Talk:Unparished area

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how does this look as a format? i'm pondering recasting it in terms of ceremonial counties of England once i'm done (but then that does have the stockton problem) : perhaps better left as-is? the scheme ceremonial counties but with cleveland (and possibly avon) has certain merits but i don't want to do that. Morwen - Talk 15:14, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it makes sense to use the 1974 counties as that is where they were when they became "unparished". You could put a note under those ones that have changed counties (Avon, Humberside, Hereford & Worcester). You could just list the districts alphabetically, of course, and leave the counties out of it..Lozleader 20:52, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
But the districts have renamed and merged lots - i suppose using the current districts would make sense. Once I'm all done, I think maybe... Morwen - Talk 22:25, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] complete list

this was generated by taking the list of UDs and boroughs from List of rural and urban districts in England and deleting the entries from the list at successor parishes! note i am ignoring the 5 split ones (e.g Billinge Chapel End, Lakes)

That looks great. What about the county boroughs? Could they contain parishes? Warofdreams talk 04:58, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
no county boroughs initially contained parishes, and none of them became successor parishes either (at the time they were looking at a max population of about 25,000 for a parish it appears). i'll slowly work on turning the list above into tables as in the article. It's a shame the SIs to create new parishes aren't actually listed in the bound volumes : they are considered 'local' and only mentioned by name. Morwen - Talk 06:14, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category for unparished areas?

Is there a category for unparished areas, or if not, would it be useful to have one? DuncanHill 10:25, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] recent additions

the idea is to list unparished areas in 1974, and then parishes created in these since. it is not intended to list every single parish in urban boroughs: we have a perfectly good List of civil parishes in Greater Manchester which does this. adding stuff like Ringway makes a nonsense of the purposes of the list. 83.146.2.234 11:49, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I realise now the purpose of the Parished? column. It’s for places which have been parished since 1 April 1974, not actually created on or before that date. It seems there is some disambiguation with this and should be made more clearer. Perhaps the column title to be slightly altered to Parished since 1974?, and may be a List of civil parishes in .... link at the end of each county section. Cwb61 (talk) 15:18, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Inaccuracies

There is a civil parish of Congleton. I'm not sure when it was established (or re-established). see here, in the section named "Town Councils"). Unless I am mistaken about what the list is supposed to show, Congleton should be removed from it.

Additionally, Chester (the central city part) is unparished, bar an anomalous small area Chester Castle (parish) in the middle of it As far as I know, it remained unparished from at least 1974, and possibly prior to that. It should be added to the list. To verify its unparished nature is a bit more tricky and time-consuming, but it can be done if so desired. Let me know.  DDStretch  (talk) 12:23, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Apparently you are very mistaken.
The former county borough of Chester is listed as an 'unparished area' already.
The town of Congleton is not mentioned on the list at all - we note though that the entire Congleton (borough) has never contained any unparished area. 83.146.2.234 14:59, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
My apologies, I wasn't clear. I was referring to the list provided in this talk page, near the top of the page (section 1 at the moment). I agree that the article itself is correct. Sorry for the confusion.  DDStretch  (talk) 15:01, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
...but that was just my working list when I drew up this originally. may as well go to user subpages of working drafts and complain they're not up to date! 83.146.2.234 15:06, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Having examined it more closely, I believe that it in fact the list above there is correct with respect to Congleton. it seems the Congleton entry on the actual page has been altered to make it seem Congleton was never unparished : successor parish doesn't list it, and I'm pretty certain I got that 100% accurate, so it seems like an error by whoever was "helping" (like whoever has been messing up the Greater Manchester entries). I don't have access to the original sources to re-check though. I'm going to restore it to the way I had it originally here, unless someone can state definitely that this is wrong.
Ah, that would you you, then. The 'ince' stuff is nonsense there as well. 83.146.2.234 15:14, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure Congleton (former municipal borough) was originally unparished: the town council had been established by 1982, when The Local Authorities (Armorial Bearings) Order 1982 (1982 No. 708) transferred the borough arms over. Haven't been able to find out when the parish was established though. Lozleader 15:19, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Ok - my mistake. Thanks for sorting it out.  DDStretch  (talk) 15:22, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Congleton parish *might* date from 1975: there was a Borough of Congleton (Electoral Arrangements) Order 1975, quoted in this 1998 S.I. [1], which "abolishes the existing wards of the parish of Congleton and provides for the creation of six new wards". Dunno for sure. Lozleader 15:26, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Once again, my apologies for this mistake a while back. It would have helped to label the list at the top of this talk page as being a working list which is now out of date. As a further explanation can I make a suggestion which follows on from User:Cwb61's suggestion of more clear labelling of the article and the columns. That is what misled me. It might be an idea to rename the article to "Unparished areas at 1974 and subsequent changes" or some such thing.  DDStretch  (talk) 17:19, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Well, it did say "This is a list of unparished areas as they existed on April 1, 1974." : but perhaps that's not clear enough?
Oh - I agree. But the title of the article seems to suggest its unparished areas at any time, which is why I added them, having read the sentence previously and having had it slip my mind momentarily, as happens to everyone at some stage - no doubt such mistakes are made by even yourself at times. Please, I've apologized a number of times now, having admitted my mistake, no more twisting the knife, please.  DDStretch  (talk) 21:18, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] When Congleton Parish was established

Since there was some uncertainty about when Congleton civil parish was established, I emailed the Town Clerk about it (as I'd previously been in contact with him about other issues to do with the borough.) He emailed me back the Constitution of Congleton Town Council, which contains the information required. I include the relevant paragraphs below:

CONSTITUTION OF The District of Congleton was formed in April 1974 by the merger of 5 former urban and rural authorities, Alsager UDC, Congleton BC, Congleton RDC, Middlewich UDC and Sandbach UDC. The first election for the District Council being held in June 1973. The grant of a Charter was approved in May 1974 which gave the Council “Borough” status and authorised the office of Mayor as first citizen of the Borough. The former Congleton Borough Council, abolished on 31st March 1974, had been responsible for the geographical area of Congleton Town, currently covered by the Town Council. It was a non-county Borough Council which served as a principal authority within a two tier local government system, sharing duties with Cheshire County Council. Between 1974 and 1980, no formal “third tier” of local government was in place for the Town, however an informal body of former mayors lobbied for town council status. Congleton Town Council was inaugurated in 1980, and took up its responsibilities in April 1981, to provide the local council tier of local government for the town of Congleton, serving approximately 28,000 residents. It exists to serve as a vehicle of local opinion; to provide an effective link between the local residents and council tax payers with the Borough and County councils; to express local feelings and interests and to keep watch on all developments within the Town. It has the statutory responsibility to examine plans due for consideration by the Borough Council as planning authority. It also manages a range of local services and facilities.

So, I consider it certain that 1980 is the year in which it was established. I'm not sure how this might be cited if that is required.  DDStretch  (talk) 17:48, 21 June 2007 (UTC)