents is right or not so just let me know if it isn't. But this article doesn't contain simple data such as length of orbit around the sun and length of rotation on its axis. This information is readily available in the articles about the other planets and should be in this one.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.216.68.109 (talk • contribs) 22:39, 14 May 2007

This is exactly what the talk pages are for, so don't worry! Adding your comments to the bottom of the talk page with a header makes them easier to find, though- use the "+" tab at the top of a talk page to have the software do that automatically for you. As to your thoughts about the article; while the information you mention is clearly marked in the infobox at the right side of the article, you have a point in that it's not mentioned in the body of the article itself. Perhaps it should be. —Elipongo (Talk|contribs) 06:40, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Mean density

Why doesn't the infobox's "mean density" figure match the infobox's mass divided by the infobox's volume? 8.6832x1025 kg / 6.834x1013km3 equals 1.2706 g/cm3, not 1.318. Is this some kind of typo? The mass figure is likely to include the atmosphere, while volume and mean density would be meaningless for the atmosphere because there is no defined upper limit, but adjusting the mass downward makes the mean density go below 1.2706, not above. NASA's Uranus Fact Sheet says 1.270, although most of the other numbers don't match, even where both figures are for 2000 - presumably because the infobox's unnamed sources were different. However, one would expect the infobox's density figure to use the same assumptions as the infobox's own mass and volume figures. Art LaPella 06:06, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Seems odd to me

that this article is still not GA class, when Neptune, which is far less organised and well-sourced, is. Serendipodous 08:31, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

This article has been vandalised!! If you block all the text you can see there are way too many spaces in the article (sometimes dozens after each other), can someone get them out please? 129.125.165.88 12:21, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I've tried to contact the person who protected the page from editing, but even his discussion page is protected, how am I supposed to discuss then. 129.125.165.88 12:25, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
I fail to see where you see the vandalism, and I don't understand what it means to "block all the text". Could you please explain? I'm sorry about this page being protected against IP-edits, but mainly due to the planet's name, this article is being vandalized so often that we have to keep it semi protected for most of the time. But if you sign up an account (it's free, you'll be even more anonumous if you do, you don't even have to enter any e-mail address), you'll be able to edit this and every other semiprotected page on Wikipedia within 4 days. But if you could explain where you see the vandalism you're refering to, I'll fix it right away myself now. Shanes 12:52, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
I've made a screenshot of what I mean. As you can see there are way too many spaces, making the article bigger then it should be. I can't believe this is done by accident, but maybe I'm wrong. Nevertheless I think those spaces need to be removed. 129.125.165.88 13:11, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
(This is also seen on the User talk:MartinBot page. I tried to get them away but I messed up, can someone else do that one properly also? 129.125.165.88 13:29, 29 May 2007 (UTC))
The blank line is to show a paragraph in the article: the MediaWiki software ignores a single carrige return. Thanks for your concern though. Soaringgoldeneagle 08:35, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Featured topic deadline

Per the new resolution at Wikipedia:Featured topic criteria, the Solar System featured topic will be eligible for removal after 1 January 2008 if Uranus is not improved to GA or FA level. Thanks.--Pharos 03:10, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

It is somewhat ridiculous that Uranus is the only solar system article that is not GA or FA. Probably due to the constant vandalism. Soaringgoldeneagle 15:40, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I don't know why it isn't already; it's as good as any GA on the list. Serendipodous 13:13, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Then nominate it and fix any minimal problems if it doesn't make it. — Pious7 13:47, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

OK

I've added two new paragraphs and 12 new citations, but before I can submit it for GA consideration there are a number of issues that still need to be resolved:

*The historically incorrect pronunciation [ jʊˈɹeɪ.nəs ], with stress on the second syllable and a "long a" (ūrānŭs) have become very common, however, perhaps through the influence of the related adjective "Uranian" (always pronounced [ jʊˈɹeɪ.ni.ən ] or the similarly-pronounced name of the element uranium, or from a mischievous delight in homophony. This sentence could be unsourcable: leave it in or take it out?

*in India it is named Aruna (Devanāgarī अरुण), the charioteer of the sun god Surya in Hindu mythology. Can't find a good online source for this. Any thoughts?

  • I'm not sure that the article should necessarily need to carry the modern non-English-language names of discovered planets. They're often difficult to reference and the name is already covered by the links in the "In other languages" table along the left-hand column. Any connection to ancient mythology is surely of no consequence in this instance. Just my opinion, of course. — RJH (talk) 17:29, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I'll keep it in. Neptune and Pluto already have their own versions of that line, and if I get rid of this one I'd have to get rid of theirs too, which will bring on the Indian Brigade. I'm too tired to deal with them. Serendipodous 17:58, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Err... I wasn't aware this would cause a diplomatic crisis. All I can suggest then is to move that sentence onto this talk page, in a separate section, and request a reference so it can be put back. That'll at least temporarily resolve the issue in terms of getting the page up to GA. (That approach has worked for me in the past.) — RJH (talk) 19:15, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

*Between 1797 and 1977 the rings are rarely mentioned, if at all. This might be the result of the unfavourable inclination of the ring system for part of the intervening period, or due to a reduction in the brightness of the ring system. I don't see how to source this.

That's a problem not only for this page, then. The material first appeared on Wikipedia in Voyager 2 and I split off huge parts of that page for Exploration of Uranus. I then used a summary of that page to expand the exploration section of Uranus. All the involved pages need to be fixed, not just Uranus#Exploration. I can assume that more of Voyager 2 than just the second on Uranus was plagiarized. — Pious7 17:18, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
That may be so, but our priority right now should be saving the solar system topic from being deleted. Once a better draft of the exploration section is written, it can be exported to the other articles. Serendipodous 17:27, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I've reworded and broken up the exploration section, so it shouldn't be much of a problem now. Still I would appreciate an examination of all the paragraphs marked with citation 42 just to be sure I haven't missed anything. Serendipodous 09:39, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

*I can't verify anything in the Visibility section.

That site works for Jupiter because Jupiter has a 12-year orbit, but Uranus's orbit is seven times longer. I think I'll need an ephemeris that gives absolute values for its apparent magnitude at any point in its orbit. Serendipodous 07:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Screw it. I'll stick to the one thing I can verify and delete the entire bloody section. EDIT: found a good source. Redrafting section. Serendipodous 16:17, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Once these issues are resolved, I will go ahead and nominate it for GA. Serendipodous 16:39, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Moved Hindi comment here

until it can be properly sourced

while in India it is named Aruna (Devanāgarī अरुण), the charioteer of the sun god Surya in Hindu mythology.[citation needed]

Does anyone know how to contact any of the various Indian language Wikipedias to see if we can get this (not to mention similar lines in Neptune and Pluto) sourced?

Serendipodous 00:57, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

This is stating the obvious, but of course ancient Indians wouldn't have known anything about Uranus, and any name from Hindu mythology would be of quite recent origin.--Pharos 22:43, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Well, yeah but the ancient Greeks didn't know about Uranus either. Serendipodous 11:10, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
As it's an English-language, the Greek mythology is relevant because of the etymology of the planet's name in English. For foreign-language names to be included, it's probably necessary that a reference be included. — RJH (talk) 15:57, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
You could always use http://nineplanets.org/days.html as a reference. It has the names of the planets in various languages. Doesn't seem to have Indian though... Dazcha 23:53, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

OK - I'll list comments here as I go..cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:54, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

In LEAD, Jupiter is a good model to go on. I'd expand it like that one. Maybe put derivation of name down a sentence or two. No hard rules but have a bit of a play with how in pans out. It is a bit abrupt as is.
Uranus is the first planet discovered.. --> "was discovered..."
Sir William Herschel formally discovered the planet on March 13, 1781. The discovery of Uranus expanded the boundaries of the solar system for the first time in modern human history. - "formally announced"? also "expanded the known boundaries" (?) - also "for the first time in modern human history." sounds clunky but I'm not sure how to rephrase it.

I guess you will have a tilt at FA with this at some stage so the sections will need some reorganizing. I've looked at Pluto which is a good model. In which case Discovery and naming should be next section while Visibility' would be subsection under Physical Characteristics section next down the list. This also gives it some more hierarchical headings which is good for future FA.

..never recognised as a planet by any ancient civilisation. - "by ancient stargazers/observers" or something. Sounds funny as is.

:This name was not acceptable outside of Britain -> "not accepted"

:The historically incorrect pronunciation [ jʊˈɹeɪ.nəs ], with stress on the second syllable and a "long a" (ūrānŭs) have become very common, however. --> "has become very common" (verb agrees with singular pronunciation) and drop the redundant "however"

Composition goes under Physical Characteristics section

:Like Neptune, its diameter is roughly four times Earth's, though Neptune is more massive and thus denser. - reword to avoid reduplication

resemblence --> "resemblance"
it has roughly ten times less mass than Jupiter and far less elemental - eek, try "it is roughly a tenth of the mass of Jupiter and has far less..."

:cagegory - typo

from the original nebula and commence a runaway increase in size. - explain the "nebula" and rephrase the colloquial sounding "runaway increase in size"
One of the most distinctive features of Uranus.. - try "unusual" as adjective instead.
Astronomers had initially expected Uranus's magnetic field to be in line with the solar wind, since it would line up with Uranus's horizontal poles, but, due to its lopsided nature, the field in fact lies in a position similar to those of the terrestrial planets- break this sentence up - too many commas.

Place Atmosphere under Physical Characteristics section

Place Rings under Physical Characteristics section

Place Magnetic field under Physical Characteristics section

Rename Natural Satellites Moons

Overall, I feel the prose is ok for a good article (but would need quite a bit more tweaking for FA) and it otherwise qualifies in other areas.cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:26, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Issues dealt with. Let me know about prose problems, though you might want to tell me on my talk page, just so we don't end up swamping this one. Serendipodous 16:45, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
I'd appreciate it if someone went over the lead; I'm finding it very difficult to put Uranus's axial tilt and the orbits of its moons and rings into words. Serendipodous 18:27, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
OK I made the last two tweaks myself as they were straightforward. I feel it passes now, though the prose would need a further going over for a proper tilt at FA.cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:27, 15 June 2007 (UTC)