Talk:University of Tennessee Forensic Anthropology Facility

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This article is currently or was the subject of an 2008-03-21 educational assignment. Further details are available here.
Peer review University of Tennessee Forensic Anthropology Facility has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.
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A fact from University of Tennessee Forensic Anthropology Facility appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 28 March 2008.
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If you have a relevant picture you can share while obeying copyright laws, please do so! ~ Leila Weilingz (talk) 01:11, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Please tag relevant topics within Wikipedia. Click here if you do not know how to do this. Noromaru (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 18:43, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the comment. Wikipedia links have been added. ~ Leila Weilingz (talk) 22:12, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

I went through our article and tagged some names/organizations for Wikipedia links. Thanks. -Sara Laylou11 (talk) 19:57, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Comments

This is a very interesting and informative article. The history of the body farm is something that people should learn to see as an informative and scientific studying ground, not a cruel and distasteful study. Crosenbalm (talk) 21:26, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Wow, this article was very interesting. I had no idea this "body farm" existed or that something like this was even legal. It's kind of creepy though, a body farm behind a university. -Lauren —Preceding unsigned comment added by Runwild2006 (talk • contribs) 03:35, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

this article is very interesting, it illustrates some really good points. when this was a seperate article it really wasn't sufficient, the merging of this article makes this much more reputable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dansha4521f (talk • contribs) 22:24, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Amazing article, very informative and exciting to read. You guys found a great topic and the merge looks great, the article overall flows very nicely from one section to the next. Good luck! Kayla foster (talk) 03:09, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback,we really appreciate your positive comments since my group members and I have worked hard to make this a good article. Thanks again. JaredJcdvipertx2000 (talk) 20:30, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

This is a great article!!! It definetly caught my attention by just reading the title and then upon reading the article I couldn't stop! I had no idea that anything like this existed so it was very entertaining to broaden my horizons! Great job on doing alot of research and informing the public of underviewed facilities! --Cal101387 (talk) 06:18, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Some things you might want to consider revising: You might want to reword the “2.5 acres” and “razor wire” bit either in the intro or under the “Present” heading to avoid redundancy. Also, as I was reading through the article I kept thinking “where do they get these bodies?” You mention that the first body was donated, but for clarity’s you might want to specify that the farm relies on donation toward the beginning of the article. I really like your topic by the way. Though this body farm has proven itself as an asset to forensic ento, the majority of people probably don’t realize it exists. Props for being unusual! Wudntulyk2no (talk) 00:20, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

You seem to repeat some of your information throughout the paragraphs. Also some of your sentences have grammatical errors such as the noun and verb don't agree and there are some run-on sentences. Overall though the article is good. Horsenerd09 (talk) 05:06, 16 April 2008 (UTC)horsenerd09

Extreemly informative and just a tad twisted, perfect! :) horrific pictures would either gross out people and not have them read the article or really add to the it. its up to ya'll. I think it would be a great improvement. I never knew till now that places like this existed outside of movies, and CSI shows. maybe some research can be done about certian religious views and how they react (if at all) to this "body farm". Thanks and Gig 'Em (DivoTheAggie (talk) 21:46, 17 April 2008 (UTC))

Hello. I was thinking that maybe you should link "digestive enzymes" to another article on Wikipedia. Just if someone didn't know too much about what it really means, or just want to know more information on it.Sabm05mval05 (talk) 21:52, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I found this article very intriguing!! I had no idea anything like this even existed. The title caught my attention and I was hooked throughout the entire article. Your research was thorough and the article really turned out great! --Dmhenry1216 (talk) 00:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

The topic that y'all chose really grabbed my attention. I didn't even know that there was such a thing as a Body Farm before. The article was very informative. After reading it, I came up with a few suggestions. At the end of the 'Beginning' subsection under History, it is mentioned that the first body Bass examined as Tennessee's forensic anthropologist was one that was part of a real crime scene investigation. It would be good to include what Bass determined after examining the body and what he drew from the experience. Under the 'Arson and entomology' section, I think that the wording of "This observation had significant evidence:" should be changed to "This observation gave significant evidence that," or something along those lines. The wording is a little confusing as it stands now. Also, under the 'Proving innocence' section, the sentence describing how Marks determined PMI is difficult to follow and may be easier to read and comprehend if broken down. Under 'The Big Bopper' section, who is Jefferson? I thought the person in question was J.P Richardson, Jr. Is this the person that should have been in place of Jefferson? Also, I think the first paragraph under the 'Program advocates' section should be moved under the 'Collaboration in publishing' subheading. I think that this would improve the flow of the article. Hope these suggestions are helpful. Good luck! --Kmcneese (talk) 03:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for you comments! I made appropriate changes to what I felt fit. Thanks again! Laylou11 (talk) 14:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I haven't had the chance to read anything about the body farm and your article has peaked my interest. I think it was well written and I like how you outlined specific cases with two of the cases actually including information about the benefits of entomology and how it can be used as a tool. I do think that maybe adding a picture of the outside of the Body Farm might add a little to the article.--Raebeam (talk) 11:16, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, but again we cannot use pictures due to copyright laws. Laylou11 (talk) 14:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I think your paper was very informative and interesting but I the only thing I would have added in some nice pictures to help sell your paper more, especially in the paragraph about the new advancement in forensic entomology .165.91.174.157 (talk) 14:39, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

If you have specific suggestions regarding imagery to use, that would be appreciated. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 19:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wiki formatting and other such

Greetings folks, after giving the article a brief read, it looks pretty good! If I may, I have a couple of questions pertaining to what you are doing:

  1. I understand the assignment is due to finish on May 2, 2008. Given the nature of Wikipedia, it will be unlikely that the articles will remain formatted as they currently are (term paper format). To that end, does your professor want the articles formatted in this specific format, or is it being left to the students how each article appears (and that the physical paper being turned in is where actual formatting comes into play)?
  2. What actually brought me here was the link added to University of Tennessee; the title confused me a bit, made me think someone had linked to a book or something. If the title must be as it currently is, that's fine for now, but I would propose it be renamed simply to the sobriquet "Body Farm" (or similar, since there is an article currently using that title), or to something more precise like "University of Tennessee Forensic Anthropology Facility" or "...Research Facility". Do you know what the Facility's actual title is? I've never seen it referred to as "The Original Body Farm" other than to differentiate it from other research 'farms'. Okay, so reading the article again answered that question, but the first part still stands...does your professor want the article titles to stay as they are?

Good luck in your continued activities. If any of you need help with the article or with Wikipedia as a whole, please feel free to ask at User talk:Huntster. Cheers! — Huntster (t • @ • c) 03:22, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Like Huntster, I came here because of the link in University of Tennessee. I'm also confused about the title; if anything, I would call it "University of Tennessee Body Farm" ("The Original" sounds like a commercial product).
I hope the professor understands that Wikipedia's Manual of Style should be followed in Wikipedia articles, both for writing style and formatting. If this is going to be linked from other articles (displacing the old link to Body farm), Wikipedians are not going to wait patiently for it to be improved.
One serious concern I had in reading the article is with the statement that Jon Jefferson was one of the founders of the facility. That's a serious misrepresentation. Jefferson is a writer, not a forensic scientist. His collaboration with Bass has been in writing books, not in conducting research.
--Orlady (talk) 04:32, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Orlady, thank you for bringing attention to that. Changes have been made. ~ Leila Weilingz (talk) 05:13, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Turns out that University of Tennessee Forensic Anthropology Facility already links to the generic Body farm article, so it is a simple matter of getting an Admin to move this article to that title, if desired. For the time being, I'm redirecting that link here. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 05:17, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Huntster, thank you for redirecting that link. Regarding your first question, part of our grade is integrating comments we receive on our talk page with our article. When our project is due, we turn in the first "draft" we put up on wikipedia and also turn in the final draft that includes changes based on the comments we receive. The title of our article is our choosing and can be changed. You can find out more about our project at Wikipedia:School and university projects/ENTO 431 ~ Leila 75.111.129.68 (talk) 05:49, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Huntster and Orlady, We had some rules on the format of our paper; we needed introduction and conclusion paragraphs that succinctly introduced/summarized the article, and we needed to write it with "encyclopedia-type writing." None of my group knew about the Wikipedia's manual of style; I'll ask my professor exactly what to do next. Regarding the title we selected, we wanted to write an article about the revolutionary work that Bill Bass began with this body farm. This body farm was the first of its kind, producing much needed information to help determine post mortem interval, etc. We wanted to reflect this inventiveness in its title. I will certainly discuss this with my group members, however I think it is important to distinguish this body farm from the others in some way. Do you have any other suggestion or comment? ~ Leila Weilingz (talk) 05:26, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Your work, and that of your classmates, is most appreciated! All too often new articles are created comprised of nothing but a sentence or two. However, I can guarantee that the title will not stay as it is for very long, since it kind of goes against Wikipedia guidelines for more precise technical naming or "most commonly known as" naming, rather than creative naming (such incessant modifications are just how things go around here). I would like to see the writers guide which direction such a title change will take, rather than just leaving it in the hands of others. Consider also that the first line of the article can pay tribute to its widely known nickname, and like most Wiki articles, might take the following form:
The University of Tennessee Forensic Anthropology Facility, better known by the nickname The Body Farm, was founded in 1971 by Dr. William M. Bass as a research facility for studying the decomposition of human remains. ....
Speaking to your group, and with your professor's approval of course, I would like for you to consider working on a new layout for the article: rather than appearing in the form of a research paper, try and mold it to appear as an encyclopaedic entry. By all means, there is nothing wrong with how research papers are written, it just isn't how Wikipedia entries are designed. I don't know if you've taken this step yet, but consider looking at how some of our featured articles are laid out...getting this article to featured status is certainly within your means, plus there are those fifty extra credit points to go for ;) Please do invite your professor to stop by this page and comment...I'm watching it for updates and Orlady likely is as well. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 05:57, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Huntster, that is a great suggestion! I would like to run it by my other group members before I make the change. Look for the title change within the next day. Thank you for monitoring the growth of this page :) ~ Leila Weilingz (talk) 06:01, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you all for your comments in helping us improve this page! With your help we can revise the article to make it sound more "encyclopaedic". As college students, we have been used to writing research papers and essays but not so much encyclopedia articles. Therefore, we really appreciate the help you can put into making this a better article. We will take all of your comments seriously and approach them with great thought. Thanks! Laylou11 (talk) 13:20, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Check out Wikipedia:Lead section regarding the appropriate content and style for the beginning of a Wikipedia article. --Orlady (talk) 14:03, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

You may want to condense your references so that they are each only listed one time. Alexxmacc (talk) 16:25, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for recognizing this, my group members and I will discuss this issue and if a change needs to be made we will make it happen.Jcdvipertx2000 (talk) 17:00, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Errmm -- Removing the page numbers from references actually was a step backwards. If a piece of information can be sourced to a particular page in a book, it's preferable to cite the specific page (or range of pages). See WP:CITE#HOW for Wikipedia protocol on reference citations, particularly WP:CITE#FULL. (Hint: The easiest way to re-add the removed citations is to "undo" the edit.) --Orlady (talk) 23:19, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Moving the page

Leila, all you have to do is click the "Move" button at the top of the page. If you are trying to move it to an existing redirect, sometimes it will not allow it, and you will have to get an Admin to help you. Just give it a try, and if it fails, leave a message here and I'll wrangle up an admin to help out. Also, someone mentioned above that the references need to be formatted...I'm working on this now and will implement if you would like. Aside from vandalism fighting, that's my main thing on the site. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 21:59, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Huntster, I couldn't move the page because the link for University of Tennessee Forensic Anthropology Facility redirects to this page. Maybe if the redirection was removed, I could move it. Could you please remove the redirection? Also, if you don't mind, we'd love to have your help with the references. This is my first time posting/editing on Wikipedia, and I really like the collaborative vibe! Thank you again! ~ Leila Weilingz (talk) 02:46, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Orlady, thank you for that link and hint. We appreciate all of your comments. Huntster has offered to help with the references.

Thank you all for helping us make this article bigger and better! ~ Leila Weilingz (talk) 02:50, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I'll have an admin move this page to that location as soon as I can, and will post up the refs soon (currently at work, and *must* sleep once I get home!). — Huntster (t • @ • c) 12:04, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
And move complete. Thanks to User:Anthony Appleyard for the assistance. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 14:32, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much for moving our page! We appreciate the help. Laylou11 (talk) 16:21, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Huntster! ~ Leila —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.91.80.80 (talk) 00:06, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Banners

Huntster, Orlady, or a veteran Wikipedian: what do those banners mean at the top of the page? The ones for WikiTennessee and Anthropology. Should we join those? ~ Leila Weilingz (talk) 04:49, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Leila, no, you don't have to join anything unless you specifically want to. Those banners are representative of WikiProjects, or collectives of editors who focus on specific sections of the website. In particular, this article would fall under the eyes of WP Tennessee and WP Anthropology. I also considered adding Law Enforcement, but ultimately considered that it was tangential to the full scope here...I think Anthro is enough, though it may be added in the future by someone else if they desire. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 18:42, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
So do we actually have to do anything? Or do the banners mean we are already a part of the WikiProject? Weilingz (talk) 02:55, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
No, you don't have to do anything; simply placing the banners on a page adds that article to the WikiProject. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 01:22, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References

Thank you Orlady. I'm going to go ahead and re-add the page numbers tonight when I can get a hold of them again. So it isn't necessary, then, to "condense" our references since they will specifically list page numbers? Laylou11 (talk) 19:48, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

The page numbers are all preserved in the article history. (Wikipedia doesn't throw much of anything away.) You can go back to an edit page for a version of the article that had page numbers and copy the reference citations into the current version of the article. As for condensing references, if you cite the same identical source more than once, you can avoid replicating the reference citation by giving the reference a shorthand name and citing only its name in subsequent callouts to the reference. For example, List of city nicknames in Texas has multiple citations to a few specific references. Look in the list of references to see how they appear. The first citation to a particular reference gives full citation details and the shorthand name for the reference (for example, <ref name=NYT1993>[http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=travel&res=9F0CE6DC1430F931A2575AC0A965958260 The World Capital of Whatever], ''[[The New York Times]]'' by Harold Faber, [[September 12]], [[1993]].</ref>) and subsequent citations just give the shorthand name in the following format: <ref name=NYT1993/>. To do that, the page numbers would need to be the same. --Orlady (talk) 04:08, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Another reference issue: Wikipedia can't cite itself as a source. I remove the following reference, which was cited to support the idea that this facility is called "The Body Farm"; it includes a good YouTube video, but the rest of the content is from Wikipedia:

<ref name="np-bfab">{{cite web |url=http://www.nowpublic.com/environment/body-farm-and-beyond |title=The Body Farm and Beyond |work=NowPublic.com |date=2008-02-13 |accessdate=2008-03-27}}</ref>

--Orlady (talk) 01:11, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Orlady. I noticed that we needed to cite a reference for that part so I picked a website. I did not even notice that it was an article simply taken from Wiki. Thanks for all of your help. Laylou11 (talk) 01:15, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, obviously the references have been taken care of, plus some cleanup. As for the above bit, I too wasn't paying attention to the textual content...I figured it was the video being referenced. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 01:22, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

It is obvious that a lot of work and research was put into this article. You may want to organize your references so that you don't list the same source twice.Hurricane979 (talk) 17:07, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

What exactly are you referring to? I removed all the replication yesterday, so I'm not sure what this means. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 17:52, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Copyediting

Not wanting to reduce the educational value of this assignment, I am resisting the urge to reduce wordiness in this article, which is part of copyediting at Wikipedia. I see many opportunities to eliminate excessive verbosity in this article, including but not limited to "for confidentiality purposes" (wouldn't "for confidentiality" be sufficient?), "the throes of the death penalty" (shorten to "the death penalty"), "has spread across international boundaries" (would "has spread internationally" work as well?), and "that met a fatal end" (why not "who died"?). Also, note that euphemisms such as "passing" do not promote clarity, particularly in an article about death (please consider how to reword "willing to donate their bodies after passing to aid this research"). --Orlady (talk) 18:06, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Orlady, I'll e-mail my group members to revise their sections to reduce wordiness and give our intro as an example. I'll tell them to do so by Tuesday. Weilingz (talk) 22:32, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Orlady, feel free to make any changes you'd like. Our teacher knows that Wikipedians will be revising the articles, and one of the goals of the assignment is to open our eyes to the collaborative vibe of this site. Weilingz (talk) 22:37, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! I went ahead and made some minor changes in my section to try and take some "uneccessary" adjectives out. Laylou11 (talk) 23:33, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

My section (first section) is done too. Did I leave behind any wordiness? Thanks Weilingz (talk) 02:10, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] DYK?

BTW, if you weren't already aware, the article has been featured on the main page in the "Did You Know?" section, which features tidbits from newly created articles. Thanks to User:PFHLai for the nomination. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 23:33, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the nomination PFHLai! I had no idea the "DYK" could be nominated to appear there. I thought it was a random pick. We really appreciate the nomination though! Laylou11 (talk) 23:42, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome. Thank you and you classmates for the new article. Feel free to self-nominate your next creation (here). Cheers! --PFHLai (talk) 14:35, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Peer Review

I would have to say that this is the most interesting article I have come across thus far. The subject matter is very interesting -- like many of the other people that have given you feedback, I had no idea this even existed. The only addition I would make would be to add pictures. I'm not sure what wikipedia's rules are on grotesque photos, etc. or if there even are any photos that are publicly released of the body farm, but if there are I think those would add to people's curosity about the article. If there aren't photos of the actual body farm, I would still consider putting up a picture of the university where it was started, and maybe even some of the advocates research.

Yes we have looked for pictures, but all the pictures of this body farm are copyrighted, and owners of the pictures never responded when we requested permission to post the pictures. A picture of the university is a good idea - do you know of anywhere we could get a picture that isn't copyrighted? Weilingz (talk) 22:29, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Actually, and I can't believe I didn't think of this before, but I have a cousin who attends UTK. I'll try and see if she'd be willing to take a picture of the main entrance into the compound, and anything else of interest in the area. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 01:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Wow, thank you Hunster! We would really appreciate if you would be able to help us with that. Thanks so much. Laylou11 (talk) 03:38, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

This is a very well written article. I also found it to be a very interesting topic and would like to hear more about it. The only thing I saw that could be improved upon was "wikifying" the article more. Basically there are a few areas that could use some links, especially the first two sections. cawinkler —Preceding comment was added at 02:51, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Cawinkler, do you mean Wikipedia internal links? We've been trying to "wikify" our article and will continue to work on it until the due date (this Friday). thanks for the comment! Weilingz (talk) 03:08, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

This is a well written article, I really enjoyed reading it. I especially enjoyed the section on the different cases. How many bodies are currently being researched on the body farm? Pns2010 (talk) 03:30, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually you can donate your body to the research facility. They have forms available online to sign up- the Body Farm gets 30-50 donated bodies per year. Laylou11 (talk) 17:28, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Great article! Such an interesting topic. Informative and well written. Too bad you are having trouble getting pictures, that would really be awesome. Galaga180 (talk) 18:17, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Very interesting article. I've never heard of the body farm before and I really enjoyed reading this. There were some minor spelling and grammatical errors that I've changed, but you may want to read through your article again. I think there were a lot of mixed tense usage. Pictures would be really cool, but I understand that it's basically impossible to find those. Other than that, great job on the article. Best js 2007 (talk) 19:11, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I really enjoyed reading this article, and I am actually very impressed with how well the article flowed. All the paragraphs had relevance to the topic, and I had no problem reading it all the way through. The Body Farm video in your references was also very informative. I would have liked to have seen a section explaining forensic anthropology, and maybe getting into the osteological techniques that are also involved, but that may have blown you guys off topic. I'm an anthropology major, so that might just be my biased opinion. Also, a picture of some kind would have made the article more appealing, since not many individuals are familiar with the body farm. I understand that you can't exactly get a picture of a rotting corpse, but you could get creative and find a picture of a skeleton, or anything that may relate to your topic. Good job overall! Laadame (talk) 15:10, 17 April 2008 (UTC)]

Thank you all for your comments! We regret the fact that we have been unable to obtain a picture. However, since it is an actual facility, that makes it harder to legally use a picture while obeying copyright laws. Any ideas are appreciated though! Laylou11 (talk) 16:15, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Regarding the image, I'm still waiting to hear back from my cousin. I've found some high altitude aerial photos of the site, and I'm not sure there is going to be much of anything worth photographing, but we'll see. In any case, I want to use the image from this article if the structure no longer exists, and if it does, that will be the target of the photo. If it is no longer standing, then including it in the article will not violate fair-use (being historical and no longer freely obtainable). Time will tell. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 19:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Donation requirements

I was interested in what requirements were needed to donate a body. I added what I found into your article. Hope this is helpful. I enjoyed this article, Karmijo37, April 15th, 2008

thanks Karmijo37! Do you have any references for this information that we can cite? Weilingz (talk) 03:08, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for the addition to the article! I added a citation to it from the actual facility's website. Laylou11 (talk) 18:01, 16 April 2008 (UTC)