Talk:University of St Andrews

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Contents

[edit] Colours

The Bute colours on the main page are wrong. It's dark red, not orange. Has anyone seen anyone wearing orange scarves? No. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.99.105.126 (talk) 10:25, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

That is a red, not an orange. Are you saying it should be a darkened red, more akin to the red in the St Leonard's scarf? --Breadandcheese (talk) 11:38, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Miscellaneous

Why do people constantly delete the Saint from the newspapers section? There is no argument that it is the biggest and most widely read newspaper in the entire town, as well as the longest-lasting and best-known. Opinions of its quality are often part of St Andrews politics, and as such have no place her on Wikipedia. I will rewrite the Saint section, try to be NPOV, and anyone who deletes or vandalises it is being petty, partisan, and also not following Wikipedia guidelines.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.251.224.236 (talk • contribs)

So what about the other section of the below question? The Liberty Club? You might as well have a long section on the Real Ale Society or the James Bond Club. How about a section about the debating society, the oldest one in the world (I believe) and certainly something worth mentioning.

Why are The Mitre and The Liberty Club given sections over longer-established and better-known entites which are completely ignored?

Agree. These are largely vanity posts and should be deleted or hived off into separate pages. --Iceaxejuggler 15:24, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Updated: I've reorganized these sections into one and hived off the Library club into its own page. There was some interesting info there and I didn't want it lost, but felt it was vanity in place. Also updated some of the outdated info. If anyone wants to add their own socs. this might be the way to do it. Or just link to a central uni page if there's one up-to-date? I think the new Student Union site has such a page. Cheers. --Inexplicable

Request: If anyone here is a current student and lives closer to town (not out at DRH like me) could you get a picture of the classics building and replace the photo on the page for the town of St. Andrews. The photo of the classics building on that page was taken while the building had the huge red splotch on it. That stupid ugly splotch is finally gone, so it would be great if we could stop using that old photo. --||bass 16:39, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

I changed the phrase "strong ties with America" to "strong ties with the United States". The link pointed to the United States anyway. It's probably not a very well known fact, but there are small groups of people in North America (mostly in Mexico) that dislike the use of the word "America" to refer to only the United States and not the continent as a whole. --||bass 06:31, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)


What should replace them? Student newspapers don't play that much of a role up here (The Mitre's circulation is swamped by The Saint's and to be honest most people don't read either), although a section on student socs in general could be quite interesting. --md25

OK, it seems there's a lot of bickering about newspapers here. Wouldn't it be better just to combine all three of them into one "Student Newspapers" section? --md25

Agreed. --Iceaxejuggler 23:15, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I just collected all the newspapers into one group there; I put The Mitre first because M comes before S in the alphabet and if I didn't someone else would anyway. --md25

Why is the university motto in latin? I thought it was in Greek?


I'm awful using Wikipedia, but someone should add that St Andrews was just ranked 5th in the UK overall by the Times Good University Guide 2008. The Guardian and Times now both put it in the top 5, validating its incredible surge in recent years and establishing it as one of the pre eminent institutions of higher learning in the world.

[edit] Rents, halls of residence

Quote: "Today the university is growing rapidly and in sound financial health, perhaps helped by what some students have argued are the highest hall of residence rents in the UK outside of London."

???

When I was at St. Andrews (1995-1998), it was said to have the cheapest university-owned accommodation in the UK (e.g.: under £1000 a year for self-catering). Has this changed significantly? 217.155.20.163 00:24, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Yeah, the rents are ridiculous now, something like £3k a year for catered. Also the Uni has a £30m liability which they're selling Hamilton Hall off for to pay.

Rent's are bad and getting worse. I paid £130 a week for a studio flat in DRH. Rates aren't much better for the regular rooms either. Prices are going to be even higher next year (2005-2006) since the construction at DRH will be essentially finished at that point. --||bass 16:37, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

Interesting claim. Edinburgh University Students' Association at the end of last semester was claiming that Edinburgh actually have the highest in the UK (including London). I've changed the line to read one of the. -- KTC 20:08, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
Did they say what their rates were? --||bass 23:06, May 4, 2005 (UTC)
Well, in this case, it's not they as I'm a student there and was until the election at the end of last semester an elected rep. on SRC. So I better get all this right else the President might bite my head off. ;-D
Okay, I couldn't actually remember whether the claim was the proposed rate increase at the end of last semester by Accommodation Services would have made our first year accom. on average the most expensive, or it is anyway. (def. one of the highest anyhow like St. And.) Just gone on A.S. website and it seems to me, the claim was that the orginial proposed increase would have made us the most expensive. (It was on average 9.7%, managed to get self-catered and non-en-suite catered increase down to around 3.8%, catered en-suite not sure.)
On comparing the 2 university's prices on their website for next year, Ed salf-catered, Ed catered, St. And, it seems Ed. in general have slightly more expensive but at the top end St. And have more expensive. So, all in all, it's just another play on word and statistics to get an reaction that benfits the speaker (i.e. reduce rent increase), typical politics! <_< -- KTC 02:06, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
Those DRA rates are slightly misleading... I paid more then that this past year, and rates are going UP... Those rates are only for the singles that share a kitchen with 4 other singles. The ones that have the private kitchens, like mine, cost closer to £4000 for the year.
Well, if you're going to want a private kitchen, what else was you expecting?? :-P My previous comment suggested that there's a few accom. that's available at St And. that's not at Edi. Those that's are similiar enough to be comparable seems to suggest Edi is slightly more expensive. Either way tho., it's just stupid how expensive it is at both places! -- KTC 12:06, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
I think the DRA rates are extortion. I'm paying FAR less next year for a lovely, fully furnished place smack-bang in the middle of town, not a brisk 25 minute walk to lectures/shops/everything execpt the gym. Add the shoddy bus 'service' and I can't wait to get out. St Andrews uni needs to stop viewing students as a quick way out of their 30 odd million of debt.
The rates are doubly extortionate right now considering the cut-back bus schedule (due to road work on the most important roundabout in town.) For less then what I'm paying this year (£4000 as I mentioned earlier), I could (assuming 1 flatmate) get a flat on -SOUTH STREET-. How does that make any sence? --||bass 03:09, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] When was the university founded?

So the first line of this page says "founded between 1410 and 1413", and the history section says "founded 1410", and the infobox says "Established 1413". Is there some doubt as to the exact year? If so it should be mentioned in the History section. Also Ancient university says founded 1411, whereas Ancient universities of Scotland says founded 1413. I notice the university's history page says "Founded in 1413" [1] -- Vclaw 11:27, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

There are differing views on the date of founding as Scotland, along with the Anti-Pope at the time, were using the older Julian Calendar, which placed them at a slightly different year to everyone else. It was my understanding it was founded 1411 on the new calendar and 1410 on the old calendar. Davidkinnen 16:03, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
There is also debate as to what actually constitutes the founding of the university (i.e. when it reached a level suitable to be called a uni, when the pope was asked to ratify, when the pope ratified it, when that ratification reached the univeristy...) Things didn't go so fast in the beginning of the 15th century... I feel we should stick to what the university itself claims. Usrnme h8er 15:40, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
The University's advice to people asking for a date for the foundation university is (roughly) to pick one at random between 1410 and 1413. Fluoronaut 14:34, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

There were scholars teaching and learning at St Andrews well before 1411. The foundation is just the formal recognition as a University by the popes in Rome and Avignon. Graemedavis 21:39, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Well here's the test - when is the University celebrating its 600th anniversary? Timrollpickering 20:23, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
From 2010 to 2013, kind of like a rolling anniversary. But the celebrations kick off in 2010 with quite an opening. The final celebrations are said to be something too. Back to square one. M0RHI | Talk to me 00:56, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Raisin Weekend

I noticed that 'academic incest' has a red link to Raisin Weekend. Does anyone feel like filling that page? -Icecradle 18:13, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ancient universities of Scotland

Why has the infobox for the ancient universities of Scotland been deleted? Benson85 20:46, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

With regards to St Andrews fellow Scottish Universities, I'm surprised no one had changed the "The University is widely regarded as the best in Scotland" statement until now. It came up third in the most recent survey. Iowasf 04:02, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Good point! We need to ensure NPOV too - that entire paragraph looked a bit like University propaganda, and the intact bits still do (with no references, either). However, I might add that the bit you have changed looks almost like it might fail NPOV the other way... - rather than "fall behind", one could just use "after" (with suitable rewording). Rlfb 13:56, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
On a wider point there needs to be a broader convention about which university rankings to include in articles. Currently it seems most pages are listing primarily those that show the institution at its best (or worst in a few cases). See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Universities#University ratings for a discussion that so far has refused to take off. Timrollpickering 14:32, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

That was a fair point, Rlfb, I changed it according to your suggestion. With regards to which ranking systems should be used, the time is the major one, certainly in britain, so I don't see any problem with adding that. I will cite my claim as soon as I find the list online, and I'm also going to have a look at the discussion Tim mentioned. Iowasf 00:04, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, some discussion has now taken place - there are some interesting links there too, which should show you where to find the THES world rankings (there is a link to it on League tables of British universities). Rlfb 00:07, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

The World Rankings are horrendously flawed, putting universities like the University of Massachusetts (a middle of the road public university in the U.S.) up there with the elite. Going through the list one can find oneself scratching his head as some unfamiliar or unexpected names show up with the Ivy's and other esteemed international institutions. A horrible idea to include those rankings in this article - the Times and Guardian should be used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.70.248.208 (talk) 20:05, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "St Andrews University" in article titles

A lot of the articles in Category:University of St Andrews are using "St Andrews University" in the article title even when the article itself uses "University of St Andrews" (e.g. History of St Andrews University).

I'm inclined to move almost everything to a "University of St Andrews" form in two days time except where individual moves are objected to or where it's clear that "St Andrews University" is the form used in the formal title/current branding of the article's subject.

Articles identified include:

Also the following doesn't use "University" at all in the title:

Which of these are currently at the correct location? Timrollpickering 20:11, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The current stylistical format is University of St Andrews, and thus I see this as OK. Regarding the Independent Student Groups in St Andrews, I consider this as fine. By virtue of the fact they are independent, they are not connected to the University. The only thing they have in common is that all (or most) members of the group are also members of the University. M0RHI | Talk to me 16:58, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Okay I've left that one where it is, although it could use some modification to make it clear that it means St Andrews the town rather than the university. Timrollpickering 00:41, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scarf colours

I thought that any student of the University was entitled to wear the the blue and white scarf - not just students of the United College? Pgg7 11:31, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

You seem to be correct [2] [3]. I have reverted. — mholland 12:30, 6 April 2007 (UTC)



I was under the impression that the blue and white scarf was for members of the United College but I have no source. I concede I may be wrong on this, however! -devilnomore

[edit] External links and "spam"

I have restored some of the external links which were deleted apparently according to WP:EL#Links normally to be avoided. Among websites that had been removed included the University's official web site and the union website, but yet a site selling university scarves was allowed to stay. Rlfb 09:51, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm adding back the Student Radio and newspaper sites. These are legitimate links for anyone wishing to find out more about the university.--Inexplicable 15:37, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Latin name

The full and formal Latin name of the University is "Universitas Sancti Andreae apud Scotus" (Univ. of St Andrews amongst the Scots) - which you will find on formal documents etc, and was the form used on degree certificates not that long ago (I'd assume it hasn't changed). Any objections to an alteration to reflect this?--Breadandcheese 04:07, 28 September 2007 (UTC) (signed very belatedly)

[edit] Image - Quad

I think a photograph of St Sal's quad would greatly improve this article. Certainly more worthy of inclusion than a photo of the R&A and a former hall of residence - neither of which have anything to do with the subject at hand. --Breadandcheese 17:58, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

What about this one? There are a few other appropriately-licensed photos on Flickr, but this one is a bit small and this one is a bit silly. Or anything you like from the Geograph project (search grid ref). — mholland (talk) 19:11, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Project

Hello my name is Andrea, im a student from Mexico city. I was wondering if you could give a little more information about St Andrew´s university. My major is International Business.I would like to go to an university abroad to study. Thank you. I will really appreciate your help.Blueapple23 23:31, 16 September 2007 (UTC)Blueapple23

Hi there. Thanks for reading this article. Unfortunately, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and we can't offer anything further by way of advice. The University's official website carries a page for international student admission, at http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/admissions/int/. If you find there's anything missing from this article, feel free to add it. — mholland (talk) 11:13, 17 September 2007 (UTC)