Talk:United States–Iran relations

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[edit] Iraq war

I think the US's support of iraq's failed invasion and campaign against Iran should be mentioned —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.164.158.64 (talk) 02:11, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What about Iran-Contra Affair?

Certainly there should be some mention the Iran-Contra Affair? This is a pretty significant event in the relationship between Iran and the USA. Wikipedia's article on this is good. Also, I would be interested in some research about attempts to establish diplomatic relations in the past, who initiated these attempts, what the obstacles were. (See "Needs an Overview", below.)

[edit] Iranian Oil

On 22:04, 8 November 2005 68.59.6.216 edited the page to include "However as the date of March 20, 2006 draws closer this seems decreasingly probable" with respect to the International Oil Bourse. Please substantiate this!

I was just about to ask about this as well "This attempt to rebalance trading relationships in the world economy may trigger a series of far reaching consequences, including the potential for a resource war with the United States of America over the flow of both dollars and oil. However as the date of March 20, 2006 draws closer this seems decreasingly probable." In what way is war becoming decreasingly probable? If anything its increasingly. Please back this up Genjix 22:11, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

I thought that George W. Bush has said that Iran harbors Al qaeda terrorists. This in spite the fact that the Taliban who hosted Al Qaida have been Iran's mortal enemies due to their strong anti-shia policy. Source Ahmed Rashid's book about the Taliban. (I find such total igorance of the facts by the most powerful man on this planet quite upsetting.) Andries 18:22, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

You might want to consider adding something about the US backing Iraq in the 80's in the Iraq-Iran War to overthrow the Ayatollah. That had to have further marred US-Iran relations. Drozmight 09:37, 28 Jan 2005 (PST)

[edit] petroeuro shifted to 2005-2006 US-Israeli threats to attack Iran

i shifted the following section to 2005-2006 US-Israeli threats to attack Iran:

On March 20, 2006, Iran plans to participate in a new International Oil futures exchange, trading oil priced as Petroeuros, rather than Petrodollars, as oil is traded in all other markets (as of 2005). This attempt to rebalance trading relationships in the world economy may trigger a series of far reaching consequences, including the potential for a resource war with the United States of America over the flow of both dollars and oil. However as the date of March 20, 2006 draws closer this seems decreasingly probable.

though i reworded it somewhat, and i removed the last sentence as it was unsourced. If someone finds a source, please feel welcome to bring it back (probably in 2005-2006 US... ?) with an appropriate citation. i think decisions on NPOV summarising the whole situation probably need to be done in the other article, though of course, i hope that people will come to this article to read the general background of US-Iran relations (there's a summary at the beginning of 2005-2006 US... about US-Iran relations in the XXth century). Boud 15:19, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] who is arthur keenan?

See the edit by 18:32, 14 February 2006 69.56.125.33 who replaced Howard Baskerville by Arthur Keenan - at present, Arthur Keenan is a red link and i don't see any evidence claiming the baskerville article is wrong. So i reverted to baskerville. Boud 23:10, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Needs an overview

This article doesn't have much of an overview of what the current official status is. Is it recognition? Are they on speaking terms? When was the last official contact? Also, I think we could stand to include this image in the article, it's pretty illustrative of what"s happened to the former american presence there. Night Gyr 21:56, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I do believe the last official contact was with Robert McFarlane. I recall he visited Tehran in the mid 80s. I cant recall of anything afterwards.--Zereshk 04:26, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad sent a letter to Bush a month ago: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's letter to George W. Bush; and now the US has accepted the principle of talks with Iran together with the EU-3 - see e.g. http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/PressReleases/2006/prn200611.html. Boud 23:50, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
See the section Direct Inter-Parliamentary (Congress-to-Majlis) informal talks - these were not official talks, but they were talks between elected representatives (both US and Iranian representatives are filtered from being selected - in the US by the party machines and media control and in Iran by the Guardian Council and media control - but there is certainly some element of democracy in both cases, more than in, say, North Korea or Saudia Arabia). In any case, it's not as if Iran is on Mars, i'm sure there must have been other recent cases of contact between politicians of the two countries... Boud 23:09, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] template:US-Iran relations

I propose making a table for the articles related to this issue like "Template:Arab-Israeli Conflict".--Sa.vakilian 12:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Concerns of Iranian and US governments against each other

IMO this section, and many of the sections that follow, are too overtly political for Wikipedia. This could easily (and should not) degenerate into a litany of complaints and accusations against the USA or Iran. Things should be phrased in more general terms, as accurately and as neutrally as possible. Should we put Rush Limbaugh into this mix? It would be better to chop all of this out, and simply say that the major concern is that strong rhetoric on both sides seem to indicate a continuing degradation in the US and Iranian relationship. It is hard to be more accurate than that.

"strong rhetoric on both sides seem to indicate a continuing degradation" seems quite vague and also would be rather close to original research, since it would claim that the concerns by both sides are only "rhetoric" and have no basis in genuine problems/concerns/worries. Stating the lists of concerns (complaints and accusations) by both sides does not (should not, in the case of wikipedia) try to establish which of the complaints and accusations are true or false, though if relevant wikipedia entries exist, then linking to them would be natural. Readers can then go to those entries and decide from the NPOV versions of those articles if they want to believe one or the other or both or neither parties. The fears by either side, or the statements (whether sincere or hypocritical) by politicians on either side, can be reasonably NPOV reported to exist. The relations between two states are either good or bad (or somewhere in between) depending partly on what problems are perceived to exist and also on what problems genuinely exist.
If you believe any of the claims are POV or OR, then add an appropriate tag to those items. Or discuss the specific items here on the discussion page. The wording introducing the two lists could (probably should) be NPOVed, and more references should probably be provided for the specific points. Feel free to find the references and add them. It requires a bit of web searching and editing work, but that's what many of us do in wikipedia.
Boud 03:59, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Most of the concerns do have links to either a wikipedia article or to an external source, so the work remaining is on the few points which lack these; and on the introductory sentences. Boud 04:06, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
I believe this section is key to the article. Is there a specific reference to the work of Jahangir Amuzegar? --Ren or stimpy 10:15, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] President Khatami?

How is there no mention of president Khatami? He was president before Ahmadinejad and he and his reformist friends were making serious efforts to establish relations with the U.S. Things were going alright until Bush took over and declared Iran part of the axis of evil. This ironically destabilized the reformists and Khatami and allowed the neoconservative radical party of Ahmadinejad to take over who are more hostile to the U.S. and more friendly towards terror. —Preceding unsigned comment added by User:70.119.9.81 (talk • contribs)

Feel free to edit it. Anyone can edit!! -- Szvest - Wiki me up ® 10:53, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why did the US raid the Consulate?

That's about it. VolatileChemical 02:59, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

This is so one sided. No mention of the fact that these guys were from the Revolutionary Guards Quds Force?Badbrad101 01:30, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Allegedly? --64.109.56.207 03:44, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Iranian-backed Hezbollah

User M3taphysical added an "Iranian-backed" before Hezbollah and somebody seem to have trouble with that and reverted it today. I support the revert by the anonymous coward. As a matter of fact, If anyone insists on putting the "Iranian-backed" back, I'd demand that he/she adds a "US-backed" before Israel. The Wiki will not tolerate double-standards. Thank you. Lixy 18:47, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Difference is that Hezbollah is actually a proxy of Iran. Israel is a country. Hezbollah is a terrorist organization, Israel is a country. Who runs this place? This page is one big Anti-American Rant. No mention of Iran's support for insurgents in Iraq, them attempting to kidnap american soldiers and actually kidnapping UK sailors/marines. Way one sided...Badbrad101 01:30, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
If you did some serious research on Hezbollah, you'd find out that it is a grassroots movement created to fight the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon. It was voted into governement by the Lebanese people and that shows how fed up the locals are of the regular attacks on the sovereignty of their country. Also, kidnapping doesn't apply to military personel. In that case, we talk about capture. Anyway, the US does kidnap Iranian officials, has raided the Iranian embassy in Baghdad and Bush continues terrorizing the Iranian people by talking about "all options [being] on the table". Lixy 12:35, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Lixy... just look at the way you talk... bias anyone? This page is a disgrace. Those Iranian 'officials' were Quds forces. I'll do some research and should be able to show more than a few cases of Iranian agression against the US or Iran supporting the enemies of the US and other terrorist organizations... like Hezbollah. Not to mention the fact I was 12 miles from the Iranian boarder for a year and was privy to plenty I cannot share with you. They have plenty of US blood on their hands... and the fact that you still think WE are the bad guys is disconcerting.Badbrad101 16:03, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Odd Russia and Iraq condemned it then. Maybe not everything coming out of the US government is accurate, whether it is because of incompetence or intentions. --64.109.56.207 03:48, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject. Sean.hoyland (talk) 05:23, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge request: Plans_for_military_attacks_against_Iran

At the moment, there is a AfD on the related Plans_for_military_attacks_against_Iran. It may be best to merge the relevant bits of that article into this article. --70.51.234.169 23:07, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

I've added an external link to the article 'Surrounded: Seeing the World from Iran’s Point of View' by Dr. Houman A. Sadri, Associate Professor of International Relations at the University of Central Florida in the U.S. Army Combined Arms Center - Military Review (July-August 2007 English Edition). Although there already seem to be rather a lot of external links of possibly questionable value I think this one fits in nicely with this Wiki page. Have a read. Sean.hoyland (talk) 03:28, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] totallydisputed tag

I would like to propose removal of the {{totallydisputed}} tag in the hope that this will trigger people who care to detail the concerns they have as to the neutrality and factual accuracy of this article on this discussion page so that the issues can be resolved. Having read the article I think it is fair to say that it needs some work.

I'll start off the discussion with a proposal to remove the 'Its suggested other complaints might include[citation needed]' section entirely from 'Concerns of Iranian and US governments'. Without citations that link these to statements by the Iranian and/or US governments about obstacles to resumption of relations this list adds little to the article. Sean.hoyland (talk) 06:53, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Since no one responded I have removed the following section and put it here

Its suggested other complaints might include[citation needed]:

  • CIA Operation Ajax to overthrow democratically chosen Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh and restore the exiled Shah;
  • U.S. Support for anti-Iranian terrorist organisations (i.e. the MKO);[1]
  • U.S. companies assistance in developing Iraq's chemical weapons facilities during the Iran-Iraq war.;
  • USS Vincennes shooting down Iran Air Flight 655 with many civilian fatalities;
  • Economic damage caused by U.S. sanctions and political pressure;
  • U.S. UAV overflights over Iran violating Iranian airspace since 2003.
  • U.S. military presence in the neighboring countries of Iraq and Afghanistan.
  • Its human rights record.
  • US, a democracy, used weapons of mass destruction (a nuclear weapon) as a tool in war. The only occurrence known in the recorded human history.

Sean.hoyland (talk) 19:28, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Incomprehensible

The whole Iran's alleged criticism of U.S. Government's "colonial government" in Puerto Rico (U.N.) section is basically incomprehensible and should be rewritten. Raul654 (talk) 19:43, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Overemphasis on Bush administration

The article is stressing the Bush jr. administration too much - up to two-thirds of the article deals with his administration. I think that perhaps a sixth is more appropriate. We should summarize his administration, and perhaps create one or some subarticles. Sijo Ripa (talk) 13:04, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Current intro not neutral, and has no header

As it stands, the current intro has a paragraph that reads as follows:

American antagonism toward the Islamic Republic has led to sanctions on trade between the two countries, while the Islamic Republic has expressed its antipathy to "the Great Satan" in slogans such as "On that day when the US ... will praise us, we should morn," and "United States of America after Qods occupier regime [Israel] is the most hated before our nation."[1] This strikes me as slightly inflammatory, since it is written using presumably Iranian labels e.g. "the Great Satan" and "Occupier Regime". While such labels can be illustrative to capture the supposed Iranian point of view, it is not neutral. (I am assuming good faith was made in the writing of the above paragraph, but I believe it is still likely to be provocative due to its bias.)

I'd like to make this whole paragraph more neutral sounding, in addition to adding a header. If anyone has advice, please feel free to suggest it by replying.Twir (talk) 20:16, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

On second thought, I will just delete the paragraph for now, since it also has no information not contained elsewhere in the article. For instance, the mention of trade sanctions is irrelevant since there is a section (and a separate article) about this already.Twir (talk) 20:21, 12 February 2008 (UTC)