Talk:Unseen character

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 2007-08-14. The result of the discussion was keep.
Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 2008-01-19. The result of the discussion was keep.

Contents

[edit] The Diaz Brothers in Scarface

I always thought they were particularly funny unseen characters. They were a constant threat throughout that movie.

[edit] Rebecca

Does Rebecca (the character from the Daphne DuMourier novel of the same name) not belong on this page? Surely she's one of the most famous unseen characters of all time? Or maybe I missed something... :) -- LisaJay 19:13, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

There is a page listed on this one where there is a list of unseen characters. Rebecca is on there, both referred to from the Hitchcock film and the DuMourier novel. Jonomacdrones 19:30, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spoiler

A spoiler heading would be good. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yeloow (talk • contribs) 23:22, 15 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] The list

What happened to the complete list of unseen characters. Why are some of these articles missing? RobertCMWV1974 21:32, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 3-2-1 PENGUINS: The face deal.

You never see GrandMUM's face. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.192.94.145 (talk) 03:44, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


Actually, in the final episode (then the final episode, I understand NBC has asked that it be renewed), they do show her face. I was rather disappointed that they did that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.21.92.29 (talk) 05:49, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Darth Vader

Would Darth Vader count as a partialy seen character in Empire Strikes Back? Since although his armor is frequently seen, the only actual shot of him is the brief image of the back of his head in his meditation chamber... M Schwarz (May 20, 2007)

  • No, since he is seen and heard at the end of Return of the Jedi. -- Interrupt_feed 00:35, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Carlton the doorman

In sitcom: Rhoda —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.183.106 (talk) 21:30, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] George Steinbrenner

"The real George Steinbrenner was going to appear on the season seven finale “The Invitations” but refused after learning that Susan Ross would be killed off." The George Steinbrenner article says different. -- Ianiceboy 06:54, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unseen characters in books

"Hidden characters appear in all varieties of fiction." I am intrigued by the idea of an unseen character in a book. I think these points need more elaboration. The article says only:

  • books feature characters who are merely referred to.
  • In the Xeelee Sequence of novels by Stephen Baxter, the titular aliens are mentioned numerous times, yet never actually seen.

It is true that, in a book written from a limited point of view, a character may be referred to within that point-of-view without being described within it. However, the reader experiences all characters, seen and unseen, in essentially the same way: both are described using the same medium, language, whether inside of outside the frame story. The degree of differentiation experienced depends on the craft of the author. This is a lesser distinction that that of an unseen character in a audio/visual fiction, who is literally unseen/unheard by the spectator, in contrast to the other characters on stage or screen. This difference is felt regardless of the craft of the actors and director. jnestorius(talk) 22:49, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

It seems to me that any discussion on this topic should make mention of Godot from Waiting for Godot. Zozoz 04:38, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What, no mention of Robin Masters?

Robin Masters being unseen is a major running gag of Magnum, P.I.. It is surprising that no mention is made of him. His own article seems to make him qualify as "partially seen character". Luis Dantas 18:53, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References

Here are some references which could be cited in this article:

http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories/123098/LB0242.shtml http://eoneill.com/library/review/24-1.2/24-1.2d.htm http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10F11F7385A12738FDDAF0894DA415B848DF1D3

Or use some others. Sources are important. FrozenPurpleCube 04:14, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


[edit] UK TV

I think this is too specific for the article, so I'm moving it out. -Malkinann 10:27, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unseen characters in United Kingdom television

The best-known unseen character in British television was Elizabeth, the wife of Captain Mainwaring, the main character in Dad's Army; not showing her added a touch of whimsical fantasy to the programme. In The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin, Reggie's mother-in-law is never seen, but Reggie keeps thinking of her as a hippopotamus. In Are You Being Served? the action almost never left the department store, so the odd mention of the characters' lives outside the store tended to include unseen characters. The scriptwriters Dick Clement and Ian La Frenais included a large number of minor unseen characters in Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads? and Porridge, in the form of people the leading characters had known earlier in their lives who were mentioned briefly. In hit sitcom Fawlty Towers, Sybil's best friend Audrey was only ever referred to, or in contact with Sybil Fawlty through telephone calls, but later appeared in the penultimate episode, played by Christine Shaw. In Drop the Dead Donkey the owner of Globelink News, Sir Roysten Merchant remains unseen throughout the series until the final episode, where the character Gus Hedges confronts him after Sir Roysten shuts down the company. At the end of the scene, Sir Roysten claims he has no idea who Gus is, despite the fact Gus has been one of his most loyal servants.

[edit] List

That list of unseen characters is ridiculous and unnecessary. It takes up about 94 KB, which is absolutely ludicrous. Please leave it out of the article. --Jtalledo (talk) 22:30, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Waiting for Godot

Someone above did mention Godot in Waiting for Godot, but nothing else has been said. I, for one, really think that should be in here, but someone with more knowledge on the subject should do it. -Gohst 02:03, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chef from Star Trek: Enterprise

  • I think Chef should be included in this list, since he is never actually seen or heard throughout the series. We do see him in the last episode, but he's portrayed by Jonathan Frakes as William Riker. -- Interrupt_feed 00:38, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ted's Mother

In Their Story Ted dreams about having hair and accidentally kills his mother, at which point she is clearly visible. So she's appeared once... R'win 08:45, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Detective John Munch

...of Law & Order:SVU & Homicide: Life On The Street (among others). Anyone remember seeing any of his wives? I can't help but think of him when it is stated in this article that Lenny Briscoe's wives were never seen or heard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jlg9999989 (talk • contribs) 17:02, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

One of his ex-wives made an appearance on Homicide:LOTS (her mother's funeral). Also, he married recurrer Billie-Lou, but they divorced before SVU started. Ralphmerridew (talk) 12:05, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This seems to be a recreation of an article ("List of unseen characters") which was deleted after an AfD discussion

I have blanked it, in accordance with a suggestion on the Wikipedia help page. --Orange Mike 04:24, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I have deleted the page, per criteria G4 (ref: Special:Undelete/List of unseen characters, Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_unseen_characters). The article was substantially a copy of the previously deleted article. Take it to deletion review if you'd like. Keegantalk 05:21, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Error: Sauron

Sauron should not be included as an example of this. He is seen in the Lord of the Rings books, near the end of The Return of the King. He appears to the Gondor forces in a gigantic clouded spirit form before disipating. He is also depicted ("see") repeatedly in The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales. Smyslov (talk) 03:41, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Is he seen in the movies, however? If he is not seen in the movies, he is an unseen character in the movies, although not in the books. Respectfully, SamBlob (talk) 05:11, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Well, he's listed in the Books section of the article, and clearly this is in error. And he's definitely shown in the Peter Jackson movies, as the very first one opens with a battle scene where Sauron directly participates. Sauron very clearly appears in The Return of the King: "there rose a huge shape of shadow, impenetrable, lightning-crowned, filling all the sky. Enormous it reared above the world, and stretched out towards them a vast threatening hand, terrible but impotent: for even as it leaned over them, a great wind took it, and it was all blown away, and passed; and then a hush fell." Smyslov (talk) 16:11, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Whither narrators?

Naturally, a narrator who is a character in the show, like the eponymous Alfie, or Alan-a-Dale in Robin Hood (1973 film), would not be an unseen character, but what of the narrator of The Dukes of Hazzard, of whom the characters appear to be totally oblivious? (Waylon Jennings does appear in an episode, but as himself, with no in-context mention of him being the narrator.) And what when the characters are not oblivious of the narrator, as at the end of each "Pigs In Space" and "Veterinarian's Hospital" segment of The Muppet Show? Respectfully, SamBlob (talk) 05:08, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Purge

Currently the article is ~119kB long of that I'd say approximately 118kB is original research. I realise that a lot of work has been put into the article but Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought. Just looking through the article some of the information that is contained is just wrong - for example "Ugly naked guy" is listed under both charcaters who have never been seen and characters who have been seen (he has been seen - in the episode where Ross gets his apartment). There is no way to verify any of the examples given (except the very few that are sourced) other than the word of editors, this is not acceptable - reliable source have to be provided. I'm pretty sure the subject itself is notable as its been a commonly used plot device in many different forms of media but as it is the article does not belong on WIkipedia. I'm going to remove all the list entries - apart from those sourced and stubbify all the (completely unsourced and OR ridden) individual sections. I'm sorry to take such drastic action but in encyclopaedic terms and by the standards for inclusion of content set out in Wikipedia's policies and guidelines the article is a disaster. I'll be looking for reliable sources from which the article may be re-written, I hope that other editors will support and contribute to this effort. Guest9999 (talk) 18:40, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I've removed the bulk of the content, there was very little to save from the body of the text as it was completely unreferenced I ended up removing everything but the lead. The rest read more like an essay that an encyclopaedia article and was pretty much 100% original research. Articles should be built around reliable sources, not the other way around. Guest9999 (talk) 19:21, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] How about...?

How about ... 'er indoors' - Arthur Daley's wife in 'Minder'?

or

Pvt Godrey's sister Dolly in Dad's Army? (she made awfully good cucumber sandwiches you know)

86.156.91.140 (talk) 20:07, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What makes a character notable?

I guess nobody know the answer. (Or rather: everybody knows some answer, but we will never agree on a definitive answer).

If the wikipedia article about a drama (TV show, stage play, whatever) does not mention the character's role in the events, then I would say he or she is not notable enough for the purposes of wikipedia. --The very model of a minor general (talk) 22:19, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mom and Dad

Mom and Dad in Cow and Chicken are never seen from the waist up —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.176.191.175 (talk) 21:59, 26 May 2008 (UTC)