Talk:United States withdrawal from the United Nations
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[edit] Title
I'd welcome any and all help in improving this article, in both length and substance. Travis Cleveland (talk) 11:47, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
- "Secession" really doesn't seem to be the right word here - it's not used in any of the sources that I can see, and it implies UN sovereignty which doesn't really exist; in fact, in many ways it's sufficiently loaded to skew the tone of the article! A sovereign state can't really "secede" from an organisation or a treaty...
- You'd really want something about "ending involvement" or "ending membership", but they don't make fior a very clear title - I've changed it to "withdrawal", United States withdrawal from the United Nations. Shimgray | talk | 00:32, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
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- According the the Dictionary, Seceding means "to withdraw formally from an alliance, federation, or association, as from a political union, a religious organization, etc." which would seem to fit the situation. The United Nations is in fact an association of countries. That being said, I do a think that some might think that "Secession" may seem a bit POV to some people; changing it to "Withdrawl" seems to be dumbing the name down, but I suppose it is nessesary to keep the article neutral. Travis Cleveland (talk) 12:08, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
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- Come to think of it, "Withdraw" is the term used in HR1146; I suppose that reinforces it as the correct word to use. Travis Cleveland (talk) 12:17, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] ReWrite?
I think that the article misses the point that since the fall of the USSR the US has been the only super power and so it wants to get on with doing what it considers right while the rest of the world has other ideas. Previously it would have been the US and the USSR arguing while other nations took sides but now the sides are the US and most other nations (at least it is the EU [without Britain], China, and Russia vs. the US, Britain and a few others). The point is that often criticisms about the US being in the UN are not about cost effectiveness or constitutionality or other principles but expressions of frustration from those who want to see the US acting more unilaterally. Many would say that the Bush Admin. has undermined the US view of the UN for this purpose (for instance the lack of a resolution for the use of force in Iraq is stated as a failure of the UN when actually it is a failure of the UN to do what America (and Britain and a few others) want).
I hope that was not to much of a rant. What I really want to get across is that a lot of people feel that US complaints about the UN are actually US complaints about the rest of the world not falling into line. The article is quite good on the US internal view of the UN but does not give any wider view of what the world may think about US withdrawal motives.
Opinions?
CaptinJohn (talk) 11:58, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
- Perhaps it is a fact that the United States wants to act unilaterally (which it does), and wants to do it without any supranational entity telling it that it needs a "permission slip." However, the constitutionality of the UN's actions has certainly been a key point for all legistlation regarding leaving the UN. The US rejects the International Court, many reject the law of the sea treaty, and several other UN programs. I don't think that it is any one perticular thing, I just believe that Americans see the UN as usurping them. If you recall, John Kerry's "Global Test" statement was viewed negativley by the majority of Americans, because Americans felt that requiring permission from other nations infringed on American soverignty. In every sense, the internal US view is more important than the external view with regards to withdrawl. That being said, I hope that you will assist in this article, and I will try to include some of your views. A full rewrite is unwarranted, but restructuring it to be more of a global view may be, and to that end I am adding a few tags. Travis Cleveland (talk) 15:51, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
No I think it's mainly isolationism and/or anti-globalism. Do you really think the average American--who couldn't find the middle east on a map--is scheming up some kind of agenda about what should be done there? Foreign policy is usually not even on people's priorities in polls. Even now, look at the presidential polls, the economy is number one by a wide margin. Presidents tend to focus on foreign policy because that's where most of their power lies, that's all. Other countries get the idea that Americans are obsessed with foreign matters when the opposite is the case; most Americans consider foreign countries irrelevant. 71.128.205.128 (talk) 09:48, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Conspiracy Theories?
I'm not sure who, but sombody added a little bit of information to the history section of this article about conspiracy theories. Now, it reads a little "odd," I think it either needs to be expanded to make more sense, or completly cut from the article. Any suggestions? Travis T. Cleveland (talk) 21:45, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
