Talk:Upajjhatthana Sutta
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[edit] Use of Pali in this WP article
After much deliberation over a couple of months, I decided to add core Pali text — the basis for the English translations — to this article. I did so because I have seen several translations of the "five remembrances" and some of them (including one currently included in this article's "External links" section) significantly deviate from the original text. This is a problem because some people may become enamored with a deviant translation, incorrectly thinking it represents the canonical words of the Buddha, and thus pursue a practice outside the Dhamma (the Buddha's teaching). FWIW, though, as indicated by the side-by-side comparison of English and Pali, the Thanissaro (1997b) translation used appears to be very faithful to the original Pali, especially when examined using the Rhys Davids & Stede (1921-25) PED translations.
If someone disagrees with the recent insertion of Pali into this article, I would sincerely appreciate it if it were first discussed here prior to unilateral deletions being made.
Thanks ahead of time. With metta, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 21:12, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Two translations
Hi Larry,
Thanks for presenting the two translations for discussion. I just thought that “I am sure to die. I cannot avoid death.” was more straightforward than “I am subject to death, have not gone beyond death.”, but I am no Pali scholar. I’m afraid that this article is subject to change, has not gone beyond change ;) I don’t think it will last with two translations side by side. Perhaps we could have a vote as to the best translation, or just informally discuss it here. Dhammapal 20:52, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
- Hi Dhammapal, I think you are correct on multiple counts and, like yourself, given my very limited understanding of Pali, it is difficult for me to assess which translation is more faithful to the original Pali. Nonetheless, I think additional benefits of the Thanissaro translation includes:
- (a) popularity: based on my limited experience, it seems to be used in the real world much more often (probably because it is readily accessible from the Internet).
- (b) transparency: being on the Internet, quotations from it can be readily verified (vs., for instance, the Nyanaponika & Bodhi translations which, if I may point out, were unexpectedly edited before being used here)
- Therefore, I think there are a number of factors to be weighed. Perhaps we should contact User:Stephen Hodge or another to evaluate the authenticity of the translations? Otherwise, until someone barks, I'm happy leaving it as it is, empowering readers to decide for themselves. Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 22:00, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
- Hi Larry,
I got the translation from our External Link: Upajjhatthana Sutta read aloud which says it comes from the Nyanaponika and Bodhi anthology. The suttareadings site is associated with Access to Insight where the Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation is. I support the Nyanaponika version. It is more straightforward, and Wikipedia readers are not scholars. Are Wikipedia editors supposed to be scholars or librarians? (Is there a Wikipedia guideline page on that question?) I especially enjoy editing and reading Simple English Wikipedia. Check out the Buddhism category. It is often quite delightful. with metta Dhammapal 09:20, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
