Talk:Unreal Championship 2: The Liandri Conflict

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I did the following edits

  • WEAPONS
  • CHARACTERS/ROSTERS

I will contuine with it later, and add pictures to stand out:P >x<ino 02:32, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Done and dusted! Now this is a whole new Unreal Champsionship! (oh yea, to that fool that made this article, the article is now mine:P) >x<ino 18:17, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

There are still a LOT of typos in the additions, like "Rocket Luncher" :), "scarterd", etc., and the use of "&" and contractions, (for instance "can't" instead of "cannot") aren't very encyclopedic. I am also not sure all the detailed info you supplied really should be in a Wikipedia article. (See: Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not.) In other words, it could end up being deleted by someone. Retodon8 18:24, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

yea, deleted by you

Which you are doing so now. And I will revert the deletes you just did/ and are doing now!
>x<ino 19:35, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Well, a lot of the spelling/grammar has been corrected, so that's good. Also, it's been a while since you wrote the above, but I don't recall deleting anything, and the article history around that time doesn't show anything about anything being deleted by me either. It sounds like you were accusing me of something, but trust me, I won't just delete anything without reason, and if I do, I will always comment on why I'm deleting it. If I'm not sure if something serves a purpose after all, I'll discuss in the Talk page before deleting anything.
(I'm removing some of the white space below so I don't have to scroll so far anymore.) Retodon8 01:31, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Cleanup

Cleared out spelling errors, even wat cmdbot didn't see:P

  • Also I am thinking of the Bots mini section should go...
  • I am thinking of reducing the Kill Awards...maybe by creating an article of it's own will be fine.

Maybe I should just delete the weapon kill awards

  • Maybe the Stages section should really go
  • I still can't see what we need the Xbox Live Section for...

Now I have cleared out all unuseful data!

The problem I got now is...the Roster Table. I need to change the background colour to something much matching!

>x<ino 16:07, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

This article is in an atrocious state: the language is simply unreadable, much of the information is presented poorly, and large sections are totally unreadable. If you're going to edit an English page, please make sure that your grammar, spelling and syntax are correct - this page needs major copyediting. RandyWang 07:28, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I added some info to the Coup de Grace section about the "special" Coup de Grace moves in the game (same moves, just a pre-set button/control stick combo to do them). I am also changing the wording on the wall jumping, because it is inaccurate. Wall jumping is not new to the Unreal Tournament series, nor to the previous Unreal Championship game. However, it is far easier to do in third person than it is in first like all previous games in the Tournament/Championship series. UncleThursday 19:07, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I believe this article is overly long, and potentially violates copyright on the instruction manual. I suggest trimming and re-writing some parts of the article to be more concise, without losing any real details.UncleThursday 05:36, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Well... reading through some of the other threads on this page, I see that one guy seems to be a real fanboy who won't let go. :P Don't worry, I'll throw some floaties out for Retodon8 and RandyWang. I'll get to deleting unencyclopaedic information. Now... before I start, I should cover my bases. So, for first base, I cite WP:NOT#INFO. For second base, I cite WP:NOT#GUIDE. For third base, I cite scope guidelines. And home base I can cover too if asked or if I feel like it. Ong elvin 15:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rosters!

I have decided to delete the ABILITIES

Because it's make tha article too rough!

I will also add the name and age! For the ABILITIES, will have it's own section

>x<ino 19:07, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

So..I will create a table for the Rosters...it looks too weak! By the way I need the sentence/ dialog, of that annoucer. When you click on Ascencsion Rites.

>x<ino 08:22, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Confusing

To that suker putting a tag: "Confusing". I don't see what is so confusing in this article. I did the best I could to fill it up with data.

Can you please list me, some points why this article is confusing:P

>x<ino 12:03, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

There is a lot of data, but it's not 'information', I'll see if I can scrape some time together in the next few days to clean it up. (As an example, detail about the unreal engine or xbox specific extentions to it should go into the appropriate article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_engine) A lot of this reads as copy from the manual, but with typos and grammatic errors. Lorax 01:00, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

But the Unreal Engine Section, is meant to be special! Because Unreal Engine 2X was originally made for this game. Even in Unreal Engine website, there are 2 sections, 1 section for Unreal Engine 3 and the other for Unreal Engine 2X. The U.E 3 section explains all about Gears of War & UT2007. While U.E2X explains about only UC2. In the article Unreal engine, this shows some games that also uses U.E 2X and were also released. But the website talked about UC2 alone. Now do you see why it is important?

Yea some info was scrape from the manual, but how els will I know about the game!? How will you know about this game if you havn't even played it!? That's also wat wiki is about!

Some info scrape from the Manual will have to be the weapon sections. If you can do better, delete all the weapons info and make it 2x better than mine & the manual.

Yes there is alot of information, infact to many information. And you said not informative. PLease just list out all the sections and informations that are not informative. And we will deal with it.

Cuz I really do hate it, when others with no experince about something, cleans up an article thinking they know better. Then later the article becomes a stub

>x<ino 12:37, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, I already said something similar to Lorax's post a while ago. Wikipedia isn't supposed to be a game manual, so a lot of information you'd see in one of those shouldn't be in here. This article isn't just meant for people who played the game (although actually I'm not sure if you're saying that or the opposite). Information about the Unreal engine should be in its own article, as it basically has nothing to do with this game. I still think some things can be deleted from this article, and I'm not afraid it will revert back to a stub anytime soon. :)
By the way, do you know about Wikibooks? I haven't really used it yet myself, but it seems like that site could benefit a lot more from some of the information you have added to this article. Recently information on enemies from Doom has been moved there as well, so I think that is the general concept for it. Retodon8 01:31, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

First of all, what is so confusing about this article? I have already cleared out unuseful informations. Second, you keep saying it's like a game manual. What is so manually about this article. The problem right here is! You fools are not listing out the problems!

This is the second time you resorted to name calling (in the edit summary). I'm not enjoying that, so would you please stop doing that? Thank you.
Also, I don't think the article is confusing, but I do think there is information in there that shouldn't be. (I'm not sure what the best way to respond to what you wrote is, with the different paragraphs, so I'll just reply to everything individually and indent.) Retodon8 00:22, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia isn't supposed to be a game manual, so a lot of information you'd see in one of those shouldn't be in here. Is adding the Character/Roster Section a game manual? You havn't still listed out wat sections are the game manuals!

Yes, a detailed list of characters, rosters, and levels is something you'd find in a manual, although perhaps not in UC2's manual, but that's not my point. The point I'm trying to make is that that kind of info isn't always encyclopedic, and that there are other websites for such detailed information. Let me add right now, that I am just 1 person, 1 opinion, and I could be wrong, but as there aren't many others working on this article, who knows! Retodon8 00:22, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

This article isn't just meant for people who played the game (although actually I'm not sure if you're saying that or the opposite). Do you even know wat an encyclopedia is?. Because you see alot of editors editing articles and creating one. You think Wikipedia is just a everyday encyclopedia? Wikipedia was also created for the future. Because what encyclopedia means is. Finding out informtation about a subject, all information surround it, even if you don't know nothing about it!. So...I don't see what, if people who have played Unreal Championship are the only one that can understand this article. This article is for anybody to read, if they want to find information about this game!

Yes, I know what an encyclopedia is. I don't think Wikipedia is a regular encyclopedia either, as I'm one of the people that edits articles there. If I'm the person you mention, the one who knows nothing about UC2 and looks it up on Wikipedia, I'd like to read about gameplay, graphics, a comparison with other Unreal games like you made is nice too, but a list showing each character's age is not something I'd be interested in. Not in the future either. UC2 players in general probably aren't either, only the "real" fans of the game/Unreal series would be, and again, for those people are the Unreal fan sites. Retodon8 00:22, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Information about the Unreal engine should be in its own article, as it basically has nothing to do with this game. Answer me this question. How many arrogrant people are there in this world?

Because how can you say the unreal engine as nothing to do with this game. When the game's graphic was powerd by Unreal Engine 2x. If you actually play the game, it even says! have you actually viewed the website? Because the website clearly explains what Unreal Engine 2x is capable of. And it clearly mentions it's for this game!

How many arrogant people in the world? 432089 maybe? I'm not saying the engine has nothing to do with the game. I am well aware of the fact that the Unreal engine runs the Unreal games, including this one. I am one of those Unreal series fans I mentioned above. What I did say, is that there is an article about the Unreal engine specifically, and all detailed information about the engine, should be in there. Mentioning the new special effects briefly is good, after all like you said they are UE2X-specific, and are almost as much UC2 as they are UE2X, but going into detail about them is something for the engine article. Retodon8 00:22, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

By the way, do you know about Wikibooks? I haven't really used it yet myself, but it seems like that site could benefit a lot more from some of the information you have added to this article. Recently information on enemies from Doom has been moved there as well, so I think that is the general concept for it.If you haven't used Wiki book, how come you know info from Doom 3 are being moved?

87.74.26.12 17:14, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
I know because the person who did it wrote it in the edit summary if I remember correctly, and I think the article automatically redirected me to the Wikibooks article. Actually now that I check to be sure, it seems List of enemies in Doom is still very present in Wikipedia, so I was referring to the wrong article. I'm not sure which article was moved... something video game (and I think FPS)-related. Sorry about the confusement anyway.
Ah, I found it in my watchlist, a new broken link to Gameplay of Doom. There doesn't seem to be any links to deletion pages, so truthfully I don't know how I know it got moved for sure. Perhaps those deletion pages get deleted/moved themselves over time, and maybe I read it in one of the edit summaries before the page got deleted. Truthfully, I don't remember for sure where I read it. Retodon8 00:51, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
In conclusion, perhaps the best thing to do is find some other people, and hear their opinions on what should and what shouldn't be in Wikipedia, and in which article. I doubt either of us will change our minds just by reading eachother's reasoning. Retodon8 00:22, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

First of all, you 100% need a great help. Because if you feel this article lacks, information, grammar or mistakes. It's your duty to improve it and correct it...be bold.

And you seem to be forgetting about all that, just because I managed to f*king improve an article from stubs. Because I know if you know all about this game, you would have added the information.

I think I already mentioned this, but... please do not use HTML "BR" tags. Yes, they work, but you shouldn't use them, you should just skip a line and start a new paragraph that way. Thanks. I asked you to stop with the name calling, but could you please stop with the profanities as well? I'm assuming I don't even have to explain why. Thanks. Retodon8 12:50, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Now you coming huslting me about this article is like a game manual. Why don't you just f*k off for good. Because if you wanna help in the article, you do it. If I see you are correct in your edits, I will back you up. And if not I will revert you. You just seem to me moaning all about this article. Now you put done, this article needs double checkin on spelling mistakes, grammar and tone ect. Because you know it is your duty to correct all that. Who is stoping you from editing!? The worst of all, you saying, I am putting my own opionion in this article. Now I know for a fact you have 100% not play this game. Wikipedia is all about anyone can edit, but not just anyone, people who have experinced in that particular subject can experince. That is all wikipedia is about, and I have 100% have experinced in this game, even checking out websites and forums for this game. What experince do you have for this game!? The only experince you have is for Unreal Tournament, but not the championship.

Why should anybody "f*k off"? This article is not your article, you don't have anything to say about it, at least nothing more than the rest of the world, and if you don't agree with that, you'd best stop leave the article yourself. Read the Wikipedia documentation again if you're not sure what I'm talking about. The problem isn't that others aren't willing to check for typos and the like, but the fact that you're adding new typos are a huge rate, so others can barely keep up fixing your mistakes. You even "correct" things that were already correct. For instance you changed "feats" (right) into "features" (wrong), and you claim "multiple" means "3" while it isn't. If you would use a spelling checker and preferable let someone whose first language is English proofread what you wrote (I'm assuming English is not your first language), this wouldn't be a problem. As for your comment about not having played the game... I edit a whole bunch of articles where I know nothing about the subject, but those edits don't usually get reverted or fixed, because it's not always necesary to know something about the subject to fix the article. Also, you say you know UC2 yourself, but then how can you write stuff like "AMSD" and "Skarrj" I think you wrote as well. Retodon8 12:50, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Right now, I can see you have made some edits, and I am reverting your edit...Really poor! Now I suggest you leave me alone and I do my duty and you also do your duty. Or you should just go away!

Because this seems to me, we have to call some other wiki users, that have experinced in this game, or greatly experince in Unreal Universe. To come check on this article if it's all user opionion and game manual.

>x<ino 09:47, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, more Wikipedians in general, not even Unreal fans would help a lot already. I notice RandyWang added a template I didn't know about just for that, so thanks RandyWang! Retodon8 12:50, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Language

This page is plagued with very poor English grammar and syntax, sentence structure language in general - in particular, the errors on this page appear to be coming from User:Xino. This page has already been submitted for peer review on this basis: please read the request at the top of the page, and check that your English is correct before editing the page. RandyWang 10:08, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

This is the exact sh*t I am talking about! You see an error, you cry like a damn girl. If you see a false information, the best thing to do is edit it, then type it out in the Talk page why you edited it

>x<ino 00:00, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Revertion and Changes

I saw the changes you did RandyWang. I must say it was horrible and also cool.

You managed to give less details to the notes and sections...inanother words

  • You managed to get the notes to the point
  • Whereas, I went into details

And again, the horrible details you did

  • You read some details I contributed, and managed to change it to a "get to the point" style, but deleting some right information
  • You deleted all the facts details
  • You changed, deleted and then added wrong informations: for example saying the Rocket Launcher can fire 2 rockets at a time

I made a lot of changes and revertion on mistakes made. I don't have time now, cuz I had to waste alot of my time doing this, I will list out all the details and changes I have made, and why they shouldn't be reverted!

>x<ino 10:55, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
  • I edited the article specifically for language and syntax - the whole page was replete with major errors that made it virtually unreadable, for various reasons. I kept as much information intact as possible, while removing redundant and irrelevant points where they did nothing to improve the article. If you have specific complaints, I'd be happy to hear them, but I'm not sure how any changes I made were "wrong". As for the "two rockets" point, you'll note that I was not the one to say that: the information was already in the article when I edited it. I simply rewrote the sentence to that it actually made sense. I have also reported this article for copyright violation. I thought we had this discussion on the Unreal Tournament 2007 Talk page? RandyWang 11:08, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Yea the Unreal Tournament 2007, the complaint over the adding of the Visuals.

This is what you said

(which you've totally ignored, having failed to cite your source correctly and take only a small portion of the text),

And that is what I exactly did here!

>x<ino 00:08, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Xino, let's go through this step-by-step, with reference to Wikipedia's fair use policy:

  1. You copied 480 words from the Unreal Technology website, out of ~1'000 total on that page. Since when has taking nearly half the content of the page been within Wikipedia's fair use policy, which calls for the use of copyrighted work to be "as little as possible." This is totally ridiculous: if you need to take text from a page like that, you must make sure to copy 'as little as possible', and I do not believe that you even attempted to do so.
  2. You copied material onto two pages - this one, and the Unreal Tournament 2007 page - that had little relevance to the rest of the article. The Unreal Engine has its own article, so by posting that information on the pages of two games that use the engine, you're adding nothing to the point of those articles. Do we post detailed information about the Unreal engine on the pages for Deus Ex, Undying, Unreal Tournament 2003 or any of the hundreds of games that use it? No: that information is irrelevant in those contexts. So you've failed to meet another aspect of Wikipedia's own policy, that "The material must contribute significantly to the article".
  3. You failed to attempt to rewrite the given information yourself, an option that was available to you and that you should have taken. Wikipedia's policy requires you to use a free source of information where possible, and one was available to you: to take the information, and condense it in your own words for inclusion on the website. Another point that you failed to meet.
  4. You failed to clearly and distinctly define which parts of the text had been copied from the Unreal Technology website. On the occasions that you did attempt to cite your source, you failed to do it in a way that made it absolutely clear which parts had been lifted from elsewhere: by saying that the "bullet points" were from a certain source, you fail to notify the reader that all of the text in that area of the page had been copied. The bullets were marked up in a totally different way to the text in between them, and you failed to unambiguously point out that all that text had been copied.
  5. You chose your source very poorly. As I've already made clear, it's very naïve to copy text from the internet equivalent of a sales brochure and hope that it will be as unbiased, objective and accurate as Wikipedia demands that its text must be. You attempted to turn this hype-laden text into the meat of a Wikipedia article, violating the user's trust in the website as an unbiased source of information.

Of course, if you'd like to respond to this I'd be happy to hear, but the fact remains that you were very much in the wrong to copy and paste huge slabs of text from another website onto Wikipedia in the way that you did. RandyWang 12:48, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Trust me, I just feel like, I am totally wasting my time in wikipedia. Because hyprocrites like you will just throw away the information you give to them back at your face. Yes, do what ever you like, edit the crap and mistakes out of the article. And when other people who actuall know what Unreal Championship 2 is about, go on reverting and changing stuff.

>x<ino 15:29, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

How, exactly, am I being hypocritical in editing your posts to remove glaring faults? Are you even going to defend yourself, or just whine about how unfair Wikipedia has been to you? RandyWang 20:56, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Xino, you keep ignoring everything your opposition says, and instead keep repeating that you have played UC2 (which hardly is the only important thing like I mentioned before), that everybody else is a hypocrite/dumbass/whatever (which isn't constructive, and something that reminds me about pots and kettles), and that they shouldn't rewrite/remove what you wrote (even if your additions/edits weren't improvements). This way you aren't disproving anything for RandyWang or I said; in fact, you are only making our position stronger, as evidenced by Katefan0's comments for instance. Try to respond to our concerns instead of repeating the above everytime. Finally, yes, if you expect this article, or any Wikipedia article to be yours, you are wasting your time here, but that is not anybody's fault but your own, or if you prefer, Wikipedia's itself. Either way, there is nothing you can do about it, but stop putting your time and energy into this. Retodon8 00:10, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the support, Retodon8. :) RandyWang 07:33, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright Violation

I have reported your unreasonable use of text from the Unreal Technology website. The text you quoted was neither brief, nor used for context or to illustrate a point: it was, in a word, plagiarised. As we've already discussed on another Talk page, it's not acceptable to simply copy huge slabs of text from another website rather than writing it for yourself. Furthermore, the information you posted was not relevant to the game, and should - if anything - have been posted on the Unreal Engine page. RandyWang 11:18, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't really give an @ss damn of what you do!

>x<ino 00:08, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Really? I hadn't noticed. RandyWang 12:50, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Protection

This is for the protection talk page

I have protected this page...to sort out this mess. Me & you hate reverting. Because we both know, we don't agree to our decision, and we think each other is wrong. The best thing to do is to sort this out!

You can start with the problem first!

>x<ino 00:56, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Only administrators can protect a page; slapping the protected tag on an article does nothing but confuse other editors, because it doesn't actually protect a page. It takes a special administrator button to actually perform the protect. So please don't just add protected tags to articles. · Katefan0(scribble)/poll 13:32, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Strange, it doesn't seem to actually be protected. Might this be because you skipped all Wikipedia's recommended steps for mediation? RandyWang 12:21, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
I rejected Xino's request becuse it looked to me like RandyWang's edits were superior, particularly if there are some copyvios being inserted here. Xino, I don't know if you're maybe not a native English speaker, but if you aren't then I would suggest that you perhaps learn to take copyedits a little more graciously. Remember that nobody has ownership over Wikipedia articles, and every time you click save there's a warning at the bottom that says If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it. · Katefan0(scribble)/poll 13:29, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for this, Katefan0 - I appreciate the support on this point. Unfortunately, Xino seems to have left Wikipedia entirely since this episode, which certainly wasn't what I intended. =\ RandyWang 11:48, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unreal Tournament 2004 relevance?

Why does this page have "Changes from Unreal Tournament 2004"? as if they are closely related? Any one who has played both game would know that they are almost complety different, unlike UT2003 and the first unreal championship. Maybe it should be changed to changes from Unreal Championship to UC2? That section should be deleted/changed.

Agreed. I changed the title section of that part, as the game really has nothing to do with UT2004, besides the use of some characters.68.82.141.57 05:32, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, thought I had this set to auto-login. That's me above.UncleThursday 05:33, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:UC2Screens0013.jpg

Image:UC2Screens0013.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:39, 5 June 2007 (UTC)