Talk:University of Ottawa

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University of Ottawa was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

^{Reviewed version: No date specified. To provide a date use: {{FailedGA|insert date in any format here}}}

Archives:

See previous discussion at /Archive1... though I can't imagine why you would. -Joshuapaquin 22:55, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] French and English

Shouldn't the words French and English be capitalised?

Rule 13. Capitalize words derived from proper nouns.

 Example  I must take English and math.

English is capitalized because it comes from the proper noun England but math does not come from mathland. From http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/capital.asp Tidied up.

[edit] Userbox Template

I've made an userbox for University of Ottawa students, staff, faculty and alumni:

UO	This user has an affiliation with the University of Ottawa.

To use it, put {{user uottawa}} into your User page. ----PCStuff 04:18, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Power Plant

The power plant is not there to provide backup power in case of failure during exams... It is a Combined Heat Power (CHP) System, which uses waste energy from the generation process to heat buildings (thus is more efficient that buying energy off the grid and is used ALL the time). I can't find a "source" for this however, so I thought I'd note it here. Logically they wouldn't spend 4.5 million dollars for a backup power system though.

Is there a source indicating that the power plant is used for power backup during exams? I suspect this is an assumption. I recommend removing that part, unless a source can be found. My personal understanding is that it is used as an electricity supplement, with the main usage being heating/cooling of buildings around campus via the water pipes (which I can't source and so would not add to the main article either). RobCA (talk) 19:41, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

As far as i know the Ottawa U had power during the blackout a few years back as a result of the power outages at the time. However for sources I cant think of it you could check the website. I would recommend removing the part, its more of a personal commentary that exams would always continue as a a result rather than a factual policy from the school.Ottawa4ever (talk) 17:12, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I just found this article: [1]. It implies (but is not explicit) that the power plant allowed the university to stay open during the summer exams that were going on at the time of that blackout. I'm still not comfortable including it without a more concrete source. I'll remove that part of the line for now, unless someone really feels it's important. Also, I agree with Landlord77's trivia tag. If the info in this section is really important, it should be integrated with other sections of the article. --RobCA (talk) 18:01, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Expansion needed on "fully bilingual"

I'm aware of the touchy nature of this issue to members and alumnus of this instituion, and subsequently that politics has little place in Wiki content, however I think it is necessary to be truthful to the bilingual issue. This is much more than just a passing. The institution is not bilingual it is rather two unilingual institutions. The only even remote demonstration of bilingual that I have seen is Prof. Raincourt's activism class, which operated in both French and English. Furthermore, the President has been known to favour the francophones on campus in a matter that is unfair and only furthers the frustration by saying that the university would flat out hire a French only employee versus an English only, despite the fact that the university policy for bilingual persons in customer/client care positions is pretty clear.

Clearly, I sit on the English side of this debate, which I precisely why I don't feel equipped to pen this addition or clarification, and why I'm bringing it up here.

It boils down to this: the "fully bilingual" insitituion that exists here is about as coherent as the fully bilingual Canada some might like to beleive exists. There is a pretty strong line that defines who fits into the fully bilingual category, and who is wholeheartedly against English or French in Canada (ala Quebec Separatists or Alberta oil tycoons [yes, i'm aware this is a blanket statement/gross stereotype, but i'm using it to illustrate a point]). The reason why I'm making this link is because the University of Ottawa image/identity is very similar to that of a Canadian. Fragile, at best.

On the note of the English memo trying to recruit anglophones, a bit more clarity is needed to that, perhaps say the uproar that resulted from all points of the institution, including French and English students (as separate groups) and the administrative action/comments that resulted.

Anyhow, hopefully I've stirred the pot a little bit, quite interested in what everyone has to say about this. (and, I'm not hiding, I just dont have a wiki account.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.25.72.57 (talk • contribs)

It's not expanded because the article has to remain neutral, and anything added has to be verifiable and carefully cited with sources. Ardenn 17:43, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Sources need updates. All metronews sources are voided and unavailable.

Talk about arrogance! This kind of attitude is exactly what ticks off francophones. The whole section on bilinguism refers and promote only the anglophone community's perspective without any source. The given statistics have no source or verification, don't mention anything about the historical majority of francophone vs the recent majority of anglophones while putting little or no emphasis on the enormous lack of classes offered in french in most departments. None of the arguments provided by the french community have been put forward while pleading for the anglophone side and treated as facts. That section is an insult to the legitimacy of the debate and the reputation of an university.

The 'bilingual' status is a mock and a joke especially when you look at the amount of class offered in both language. For the department of economics, only one class was offered in french while 7 classes were provided in english. Ingeenering departments offer most classes only in english while the fledging french taught classes are not sufficient.

There could be something added about the University's recent announcement that it will be creating a body to examine the question of bilingualism in response to some of the complaints that have been brought to their attention. Other than that, bilingualism gripes are just that . . . gripes.

You can read the university's regulation on bilingualism here [2]. It clearly states that French and English are the official languages of the university and that the institution must “further bilingualism and biculturalism and preserve and develop French culture in Ontario”; therefore the wikipedia article should reflect and respect this. Trappy

Removed outdated sources, changed text to reflect a neutral point of view and provide a more fact-based and encyclopedic entry. Francois8

I completely agree with this point of view i think it reflects the university better

[edit] Weasel words

"The University of Ottawa ranks 7th in research-intensive universities and 8th in total research funding in the country, receiving close to $200 million. The U of O also has the 3rd largest co-operative education program in Canada, with a 95% placement rate." Ardenn 04:33, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Endowement?

In this article, it says that UOttawa has over a billion, but according to the Group of Thirteen (Canadian universities) article, Uottawa has only around 60 million.

Its endowment is not close to a billion. The only university in Canada receiving over a billion is UofT. This needs to be changed. This whole article is full of selective puffery - someone with illusions of grandeur wrote it. While the University of Ottawa is a high-calibre academic institution which is well known for CERTAIN programs, this article makes it seem as though it is the BEST school in Canada. However; the statistics (a variety of statistics) don't give the same perception. The article should be edited to represent a more un-bias, accurate point of view.--74.98.113.160 01:33, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Largest bilingual university in North America

Reverted, I think it's verifiable, unless you disagree with Hilary Weston [3] [4] [5] -- Samir (the scope) धर्म 06:08, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

It's not NPOV. We've already had this discussion. Read the archives. Ardenn 06:10, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I read them. Couldn't find the consensus. -- Samir

(the scope) धर्म 06:16, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

The consensus is that it doesn't belong in the article. I argued with a troll over this, I'm not going to argue over it again. If I have to, I'll slap an NPOV tag on the article, again. Ardenn 06:19, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't aware of the past history. I personally see no POV in saying that it is the largest bilingual university in North America, and I see enough WP:V for it, which is why I made the reversion. But if the consensus was as you mentioned, then I won't argue with it. -- Samir

(the scope) धर्म 06:36, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

As was mentioned somewhere before, you don't see a lot of boasting over at Harvard University so why is it needed here? Ardenn 06:37, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

There's also other info there that isn't verified. Don't assume I meant the first paragraph put in. Ardenn 06:10, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Guys, u can check out all the info at University of Ottawa Website. All the facts are right there.Darylm 06:30, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Please read WP:NPOV. It's up to you to cite reliable sources, not us. Ardenn 06:31, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I slapped an NPOV tag on the page. Ardenn 06:32, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I added a link http://www.media.uottawa.ca/mediaroom/resources_facts-e.php , now can u remove the tag. Darylm 06:43, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

That doesn't cut the mustard. You have to show each and every case where it applies. Ardenn 06:43, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

ok, i added a link in the first para Darylm 06:49, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, it verifies it, but doesn't take care of the neutrality of the article. Ardenn 06:50, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, i added a few more links, check it out. Darylm 06:59, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Can you verify...

"The average entering grade for the University of Ottawa admissions this past fall semester was 84%, and increases for limited enrolment and more popular programs such as criminology, political science, law, pure sciences, health sciences, biopharmaceutical sciences, and medicine." Ardenn 06:12, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I can't -- Samir

(the scope) धर्म 06:15, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV

How is it not neutral??? All the sources have been cited. Aloha1212 17:34, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

POV != verified. Read WP:NPOV. I have reported you at WP:AN/I for removing the POV tag. Ardenn 17:44, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Whoa there, if we're going to be throwing around policy pages, let's try to remember WP:FAITH too. -Joshuapaquin 18:34, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I also don't see the point of the POV tag, and I see no consensus at all in the archives on anything. Reporting users to AN/I will not achieve consensus. I intend to seek consensus here, else straw poll it. Also, I'd appreciate if the Faculty of Medicine - University of Ottawa link not be reverted without discussion. -- Samir

(the scope) धर्म 02:32, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA failure

This has failed Good Article status. There are lots of lists and not enough prose. The references are not cited properly and there is a citation tag. Many of the statements are unverified. Many headings are in caps for each word. It needs a fair amount of work.Rlevse 18:41, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What about Tom?

Is Tom Green not notable?

Is he an alumnus? According to the article on Tom Green he attended Algonquin College and had a radio program on the U of O radio station. There's nothing saying he was a U of O student. Canadiana 17:24, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Peter Jennings?

Is there a source for Peter Jennings being a notable alumnus? The only place I can find is IMDb.com. All other sources say he briefly attended Carleton University and one source called it "Carleton University of Ottawa"... maybe he was mistakingly placed on UofO's list? Ltig3 22:05, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

He did actually did also attend the University of Ottawa briefly. Here's the link. http://www.halifaxlive.com/artman/publish/jennings_080805_7712.shtml

Cosmos416 18:05, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! Hadn't seen that link. Ltig3 15:51, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reputation section biased?

I think the reputation area needs to be revamped. Stating that the U of O is "well ranked" in some ranking publications is a little vague, deceiving and ambiguous. This is an encyclopedia. We're looking for facts, not opinions. That's why we use citations here. --Buffer v2 01:33, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] PROBLEM

The endowment is much lower than 1.87 billion Jifdjng 18:25, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

True That! 4fdf323 20:37, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Strange contribution

A recent international table produced by Shanghai Jiao Tong University rated University of Ottawa in the 200 bracket of top 50 universities in the world, placing it amongst the top 6% world-wide [6].

What the heck does that mean being in the 200 bracket of the top 50 Oo. ? Esurnir 22:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

A bit new to wikipedia so dont know quite how to refernce my source, anyway looking into universities for grad studies i consulted Times Higher Education Supplement a UK site which ranks universities internationally, anyway the University of Ottawa is not in their top 200 where a few other canadain universities are. A subscription is necessary but you can use a free trial to view the rankings (see http://www.thes.co.uk/ ). Shanghai Jiao Tong University is just a univesity doing a ranking of other Universities.

[edit] This article needs work

The "reputation" section seems to have been copied directly from the university's promotional material. It comes across as somewhat defensive, and one-sided. It summarizes every positive review published about the U of O, but omits all negative ones. As a student of the U of O, I am somewhat biased, but the school's reputation is not that spectacular.

The section on the bilingual controversy reads like it was written by someone with multiple personality disorder. Rather than no point of view, there are two distinct, and very narrow points of view. The real issue is far too complex to be written in a single paragraph by a few people with chips on their shoulder. Being a bilingual institution creates a whole host of issues. What the article lacks is a wholistic approach to the effects of bilingualism on all aspects of the university's existence.

Currently the article focuses entirely on why the school doesn't suck, and the conflict between french and english. There's a lot more to the U of O than that, and I encourage anyone with good info to contribute.

As a side-note, I'd like to vent about my own personal chip on my shoulder. A problem that I've experienced is the large number of courses being taught in english by professors who cannot speak english. Some of these are francophone professors that are hired as "bilingual" professors despite not being able to speak english, while others cannot speak either english or french very well. Either way, they cannot speak the language of instruction well enough to convey the subject matter, make their expectations clear, or even answer simple questions. My own personal experience doesn't belong in the article, but it's an issue that is a real problem for the university.

--70.81.251.32 09:13, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, the reputation part stating that the school continues to perform well in Maclean's rankings has been removed. Totally biased and deceiving. It fails to mention their overall rank, and the word "well" is ambiguous. This is an encyclopedia. We're not looking for bias. Factual information only. Also, people need to watch their choice of words. E.g. the school continues to perform "well" in Maclean's rankings, and describing the G13 as the "top" universities in Canada. This article needs A LOT of work. --68.145.246.117 05:32, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Looking at it, the whole Reputation section needs to be revamped. Horribly done --68.145.246.117 05:34, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

The reputation section certainly does need work - as a student at Ottawa U in arts I'm pretty disappointed to see that the reputation section only talks about Ottawa U's excellent science/medicine reputation without counterbalancing with its fairly abysmal treatment of arts. Arianna 14:02, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Should there even be a standalone reputation section to begin with? Again, I'm looking at other wikipedia university entries as guidance, particularly those that attained GA/FA status. I think there's room for some of the information, but probably more as a supplement to other sections of the article. --RobCA (talk) 19:51, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:University of Ottawa Logo.gif

Image:University of Ottawa Logo.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 11:39, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Last edit

There was deletion about a year 2005 debate competition. If it was deleted because it was three years ago, that's not a good reason. If it is too trivial, say so and I would agree because I don't know better. Else if there is another reason why the mention is inappropriate say so. Thanks Radio Guy (talk) 06:02, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I looked at the heading and it says trivia... is there a rule about truvia? Radio Guy (talk) 06:04, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Just it creates a biased argument about the university theres alot on this page of claims of grandeur with little source baking it up. your right it should be in there however it should also be noted that the championship was not defended. As well if this was further elaborated we could mention as trivia that the university of Toronto won the following year giving canada back to back championships perhaps thats a better thing and maybe it does belong in trivia rather than reputation, what do you think Ottawa4ever (talk) 06:19, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] THES

The primary reason this article has lost good article status is that people paint a biased picture oif the university when this stops this article will be able to achieve that. Its biggest weakness is the false picture of rankings it paints. I think the THES reference is necessary and gives the article two sides of the coin. especially considering both a good and quasi negative reputation is compared in the paragraph. If the sentance could be reworded id suggest we put in its actual ranking in the world which is between 200-230. In fact about 14 schools rank higher in this list. 14 is still respectful. But the plain fact is this is the most recongnized ranking system and the top 200 are published in the magazine (500 on the web) Ottawa did not make this ranking. Im open to fixing this if theres interest Sayswho (talk) 01:30, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Student Code of Conduct

Does this need its own section, or can we merge it with Student Life? I know it's a pretty big deal on campus at the moment, but it's still a proposed code that hasn't been implemented yet, so I'm not sure how significant it is to have here. I'm looking towards other university wikipedia entries as an example. If nobody objects, I'll merge it with Student Life for the time being. --RobCA (talk) 19:41, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I've integrated this with the Student life section. I'm having trouble trying to present the facts while keeping it NPOV. Any feedback would be appreciated, thanks. --RobCA (talk) 01:22, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, if somebody can find a source for the statement that the Board of Governors and Senate meeting events lead to the code, please add them. Otherwise that line should probably be removed. Thanks. --RobCA (talk) 01:25, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

My belief is after a year or so this will blow over and wont necissarily be relevant in a few semesters. Other schools have a student code of conduct that is continually evolving based on events that occur on campus (Queens U recently updated theirs to reflect students using racist and prejudice remarks), it just allows the school to better handle these situations. Ottawa U is about people bad mouthing the university. Theres other things in there but i dont see how (I may be wrong) that its going to be releveant to mention here down the road since many universities have simillar things going on. It may be intersting to compare the code with other schools and see if anything 'standsout' that might make it more relevant, but agian might not justify its own section, more of a student life thing. Your call. You might be able to find board minutes as well for a source they should be assessible, but might require a bit more reading Ottawa4ever (talk) 13:06, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree that it probably will be forgotten in a few years time and probably doesn't belong on here in the first place. But for now, there are so many other problems with this article, I don't feel like worrying too much about defending its inclusion or not with those who feel strongly about it at the moment. I'll leave it for now and worry more about the lack of sources and formatting issues in the rest of the article. Thanks for the insight. --RobCA (talk) 19:28, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Academics and Research sections

The Academics section needs to be cleaned up, it reads like a list of faculties. I'm thinking that we can probably move some of the Reputation section content to the Academics and Research sections and potentially eliminate the Reputation section altogether. My main concern is keeping it NPOV, as has been mentioned many times in the talk pages over the years. Any thoughts on this before I spend the time on it? --RobCA (talk) 21:02, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

It seems like an eye sore on the page, especially since most of the links to the faculties are dead at the moment. Its a good idea to mix academics/ research with rep( it basically is reputation). but from what i remember theirs alot of little splices about reputation throughout the article maybe we can move them into one section all together as well? The biggest concern though is not to make the section appear biased. Ottawa4ever (talk) 13:10, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah it's a mess and I'm having trouble deciding where to start. I can't even find sources for some of the claims which means they'll probably eventually be removed unless someone can find them. I honestly don't even want to look at the academics section right now. The bilingualism section could probably do with a complete overhaul too at some point (I really don't know where to start with that one). --RobCA (talk) 19:33, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gourman report

The Gourman report has been a heavily critized document for evaluating universities. This primarily due to its ranking of non existant deparments at universities and not disclosing the methodology for making these evaluations. I for one am willing to go side for its inclusion. But i think a few things must be considered before we include it. the first being it needs to be sourced ie what year it appeared in that ranking not simply presented as such. Secondly the fact should be included in the reputation section and not the introduction, as yes its cited by some universities but its not entirly a credible ranking service. Above all The focal point of this article which has been stressed above is that in the past it has been very biased, and greatly needs to be improved, which can easily be acheived by removing unsourced claims or accurately citing them.

As far as I can tell looking for a source of my own the last time the gourman report was published was 1996. (this is a claim from another wikipedia article on University rankings. Indeed if the ranking is 12 years old inclusion should not be made as ottawaU has significantly like other schools changed since then. There may be a newer source. take care and happy editing Ottawa4ever (talk) 17:02, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for including the source on the university of ottawa page for the gourman report. However do you think you could find a more recent source than something from 1998? Im for placing it in but rankings that old really arent that relevant and crediable as universities under go alot of change over 10 years. Thanks Ottawa4ever (talk) 16:06, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Is the Gourman report really that relevant to this article? First of all, it's about 10 years old. Second of all, according to the very limited resources I found regarding it online, it doesn't appear to be that highly regarded due to the methodology. Thirdly, if you go to the root of the domain hosting that source, the site itself doesn't instill a lot of confidence. Is it really that important to include a reference to something that's so out of date and is questionable in value? Or did I miss the boat on the importance of this ranking? Maybe include it in the reputation section but I'm not sure it belongs at the top of the article. RobCA (talk) 16:21, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Ive looked pretty extensively and the newest report i could find was 1998. I think at the very least 1998 should be added to the reference. And very much in favour of including it in the reputation section not the introductory paragraphOttawa4ever (talk) 16:26, 26 May 2008 (UTC).