Talk:Ulster Volunteer Force

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Ulster Volunteer Force article.
Article policies
This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:

Aughavey 29 June 2005 13:49 (UTC) Just a note to say that whilst the article is based in truth it is also biased. The conflict in Northern Ireland was ethnic-religious by the fact that largely, although by no means unanimously, the Catholic (Nationalist / Republican) people did not support the Northern Ireland state or its continuing links to the UK prefering to obtain reunification with the South of Ireland whilst the Protestant population were largely Unionist / Loyalist in out look wishing to retain Ireland (Northern Ireland after partition - the vast majority of Irish Protestants live in Ulster) within the UK.

The comment about the Ulster Defence Regiment helping with the Dublin bombing is also unsubstantiated. The Barron report could not find any eveidence for this but did not rule out individual members of the security forces colluding with the UVF.*

  • This has recently been proven TRUE, as of 22nd Jan 2007...."Police colluded with loyalists behind over a dozen murders in north Belfast, a report by the Police Ombudsman of Northern Ireland has confirmed.

Nuala O'Loan's report said UVF members in the area committed murders and other serious crimes while working as informers for Special Branch."

Aughavey 1 July 2005 21:27 (UTC)



"These attacks were carried out in conjunction with the Ulster Protestant Volunteers, another paramilitary organisation, which had been established by the Reverend Ian Paisley. Many men were members of both groups."

This is entirely unsubstantiated. From the University of Ulster CAIN website:- Ulster Protestant Volunteers (UPV) A Loyalist paramilitary style grouping which was established in the late 1960s. The UPV had close links with the Ulster Constitution Defence Committee (UCDC) which was established by Ian Paisley in 1966. The UPV took part in most of the counter demonstrations organised by Paisley against the Civil Rights marches of the late 1960s. The motto of the UPV was, 'For God and Ulster'.

Ulster Constitution Defence Committee (UCDC) The UCDC was established in 1966 and was made up of a committee of 13 with Ian Paisley as the head of the committee. The UCDC was the means by which Paisley led the protest against the reforms of Terence O'Neill in the late 1960s. The UCDC was also the ruling body of the Loyalist paramilitary style grouping the Ulster Protestant Volunteers (UPV).


Aughavey 14:30, 20 July 2005 (UTC) Mr McCord was in Washington for St Patricks Day 2005 alongside the McCartney sisters who`s brother was killed by Sinn Fein / IRA members and also the widow of Detective Garda McCabe(Irish police officer) who was shot during a bungled IRA armed robbery to campaign in america against the Loyalist and Republican paramilitaries.

Reaction: Sinn Féin/IRA? Robert McCartney was murdered by members of the (late) IRA for sure, but by members of Sinn Féin...?

Contents

[edit] Disambiguation Page?

I am new to Wiki, so bear with me as I figure out how to organize my comments and keep them separate from others'. I wanted to say, after reading this article, and then going to the article about the IRA, this one seems extremely biased. There is so much about the anti-Catholicism that it actually serves to stir people up, thinking only formed for purposes of religious hatred. Contrast this article to the one about the IRA. The one for the IRA, which was/is composed of Roman Catholics who were usually fighting against Protestants, is written in a much more objective style. For example, the article on the IRA notes that the British gov. considers them a terrorist group, but supporters prefer "freedom fighters", "guerillas", etc. For the Ulster article, it is simply said this group is terrorist. Then it goes on and on about all the anti-Catholic rhetoric. Whoever wrote this, is either Catholic and very anti-protestant, or...? because there seems to be an angry undertone, as if this author takes personal offense. It needs to be rewritten, if it is to be suitable for an encylopedia Honeytrap

Hello,

Would this article not be better and more clear if it was made into a form of disambiguation page. The original "Ulster Volunteer Force" is in no way related to the current paramilitary/terrorist organisation that uses the name. Having them in the same article implies tat they are the same organisation. Comments please.

Jonto 01:50, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. There should be different pages. Jdorney 16:35, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Ulster Volunteer Force today is the same force when it was first established but today are known as paramilitary/terrorist organisation , thats the only difference. [Unsigned]

I think this should be made into a form of disambiguation page with Links to Ulster Volunteer Force (1912) and Ulster Volunteer Force (1966), as they are clearly two distinct organisations.--padraig3uk 16:24, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dublin/Monaghan bombings collusion

The UVF issued a statement[1] in 1993 claiming they carried out the bombings alone.

The Barron report [2] says this: "However, while [Mr. Justice Barron] felt there was direct evidence that collusion was operating in Northern Ireland at that time, he also felt there was no evidence to suggest direct collusion in relation to the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.". (That's not to say there was no collusion of course, especially given the incompetent Garda investigation and the various other confirmed cases of loyalist/security force collusion, but the word "alleged" is necessary as a disclaimer.)

Demiurge 10:43, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

The UVF are terrorists... Plain and simple... Not "defenders" just psychopats... murders...

I personally think 'Death Squad' is a more accurate label. SCVirus 01:44, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

When exactly did the UVF "defend" the Loyalist people? The well armed police in Northern Ireland consisted, and still consists of, a large majority of Protestants. It's members therefore have always been broadly sympathetic to the Loyalist community. Surely this was the most effective defense they had?

The UVF never protected Protestants, the vast majority of it's victims were civilians that were targeted for their religion rather than as part of any specific strategy against the IRA. This would indicate that it's motives were hatred of Catholics rather than protection of it's own community.

Indeed, considering the fact that the UVF killed a total of 21 IRA or INLA members throughout the entire troubles (the UDA got another 2), while they murdered over 350 civilians (the UDA murdered another 78), they cannot be considered by any sane individual defenders. SCVirus 05:12, 5 February 2006 (UTC) PS: please sign your messages people.

To the above 'For God And Ulster' person - Can't you grasp that this is an encyclopedia? Keep your opinions off it. If you think Ulster will remain british, fine, but don't try to provoke people by putting in on Wikipedia. There are plenty of Loyalist websites you can post your opinions on.--Dicdoc 15:11, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


To the "for god and for ulster" guy. This is an encyclopedia. Go away back to followfollow.com and take your bigoted, hate filled, loyalist pish with you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.109.34.78 (talk • contribs) on 01:30, 21 February 2006

i'm sure the southern irish volunteers who fought within the 36th division would be proud of your comments, as for facts and figures , the ira has killed a lot more catholics than the loyalist paramilitaries ever did , but unlike your green tinted view (you're not american by any chance) this is an explanation of the original u.v.f and not the drug dealing gangsters of today, their deeds are well documented

I removed all the above comments from the "For God and Ulster" individual. This is a discussion page that is to be used to discuss ways improving this artical. Please direct any sectairian rantingas you may have to the various loyalist terrorist websites. Google them if you must. (213.190.156.154 (talk) 18:06, 6 February 2008 (UTC))

[edit] Add some things

Added an image and some history. This article should be ten times longer :/ Fluffy999 06:35, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Added another image, article needs more detail. It doesnt compare to all the Sinn Fein/IRA articles- just appears to go from listing one atrocity to another. Will see if I can add some details Fluffy999 22:48, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Some of the images will need to go- just noticed that you can only have 1 TV screenshot per article. An article on loyalist weaponry/importation might work- like the PIRA one. Will investigate. Fluffy999 16:08, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
I will not be responding to messages left on my talkpage or on pages for articles I have worked on. Will no longer be contributing to wikipedia. Thank you. Fluffy999 13:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] C18 Link?

I've removed the link to Combat 18 in 'See Also'.

The only mention of C18 in Henry McDonald's 2000 history of the UVF is "..the UVF threatened another nazi group C18, which was also attempting to organise in the east of the city.....the organisation was not exactly true to its own militaristic name and offered no combat at all against the UVF threat" pg220.

Nick Lowles's history of C18 "White Riot" makes no mention of any links to the UVF. What loyalist connections C18 had where with the UDA or later the LVF. Whiteabbey 18:56, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually the UVF did have some links with C18 according to Lowles see here. One Night In Hackney303 07:05, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External links

Seems non of the external links works, is it only my problem? else, they should be delete. Dorit 19:34, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Drug dealing activity

It seems a pretty obvious omission from the article.Irish Republican 22:17, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

So put it in then! Logoistic 22:33, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] website

Why did you remove my link to the UVF homepage? Surely an article on the UVF should include links to their own website! Also someone reffered to the UVF as a 'Nazi' organization. I know who sided with the Nazis during WWII and that was the IRA. Many UVF members fought and died .in the British army agianst Hilter. I supose it's more of the same usual leftist rubbish of reffering to anone who they don't like as a 'Fascist' or a 'Nazi'.

The link was dead as I stated, feel free to insert a link that works. One Night In Hackney303 17:23, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

The link to The UVF The Ulster People's Army does work so please do no delete it! Herut

Doesn't work on Firefox, so I've removed it per WP:EL. One Night In Hackney303 17:40, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't work in IE either, but strangely it does work in Safari. Any ideas why? Vilĉjo 20:32, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

Reverted copy back to undo page vandalism Rascilon 23:46, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:UVFcrest.jpg

Image:UVFcrest.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:24, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tag error

The link that claims that the Ulster's took responsiblity for the McGurk bombing is simply a list of the deaths. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.152.21.16 (talk) 21:26, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Added second reference, a member of the UVF was convicted for the bombings.--Padraig (talk) 23:59, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Missing citations

I have marked statements in the section on the UVF's activity in the 1980s and 90s with citation needed. This is mainly because it makes some rather sweeping statements without providing any references. To the best of my knowledge there is no evidence that the arms imported were bought from South Africa and plenty that they were bought from a Lebanese arms dealer. As for Ulster Resistance being involved with the UVF and UDA, it seems to me very unlikely given the state of the relationship between these groups at the time. I have also added further clarification that Michael Stone was a UDA member and not in the UVF. IrishPete (talk) 18:23, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

That's not difficult to source, I'll do it later. It's well documented that a substantial cache of arms was imported and split three ways between UR, the UDA and the UWF. One Night In Hackney303 18:24, 1 April 2008 (UTC)