User talk:Ukrained/Archive 2

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[edit] Link

The link you pointed out seems a bit unscholary, I think the author overblows the incidents of atrocities, I haven't got a good deal of knowledge, but I doubt every member was ordered to engage in rituals he describes, from what I know UPA engaged in atrocities and viscious murders took place, but the article's description seem too extaggerated. --Molobo 13:07, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Additionally the site seems to be involved with extreme right wing politics-I think you can safely delete this link, while it may hold a grain of truth it certainly would fit in disputed territory. I certainly wouldn't oppose it. --Molobo 16:18, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, one of your colleagues already commented that link. I'll use your opinion in attempt to delete it. Or we could move it to the text away from list of reliable sources. Sorry for delaying y answer. Ukrained 18:23, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] your userpage

I suggest you remove inflammatory stuff from your userpage. By keeping it you are not helping your edits to be perceived positively, unless this is exactly what you want. Finally, beware of the Black Book legacy that followed some Wikipedians much longer than they thought of it initially. This is just an advice. Please no trollish responses. --Irpen 04:41, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Irpen, I want anyone to "perceive" my edits just as they are (like edits, you know). If one fails - he is not really an encyclopedian :). BTW, you're the one who "hunts" some Wikipedians permanently (no matter if they deserve it or not). Your user page and contribution list are pretty much the "Black Books". And you may have got that "legacy" someday. So please, no double standards and no threats! Ukrained 06:54, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I specifically requested that there are no trollish responses. Apparently in vain. --Irpen 20:09, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Irpen, you're not allowed to determine the mode and essence of my answers (especially on my talkpage). Yes, you're the leader of influential pro-Russian group, but nothing more. As for your groundless accusation of trollism, I doubt that every objection to your POV qualifies as "trolling". Ukrained 21:16, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I call your responses for what I see them. I am flattered by being called a leader of something even more than I am offended (by you and for another countless time). And even though I see your constant blaming everything on Russians and pro-Russians (of which I am neither BTW) an unproductive paranoia, all I requested from you is to moderate your userpage which I am glad you partially did. --Irpen 21:34, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Comment by User:Irpen is deleted as contradicting Wikipedia rules Ukrained 10:35, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
Ok,let me rephrase both of us: User:Irpen has groundlessly tried to interprete Wikipedia rules by himself by using the words "certainly" etc. (as if he was an admin, ArbCom, Jimbo Whales, or God). I won't allow such a breach in my userpage. If Russian/pro-Russian users are willing to grant Irpen with some kind of exceptional status on WP, let them do it in official ways. That's why I'm deleting the whole his comment, like he suggests. Not to mention it was trolling. Ukrained 10:38, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Apology and attempting peace one more time

Ukrained, I apologize for the last message. I was surprized by your action and said so, but giving it a second thought, I think my response was provocative. Now you may delete this message as well or archive it or whatever. I just thought I say what's on my mind. My mistake was prompted by my answering in the midst of annoyance rather than giving it some time or not responding at all.

On a more general thing, please reconsider going militant in general. This will hurt the opportunity of others' to contribute as well as yours. We sill get stuck in these conflicts and will be able to contribute very little if at all. Much less, that's for sure. There will be just bad blood and no contributions.

I am not asking you to change your views or change the way you see how the articles need to be changed. Adult people don't change the views and besides, I don't see anything wrong with them and my views are less different from yours than you might think. I am simply asking you for a countless time to be more tolerant to others, not to assume bad faith so much and to help resolve the conflicts in a way they could be resolved, that is civilly and patiently. I made many similar calls to your opponents and if you consider myself among them, this is just as well. I am trying to follow this too. That said, I suggest we put this conflict behind and move on towards constructive editing rather than destructive edit conflicts and angry arguing. If you have any suggestions and wishes for me, I am open to hear them. I asked you to change your userpage simply because I saw it unhelpful for editing Wikipedia with others and not because I enjoy or feel like telling you what to do and recite you the policy pages. Perhaps the tone of my message wasn't helpful to achieve the changes I had in mind. Whatever you decide to do with your userpage, is entirely your decision and I simply told you my opinion both in the right and in the wrong ways. Sorry again for the latter. Please consider not responding in rush or perhaps, not responding at all. I will see you soon then in the article's space. I enjoyed and appreciated your contributions to articles. --Irpen 11:30, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Irpen, you're apologizing for the things not worth mentioning, but keeping your unjust haughty attitude towards me (and my edits) as a whole. The recent revert war at History of Christianity in Ukraine is another example. That's why I regard this post of yours as a formal peace attempt, aimed for future justification of your actions. I reserve my right to archive such posts first when the page gets too long :).
I don't trust you Irpen, I don't believe in negotiations with you . I'm not militant, but realistic and refraining from playing "good cop-bad cop" games with you and your ... let's say "Group". If you do need consensus, you have to find reasonable neutral editors from outside your Group and recruit them into editing of the articles in question. I will discuss issues with them.
Oh, and you don't need to praise my contributions since I don't care AT ALL whether you "enjoy" or "appreciate" them. I'm not an attention whore. See my userpage again if you don't get the point yet :(. Thanks, Ukrained 12:01, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

You are totally mistaken. I have a not "unjust and haughty" but very appreciative attitude toward your article edits. I have no problem with your edits and I said that many times. To the contrary and I am sincere saying that. It is up to you to care or not of my opinion on them. Your edits is one thing, but its you entries at talk pages and comments is what I had a problem with. Moreover, I could not help but noticed that you are trying your best to have your edits be separated from your strong views and jumpy attitudes you expressed at talks. You may find me saying that at several talk pages and not once. That said, do as you please. Several times you accused people wrongly in things (due to your suspiciousness) and I took all the time there was to try to explain this to you case after case. Could it be is that part of the problems lies with your attitudes? You continue to mistrust... Very well, you may. As well as spit into a hand stretched to you like you just did. Or mistrust and see a stone I am hiding while trying to reach out to you while in fact there is none. --Irpen 12:37, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, forgot to say regarding the articles at hand. As for Christianity, I tried my best to cool Kazak off and chastised him from provoking this war, as well as the Metro war. After that I cried out loud at talk page for everyone to calm down while everyone was reverting everyone else. The article indeed has some POV problems and I explained at its and metro talk what was making it even worse by these attempts to fix it asap before the other party enters something else. Same goes with metro. Check its metro talk if you are interested. --Irpen 12:40, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rfa

Really appreciate the support. Find on my user page a list of Wiki-links that should prove useful, such as reporting bugs, the sandbox, WP:AN, WP:AN/I for instance. Again, appreciate the support. Martial Law 21:35, 12 March 2006 (UTC) :)

You welcome. Judging by your userpage, you do have an admin potential. Ukrained 22:01, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
Go ahead and make a copy of the Wiki-link list for your own use. Again, appreciate the support. Martial Law 00:03, 13 March 2006 (UTC) :)

Dear Ukrained: Some time ago you volunteered to help me if I got into difficulties. You may be able to help. I have written an article on Nataliia Polonska-Vasylenko and included a short bibliography. Her Ukrainian language 'History of Ukraine' is available on line and should be linked to this article, but I do not know how to do this. Perhaps you could do it for me? You can find it referred to in the wikipedia article on the History of Ukraine. Thanking you in advance...Mike Stoyik 01:29, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] rfa

I wanted to stop by and thank you for your constructive criticism of my RFA. It's helped, and is helping, to improve me as a wikipedian and an editor. I look forward to gaining your support in the future. Until then, keep on keepin on. ⇒ SWATJester Ready Aim Fire! 19:37, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ukraine, English usuage

Dear Ukrained: In re: article on Internal troops, unless I am much mistaken, the English usuage is "the Ukraine" as opposed to "Ukraine". I am a native speaker of English, but American English, so I might be mistaken. I don't really have a dog in this fight, except as someone vaguely interested in Gendarmes/Carabiners/ various regiments. Reply on my talk page if you like, if not, I won't revert my edit.--V. Joe 16:08, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I've just come across this comment, and for the sake of having this documented somewhere I'd just add that here in the United Kingdom, using British English (and in Scottish English for that matter) the correct form for the present sovereign state is very definitely "Ukraine", without "the". The case may perhaps be a little more arguable when people are referring to a body of territory from periods in history, but that would be a rather unscientific usage, without clearly defined borders. – Kieran T (talk) 16:04, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Zalissia and Yasenivtsi

Hello! I am seeking detailed information on the history of the villages of Ясенівці and Залісся (Золочівський район, Lviv 'oblast'). They may be in English, Polish, Ukrainian or Russian. Zalissia was called Zalesie in Polish. Yasenivtsi (also spelled Yasenovtsy, Jasenivci) was spelled Jasienowce, Jasieniowce and Jasionowce in Polish. The only information I've got come from Slownik Geograficzny Krolestwa Polskiego 1880-1902 and Księga Adresowa Polski(=Poland Business Directories) of the years 1891,1926-1930 - there are some population data and some surnames. I have placed these information at uk.wikipedia.org (Залісся, Ясенівці). So far, the largest source on them is there... I would be grateful if you could help me and provide me with some additional information on the history of these villages. These may be some Ukrainian encyclopedias/glossaries/guide-books entries. Word or scanned documents. I am willing to help you in the things you are interested in... I may look up some information for you. Have a nice day! --Riva72 21:38, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

OK, I'll search the sources available to me. Ukrained 08:02, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Propaganda and insidiousness in progress

Bohdane, there's more crap coming out which I need your help with. Take a look at this and this history privatization defended by Irpen (the trap for reasonable editor is set here. Also pay attention to this impudence. Do you, as Ukrainian Wikipedian, feel represented by some Kazak? I guess it was some kind of trick from Muscovites. Please react as soon as you can. Pryvit,AlexPU 18:11, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

OK, Alex, I'll engage the armies of Russia issue, but with litle more tolerant approach. As for Kuban kazak (a.k.a. Sashok), don't pay too much attention to his talk posts. He's a young hooligan rather than an intrigant. Він ще й не таке скаже і напише.
Regarding serious attempts to "represent UA community": they're coming from Irpen, and I'm doing my best to dismiss them. There is a growing group of UA-editors unsatisfied with the POV-pushing and cunning policy of Irpen&Co., such as AndriyK, KPblC, Yakudza and others. Unfortunately, those people are poorly interacting with each other (yet, I hope).
However, beware of simple-perception of the dispute between Russian Group and Lupo. The issue is not entirely political and very practically-sensitive. I'll study the question to formulate my position. Best wishes, Ukrained 08:02, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

I sent you an email. Please check. --Molobo 11:30, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Soviet Partisans

I agree with your proposal, however I am still a bit busy with my exams and I would to contribute some information found here: [1]. Once that is done I look forward to setting up to establishing a joint vision of what the neutral version of the article would be. --Molobo 16:45, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for understanding anyway. What about your reasonable PL colleagues, are they following the article as actively as you are? Ukrained 10:07, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

They would need some mobilisation but I am sure when the final proposition in regards to Polish issues will be made they will engage in active discussion after a bit of mobilisation. --Molobo 11:20, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV in History of Christianity in Ukraine

Gigantic POV additions in article History of Christianity in Ukraine by User:Kuban kazak. Please help to clean up. --Yakudza 14:51, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

If you check the history of the article then today's edits were nothing but copyediting of the existing text that has been there for about months. --Kuban Cossack 14:52, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] UPA

Article. Some anon removes sourced information from the article and puts dubious unsourced imagery in it. I don't want to violate 3RR. Could you check it out. --Molobo 11:20, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Lysy and others are already there, and so will be me. Thanks for alerting. Ukrained

[edit] Sorry- but

Hi, to be fair, I had to block you for 3-revert violation to Ukrainian Insurgent Army. The anon IP's edits were wrong, but an edit war goes no where. The IP is also blocked, the IP for 24 hours, you for three.--Kungfu Adam (talk) 12:33, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi :(((. I was reverting a noted vandal, not a wrong edits user. And I thought reverting vandalism and/or trolling is not counted towards 3RR. I'm going to check the rules right now. If I'm right - you'd better unblock me before I return. If I appear to be wrong, I'll suggest my apologies, If I don't - the admin abuse investigation against you. You see, nobody took care of that vandal for months. And when I payed my time and attention to fighting him - look who gets punished. If this is by rules - I'l start a procedure for modifying those rules. Ukrained 12:46, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Oh, and shouldn't I get warnings before getting blocked? Ukrained 12:48, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, you're right. I unblocked you. You have to realize that I was covering my tail, not taking sides. So I have unblocked you.--Kungfu Adam ([[User_talk:Kungfuadam|talk] ]) 12:54, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm...Ukrained 13:06, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP:AGF

Please assume good faith when dealing with other editors. See Wikipedia:Assume good faith for the guidelines on this. Happy editing!

I believe that These edits of yours and this edit violate WP:AGF and WP:CIVIL. Please be civil and assume good faith in the future.

BTW, I would not label User:Ghirlandajo as a strict anti-Ukrainian editor, nor you as a strict anti-Russian editor. Ghirlandajo sometimes presents things from the Russian nationalistic point of view and you from the Ukrainian nationalistic point of view. It is quite different. The real-life "tsatska" was given to quite a many of heroic decent people as well as to some crooks (this true for all the Soviet awards). I am not aware of any crooks been given the Wikipedia image of this order. Refusing a barnstar from a user is slap to the face and Ghirlandajo certainly did not deserve it. abakharev 01:50, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] In my humble opinion, you are a cunning anti-Russian intrigant

If you continue to go about and post personal attacks like this one, you may get yourself blocked from editing Wikipedia. Take care, Ghirla -трёп- 06:41, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for another threat. Blocked by Mr.Bakharev, I suppose? What I'm sure about is that he wouldn't block you or Kazak for real personal attacks/trollish edits like this one :(((. Anyway, I'd like to see WP formalities fulfilled. So please don't be threatening me on behalf of administrators. Best wishes, Ukrained 09:53, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
How is that edit even my and how is it insulting? --Kuban Cossack 14:20, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Ukrained, what formalities? Your perpetual assumption of bad faith from almost everyone but yourself and a couple of fierce partisans that subscribe to your fringe nationalist views are notorious. The list of such incidents would be full of entries but I simply don't want to waste time compiling it. I could if I wanted you blocked but I actually don't. I know you think otherwise and I am not here to convince you of anything since I gave up on that long ago. However, if you persist with this nonsense you may well end up blocked and your appealing to "formalities" would just look funny. As for your another vicious entry at my talk, attacking not just myself, but another user as well, I will respond to that later. I just have more important things to do first. In the meantime, you will do everyone who you consider your enemy a big favor if you go on like this. People will start forgeting about your useful contributions and will see you as simply a troll, similar to AlexPU who earned this reputation in no time following his return. And your userpage (and his talk page) would easily remind those who forget. --Irpen 19:21, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Blocking me under such a speculative charge as assuming bad faith would be a big problem for your group :). While several pro-RU editors conduct trolling and unsolicited deletions on a daily basis unblocked, who else would I become after your block, if not a martyr? To be clear, I don't want to be blocked, you don't want me either. Ukrained 08:29, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi Ghirla, Hi Ukrained. I don't Ukrained should worry about block from incivilty or something, after all Ghirla wasn't blocked for this [2] And I haven't seen Ukrained behaving in similar way. Cheers. --Molobo 21:41, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please see this discussion

[3] --Molobo 12:11, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] про Крим (On Crimea)

Мої вітання.

Шановний Ukrained, мені здається, що ви надто близько сприймаєте деякі речі. Отже акуратно проаналізуємо всі суперечливі моменти.

Dear Don, I really DO appreciate your command of Ukrainian, but discussions on EN-WP should be conducted in English (with minor term/phraseology-related exceptions). Also take into acount that I have just accused you of breaching WP rules, so this discussion is somewhat official :). You're welcome to contact me in Ukrainian through my e-mail (I won't break confidentiality of mail correspondence unlike our little Sashok :()
OK, I simply thought that Ukrainian will be more comfortable for both of us. А ще через брак часу. Російською/українською я пишу в декілька разів швидче ніж англійською. :) Don Alessandro 11:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Ну і в мене така сама проблема, але... English requirement is purposely for discussing questioned edits/actions, not all topics of course. Ukrained 20:25, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
As a fast and hard rule, never delete suggestions for deletion (like here ). If you disagree with the other editor's suggestion, defend the category/article on the respective voting discussion.
Sorry, I didn't know about that rule. Don Alessandro 11:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
As for the rest of your thoughts, let me comment them below.

1). Ви звинувачуєте мене в тому, що я нібито сприяю сепаратизму і пропагую територіальний розділ України. Не бачу жодних підставин для таких звинувачень. І взагалі, це мене ображує. Я роз’яснюю деяким русофілам, чому ми пишемо назви кримських міст українською, я намагаюся якось сбалансувати російську POV, і от нагорода – я сепаратист.

I explained my accusation of your edit, not you, on your talk. I suppose and hope that trollish/separatist effect of your edits was purely accidental. I refrain from judging your general approach for now. On a side note: yes, I systematically regard the well-known group of editors as the trollish/POV-pushing Russian Group. This is only a result of my long-time studies of their editing approach. And this has nothing to do with you.

2). Якщо я все вірно зрозумів, то вам не подобається той факт, що я включив історію Криму та географію Криму відповідно до категорій History by Country і Geography by Country. Хочу зауважити, що включення в ці категорії не має ніякого відношення до пропаганди сепаратизму чи до визнання відповідної території незалежною. Якщо ви були б більш уважливим, то ви б помітили, що в цих категоріях ми маємо, скажімо, Географію Каталонії та Географію Виргинських Островів в той час як ці території не є незалежними. Але ж через це іспанці не підіймають галас, що от нібито каталонці хочуть виокремлюватися та пропагують сепаратизм. Механізм категорій у вікіпедії призначений для того, щоб зробити зручнішим пошук статей, а не для того, щоб пропагувати щось. Теж саме стосується і Crimean Culture.

I'll study this question more thoroughly. But please remember that non-UA/RU editors may be mistaken or pushing separatist POV-point too. I'll delete Cataluna and Virgin Islands from the "... by country" cat.s if I find no WP conventions stating that non-countries may be treated as countries (can you point me to such conventions?)
Hm... I think that if something is not prohibited it is allowed. Don Alessandro 11:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

3). Навіщо ви вилучили History of Crimea та Geography of Crimea з категорій History of Ukraine та Geography of Ukraine? Якщо Крим є складовою частиною України, то географія Криму є підрозділом географії України. Це ж логічно. Чи ви так не вважаєте? Чи може то ви пропагуєте кримський сепаратизм, вилучаючи географію Криму з географії України? :)))))

Let's study these edits on site. Some of my yesterday changes were unrelated to separatism issue.

4). Категорія Crimean People є цілком природньою і не треба її видаляти. Як варіант назви XXX People ще використовують XXX Society. Можна назвати цю категорію так, якщо вам це більш до вподоби.

Let's name it whatever but not "... people". Again, see CfD discussion for my reasons.
OK, see my reply. Don Alessandro 11:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm already there, Don. Ukrained 08:32, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

І ще така думка… Якщо вам вам (підкреслюю, особисто вам) щось не подобається то це ще не є підставиною називати це тролінгом. Я також могу сказати, що видалення категорії Crimean People – це тролінг, але я цього не робитиму, бо я ще не почув вашої аргументації, може вона мене переконає.

Wrong: I can call anything anyhow on talk pages if providing clear reasons and avoiding clear personal attacks. This is my vision of edits and articles. You're welcome and encouraged to discuss my edits. If I forgot to use I think or in my opinion phrase somewhere, I'll correct myself . By the way, Irpen makes such mistake systematically and I believe intentionally :).

І останнє зауваження. Якщо ви маєте право висловлювати свою точку зору, щодо незалежності Чечні, то інші можуть висловлювати своє бачення майбутнього Криму. Особисто як, як я вже сказав, не належу до сепаратистів, але вони також мають право на свою POV. Треба бути більш толерантним.

Wrong again: the userboxes are purely portraying its owner, not his editing practice. In articles, I never stated that Chechnya is or should be legally independent. Мухи окремо, котлети окремо :). Moreover, you're welcome to contribute an article encyclopedically describing the Crimean separatism. I'll join you in that effort since it is a hot real-life issue now :).
IMHO we have more importatnt topics now. And crimean separatism was a hot real life isue in 1991-1996, but not now. Пенсионерки-витренковцы, машушие флагами, которых по ТВ показывают - это несерьёзно. :))) Don Alessandro 11:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
How optimistic you are... Pensionerky is not a problem at all. But the government cornered by those pensionerkas, that's what the problem is :((.Ukrained 20:25, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

З повагою, Don Alessandro 08:46, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Можу я вас попросити дотримуватися більш дружелюбного тону у спілкуванні. Не слід обзивати людину тролем та вандалом лише тому що вона робить щось, що вам не до вподоби. І оці «This was your very last warning. You're on the edge, mister.» це також виходить за рамки нормального спілкування. Я розумію що часті зустрічі з деякими російськими юзерами може й привели до деякого озлоблення, але ж не слід бросатися на людей.

I'll do my best to be more friendly. I'm really sorry if I insulted you. Хоча ніким я Вас не "обзивав" (лише попереджав). The activity of Russian Group is a very destabilizing issue indeed. Also see above.

Ви маєте саме таки права як і я. І ваша точка зору нічим ні краща за мою, рівно як і моя нічим не краща за вашу. Тут (у вікіпедії) слід не лаятися, а домовлятися. А ви, я бачу, вже готовий почати війну редагувань. Нам війни не потрібні.

Absolutely.

Я зараз тоже можу написати тут, що я вас останній раз попереджую, я якщо ви зі мною не погодитеся, то буду воювати. Але навіщо?! Don Alessandro 09:02, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

OK, let's continue civilized discussion without deletions or evidently non-conventional changes. Respectfully yours as well, Ukrained 10:15, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Admin intervention on DYK talk

Thanks for your message. It looks like you have numerous nationalism related disputes with various editors, although I cannot follow much of it because many messages are not in English. I would remind all parties, yourself included, to remain mindful of WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA. The first link you provided is in contravention of these and I will leave a note to that effect. The second link you provide is merely a statement of opinion that the article is a stub (an opinion I agree with, BTW). Please remember that admins are not referee's here to dish out punishments or take sides in disputes. --Cactus.man ✍ 15:02, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Mr.Cactus, thank you for your answer either. I'll suggest even more thanks after your admin reactions. Answering some of your statements here:
  • I hope you're not taking sides when talking of my (?) numerous nationalism related disputes. I only and exclusively have disputes related to trolling and POV-pushing conducted by the group of editors including Ghirlandajo. It is actually a one big dispute, and it may appear neverending :(((.
  • I would never start or support any disputes (especially nationalism-related ) within DYK talk. Otherwise I would have answered the pernicious RU troll Ghirlandajo right there. Instead I requested your admin intervention. So we can now appreciate and encourage each other's reaction on the incident :)
  • This your thought: admins are not referee's here to dish out punishments or take sides in disputes sounds both confusing and disturbing for me. Hope to discuss it somewhere sometime.
Thank you again for your kind help. Ukrained 21:20, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
P.S. Mr. Cactus, I even more thankful after studying your talk where you communicate with Ghirlandajo very kindly. Sorry for asking your intervention, this will never happen again :(. Ukrained 21:20, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My RfA

Thank you for voting in my recently unsuccessful RfA. I plan on working harder in the coming months so that I have a better chance of becoming an admin in the future. I hope you will consider supporting my if I have another RfA. Thank you for your comments. --digital_me(t/c) 16:01, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your comments in Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship#TodorBozhinov

Please remain civil, even if you feel you're being provoked. ++Lar: t/c 12:27, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear Lar, please provide me with detailed explanations on how exactly I was uncivil in that RfA ASAP. Otherwise I'll start feeling that I'm being provoked by you, an admin :(( Also I'd like to see information on how did community (e.g., bureaucrats) react on RfA voting intimidations conducted by Irpen and his friends. Ukrained 17:54, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
"Well, this is lie and pestering. Irpen is harrassing me in order to influence the voting, or simply to promote himself in such a strange way :)." struck me as bordering on incivility if not actually over the line. There are a large number of comments on this very talk page that seem somewhat borderline as well. I also suggest that you're not giving the appearance of assuming good faith when you say "RfA voting intimidations conducted by Irpen", or "Otherwise I'll start feeling that I'm being provoked by you, an admin :((" for that matter. I note you have a lot of non english on your talk page as well, which I'm not sure is a good practice. I stand by my comments, and suggest that you might want to try for a milder tone in your communication. If you take that as provocation rather than advice then the problem may lie with you rather than me. ++Lar: t/c 19:18, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notice of arbitration

Hi! I filled an arbitration request concerning the usage of "liberation" in WP articles. If you are interested in, please add your name to the list of the involved parties and type your statement.

Please inform everybody who could be interested in.--AndriyK 21:07, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your accusations against User:Grafikm_fr

This message is regarding this edit of yours. We both stated in our user pages that we are native speakers of Russian, so we both know that this Grafik's edit does not add filthy Russian abbreviations as you incorrectly stated.

Please in future avoid making factually incorrect statements and personal attacks against other users.

This is your last warning. The next time you deliberately introduce incorrect information into a page, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia.

This is your last warning. If you continue to make personal attacks, you may be blocked for disruption. abakharev 00:42, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


Mr.Bakharev, I'm aware that blocking me in any cost is your ultimate WP goal :). That's what Irpen and Co. violently lobbied your adminship for. I'm not afraid of your adminresurs. Go on, make me a martyr!
As for Grafik mr, your protection of his trollish actions is lie. Translation of his recent posts from Russian, for whom it may concern:
  • Но всяких националистов оранжевых, фиолетовых и хз еще каких на дух не переношу = I just can't FUCKING tolerate (stand) those orange guys (хз is abbreviated Хуй Знает, roughly meaning my dick knows, see also Four-letter word)
  • Хорошо хоть его на неделькумесячишку забанили, пусть отдохнет... А то он небось притомился, столько писанины разводить... :)) = Expresses joy of AlexPU's block since the latter writes too much here - rather scoffy bad faith comment, apparently meaning AlexPU's NPOV edits to Russia
  • From recent English writings to RfAr (where people are not supposed to troll and disrupt):
  • there was a strong nationalistic uprising on Wikipedia, originating from various Warsaw Pact countries and former Soviet Republics, including but not limited to Ukraine, Poland and Baltic states
  • sending USSR history in the mud to please their new political masters


As anyone can see, you were presenting deliberately incorrect information, not me.
I believe the real reason of your groundless threats was my recent saving of AlexPU's worthy article from your insidious plan to damage (by adding a deliberately incorrect information [4], [5]) and then AfD it. Fortunately, I've averted the trick and the page was not only rescued, but also appeared on main page. Not to mention my civil but persistent counter-campaigning during your RfA.
Mr.Bakharev, I'm neither frightened nor surprised by your pressure. Especially regarding situation in real-life Ukraine. But please keep in mind that you are in close danger of being stripped of your adminship as a possible abuser of tools. You threaten to block me (a user whom you're in several edit disputes with ) while paying no attention to permanent personal attacks conducted by User:Ghirlandajo and User:Kuban kazak (who also co-edit articles with you but also belong to your nation).
Generally, blocking me would be a huge disruption of Wikipedia, a start of real war (a real uprising like your friend states) between Russian Group and the rest of editors. You are not going to win such a war anyway. Ukrained 06:48, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

You saved that article? That's quite a claim! Wow, what else did you save? Also, accusing of an AFD intent despite Alex' clearly stating that his is the opposite is the blatant AGF violation but this is as old as your edit history. Please do not troll or threaten. This is neither new nor scarry. Rather, edit articles. --Irpen 06:59, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't matter who saved the article. The only important thing is who (which admin) was trying to censor it out in a possible attempt of personal revenge/intimidation. By the way, the article was by no means political or anti-Russian, so that wasn't even a political-motivated dispute :)). But thanks for your fresh trollish comment anyway. And take care of your admin because he seems to be crossing the line. Ukrained 07:22, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Ukrained, the article was never under the AfD threat but it was indeed under the threat of non-appearnce on mainpage. It was "saved" by Alex Bakharev and myself, who along with AlexPU (who wrote most of it), wrote the rest and referenced it. As for the rest, it is very simple. If you keep trolling, you will eventually be blocked no matter how loud the noise you make. Please edit rather than troll. --Irpen 07:28, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, As a matter of fact I have missed this хз thing in Grafic's edit. It is a very mild thing but certainly an euphemism for profanity. If you would politely stand this fact I would apologize and remove the warnings. Since you instead preferred to instead to indulge in the trollish and obviously incorrect translation (the correct translation will be I can not stand all these orange (meaning probably the Orange revolution), violet (probably their opponents blue-white or just an opposite to orange) and the Goodness know which else nationalists); and since you indulged yourself in a personal attack against me, I think the warnings are well-deserved and should stay.
FYI, neither me nor Irpen want to prevent you (and AlexPU for that matter) from editing. The only thing we want from you is assumption of good faith of your fellow editor and some minimal civility in your conduct. I do not care much about the civility to me personally but this is my duty as an admin to enforce your civil behavior to the other members of the community.abakharev 07:32, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adding "liberation" to "Words to avoid"

I filled the proposal for Words to avoid. Please find it here. I would be thankfull for your commennts, suggestions and corrections.--AndriyK 16:02, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Good idea! And an interesting rulespage which I've never seen before. My comment is already there. Thanks, Ukrained 20:32, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Slavutych

Just wanted to thank you for your work on the Slavutych article. I'd previously asked a question on the Chernihiv Oblast page about this place, because the Chernihiv Oblast article and the Kiev Oblast template both claimed it was in their Oblast. You've cleared it up nicely, and I see that you have done the same in the Kiev Oblast article (as opposed to the template), so I've copied the fact into the Chernigov Oblast article. – Kieran T (talk | contribs) 21:48, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

No problem at all. Contact me directly in case of further questions. Thanks for developing UA-related articles. Ukrained 22:05, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi Ukrained! Please note that the form "CityName (city)" is obsolete in favor of "CityName, SubdivisionName". For Slavutych the city page should rather be "Slavutych, Ukraine", or "Slavutych, Kiev Oblast". Thanks, MapLover 04:46, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RfC about Irpen's conduct

Hi! We filled a request for comment concerning the conduct of User:Irpen. Your comment is kindly invited.--AndriyK 16:42, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for help

Bohdane, thanks for all your diplomacy and help.AlexPU 05:58, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

На здоров'я. But please be careful from this day. I need your input to articles in the first place. As for public image of our "friends", I should say it has rather flourished from your remarks :(. Watch your language. Oh, and please pay attention to help requests at your talk page. Our neutralizing goal are important, but you desperately need more new friends in this project. Cheers, Ukrained 05:25, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Upcoming Independence Day

August 24th, 2006

Happy Independence Day - Ukraine! З Днем Незалежності України!

--Riurik 04:23, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Declaration of National Unity

Hey, I was wondering if you could help expand the Declaration of National Unity (Універсал Національної Єдності) article. Also, I'd like to start implementing references to it in other articles, but we need a bigger article before we can start referring to that article from others. — Alex (T|C|E) 01:12, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Here you go Alex: my first addition there. However, I won't overestimate this political act. By the way, you may also want to contact AlexPU regarding him as a politics editor more qualified than me. Let me know if you need more help, especially re: Ukrainian economy. Wishes, Ukrained 19:02, 9 September 2006 (UTC)