Talk:University of Western Australia

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Notable alumni - any reason that the list has been merged back into the article again, rather than just linking to List of The University of Western Australia people? Dannow 08:11, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but since both of the articles now exist it seems silly for the information to be duplicated. I've removed the bulk of the alumni and left only the most notable -- Serephine / talk - 04:12, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

A minor point perhaps, but certain to annoy some people from the University if they read this - the correct title of UWA is "The University of Western Australia" (see the Act), with a capital T. Some people can be quite picky about this. Any objection to my going through the article and fixing that up? Grahame

But I think English grammar dictates that we don't capitalise the "The"? enochlau (talk) 23:15, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I think "The University of Western Australia" should be treated as a proper noun, so capitalising the "The" is not ungrammatical, just like the style "The Hon." has "The" with the initial capital letter. Also, see [1], where this use has be applied. JSIN 07:59, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

okay, I'll go through and change it then Grahame

"Western Australia's first indigenous doctors and lawyers graduated from UWA in the 1980s, almost a century after the University was established. This contrasts unfavourably with other Commonwealth countries like Canada or New Zealand, which have been turning out indigenous graduates, including doctors, for over a century."

I am uncomfortable with this paragraph. It appears to be a rant about Australia-wide race relations more than something specific to UWA. UWA hasn't existed for a century yet, so how can it be expected to have been turning out indigenous doctors for that long? - Mark 05:04, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree, this paragraph should be removed. JSIN 08:00, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree too with that statement... I asked for citation and toned down the accusatory language, but still left the point there -- Serephine / talk - 14:38, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I disagree, instead of it being removed totally, rephrasing would serve better. Any suggestions?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Tarins01 (talk • contribs)

It has been re-written to include those points, so it hasn't been removed ☺ -- Serephine ♠ talk - 10:17, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aboriginal Students/Students

I was uncomfortable with the previous top-level section on Aboriginal students. To me, this is not and was never an important fact worth knowing about UWA - i.e. it is irrelevent (Life expectancy <20 years? Is this an article about UWA or what?) Has UWA actively discriminated against aboriginal students significantly moreso than the rest of 'European Australia', because that would be something worth knowing, or is the fact that few indigenous students attend UWA aptly enough explained by the sorry facts in this article. As such, I have incorporated an abbreviated, factual 2 sentences about the situation into a section retitled 'Students'. Why indigenous Australia is the way it is, is an interesting debate; however, tertiary under-representation is, in my opinion, a symptom and not a cause, and thus in this instance largely irrelevent. Ian peters 11:03, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi Ian I'm new to Wikipedia. I notice you have removed my remarks in relation to Aboriginal students. As an Aboriginal former student, I stand by my views. Wikipedia is not meant to be an advertisement for UWA or any other institution. This is an encyclopedia that tells it like it is and is open to dissent and diversity.

The stats speak for themselves - Aboriginal Australians (some of whom are cheerfully serving this country in Iraq, Afghanistan and East Timor right now) have a life expectancy 20 yrs below that of non-indigenous Australians. How wrong is that? I am telling it like it is and you keep excising my posts in a move that smacks of the book burnings of the 1930s! .

US, NZ & Canadian Universities do quite well in encouraging minorities to better improve their situation. More could be done here in WA. There is a health crisis up North. People, real human beings, are dying. From diabetes, from avoidable illnesses, from alcohol. Many die from despair - I assure you the suicide rate is very high. Comparatively, our Indigenous Aussies die a lot younger than Indigenous Inuits in Canada, native Americans or NZ Maoris.

That's a badge of shame we carry and we must put it right. As a repository of wisdom, our Universities have a lot to be ashamed for in letting this happen in the last century. It is undeniable that the University should have turned out more Aboriginal Doctors over the last century in order to help improve health outcomes for Aboriginal people. This has not happened. And its wrong.

I apologize for the tone of this epistle. If you are a fair-dinkum Aussie with a love for justice, you'd join us rather than relegate us to the scrap-heap of society. Take a stand. There can be no shame in righting a wrong. It takes a real man to do that. Won't you join us?

Kind regards

Paul Kickett-O'Connor "Seek Wisdom"

email: newhigh@hotmail.com

Hello Paul

I have moved your comment from my user page to this discussion page - I hope you do not mind. Your enthusiasm for contributing to Wikipedia is commendable and what you have contributed is without doubt well thought through and written. However, I would draw your attention to a couple of things that escaped me when I first started contributing to Wikipedia, and might be worth your attention now.

For instance, I object to your insertion of the phrase "as one would expect" when referring to the students of UWA being mostly people of European heritage from Perth - this is an opinion, rather than a fact - see Wikipedia:Guide to writing better articles#Avoid peacock and weasel terms. Also, the fact of life expectancy for indigenous Australians being 20 years less than other Australians, although sad and unfortunate, is classically "off topic" and not important to people wanting to know about UWA. It's for these reasons I have been excising your edits - I believe they're off topic, and until now added without comment or reason.

I'm not against 'you', or as you imply, indigenous Australians, in any sense. But what you have written implies a substantial, encyclopaedic amount of blame on the university for part of the woes in present indigenous Australia, particularly in regards to health. I disagree and believe you must provide more evidence towards this claim. I would instead suggest that unemployment holds far more relevance in many of the woes in present indigenous Australia (as it does with the woes in many societies with high unemployment). Why is indigenous Australia overwhelmed by unemployment? This is an interesting and heated topic, where your claims in regards to health and tertiary training may be more valid.

Out of interest, may I enquire what your thoughts are on the Federal Pastoral Industry Award of 1968?

Ian peters 14:52, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Ian

I attended a sad, pitiful auction, handled pro-bono by Sothebys, in Kintore (NT) where local Aboriginal people sold off artwork to fund a renal dialysis centre. It was reported widely overseas but did not get much coverage here.'Italic text More on that later.

Every Australian has a right to healthcare and to equal treatment. As a nation, we pride ourselves on this. As an institute of higher learning, UWA has a responsibility to the community to help improve health outcomes for all Western Australians, not merely those who require botox or mammary implants.

In reference to the Pastoralists case, I think I know what you are alluding to. Yes, a good work ethic is a positive thing. I hope you are openminded enough to accept that some of those poor fella stockmen in the above case served this country admirably overseas, laid their lives on the line even though they were not allowed to vote, only to receive below-award pay on their return. Pay that was less than that of their white counterparts who they had served alongside with in Singapore, Tobruk, New Guinea and elsewhere. Where's the justice or consistency in that? Then again, in those days, women got paid less for being women...! There you go.

Personally, I'm interested in Aboriginal health issues, I'm not interested in blame, even if I did have a swipe at the hallowed University.

You mentioned employment and its relationship to health outcomes. I'd challenge anyone to tell some old blackfella half blind with trachoma (a disease most commonly seen in the third world) that "its all your fault pal because you don't have a job."

Ian, It costs nothing to be compassionate, to feel for other peoples suffering. Not one cent need be expended. This is not about being a conservative or leftist. Its about having a heart.

I attended a sad, pitiful auction, handled pro-bono by Sothebys, in Kintore (NT) where local Aboriginal people sold off artwork to fund a renal dialysis centre. It was reported widely overseas but did not get much coverage here.

We are a great and compassionate nation with a sense of fair-go and justice for all. There's a crisis out there and I sought to highlight the fact that Universities, repositories of wisdom, learning and truth, have turned a blind eye to the suffering of Aboriginal people for close to a century. You excised my post. I respectfully ask that you reinstate it or, failing that, amend it to better reflect the common ground that I am sure we both share.

Paul Kickett-O'Connor newhigh@hotmail.com

If you are going to blame the university of Western Australia for the lack of Aboriginal doctors, surely you must place more blame on the secondary education system that does not produce Aboriginal students with the grades or drive to enter medical school? UWA allows students to enter medicine on the basis of test scores and an interview, but primarily the test scores. If there are no students with the appropriate grades why should they introduce a special cut-off score for a minority group? The finger needs to be pointed at high schools, and even primary schools, for not getting enough Aboriginal kids up to the standard to get in on their own merit, without special treatment.

Also, I agree that the amount of content on this issue in the article was both excessive and biased. May I suggest that if you wish to include it at Wikipedia an article on "the education of Aboriginals in WA" or similar might be more appropriate. Sparkleyone 00:55, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

i don't think that the unversity should be regarded as ranking highly on an international scale. ranked moderately might be a better phrase. but a rank that is not in the top 50, should not be considered high. it gives a false sense of prestige which is unfortunately not correct.

[edit] Citation Lost

We lost the citation site http://www.biospace.com/company_profile.cfm?CompanyID=825320. Leads no where probaby fixable. The Fact was "The University has over 80 research centres, including the Crime Research Centre, the Centre for Forensic Science, the Centre for Water Research and the Centre for Oil and Gas Engineering." I know this to be true personally so should be an easy find, but I don't feel like it. Repeat biospace has probaby just been restructured.--AresAndEnyo (talk) 10:50, 26 January 2008 (UTC)