Talk:Ukrainian Canadian
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[edit] UA embassy?
I would suggest to remove the Ukrainian Embassy from the list of Ukrainian-Canadian Institution. This is an institution of Ukrainian State, not of Ukrainian Canadians. It should be rather in see also list of links or maybe completely removed from the article. Any objections? Irpen 00:37, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)
- Make sense. I think it would be worth mentioning that the Ukrainian Canadian community raised some/most/all of the funds to purchase the building. I'll see if I can find out the specifics. —Michael Z. 2005-03-19 00:46 Z
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- The info on community help in raising funds is already in the embassy article. In no one objects within a couple of days, I will remove the Ukrainian Embassy from this article. It seems to me a more logical solution than to add it to the see also list, but others may prefer the other way. So, I would like to wait. Cheers, Irpen 01:23, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Religion
Article does not cover the issues of religion. The history is rather complicated and would make a fascinating topic. Unfortunately, I don't know much. Anyway, here is one link: http://www.zn.kiev.ua/ie/show/477/45249/ Cheers, --Irpen 06:34, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Nationalism
Shouldn't the often extreme nationalism of the Ukrainian diaspora be covered here, also? Kazak 06:28, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] wrong information
Most of the areas from which Ukrainians came from to Canada do not closely resemble the Canadian prairies. Ukraine is known as the breadbasket of Europe and has a more hospitable and varied climate than the Canadian prairies.
Ukrainians came to Canada to escape oppression, including from the Communists, with the promise that if they could clear a specified area of land within a year, they could homestead and own that land. Owning land in Ukraine under such rulers as Russia was unusual.
The Canadian government advertised in places such as Ukraine to lure emigrants to fill the land as hard-working homesteaders and so build its vision of a nation. Most Ukrainian-Canadians were not Communists. Most were anti-Communists. Communists, especially under such rulers as Stalin, starved millions of Ukrainians to death. Many Ukrainians are quite conservative, but certainly those who were struggling to survive in the prairies acted as many farming-oriented groups have, and worked to help each other by striving for the creation of social safety nets, such as medical aid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.5.22.91 (talk • contribs)
[edit] move this to "Ukrainian Canadians"
Move from Ukrainian Canadian to Ukrainian Canadians (over redirect) is suggested for obvious reasons, esp. in view of the new Canadian Ukrainian article devoted to the language dialect. This seems non-controversial enough and unless someone would object, we could just move it without the WP:RM listing. --Irpen 08:08, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
- I believe it should stay at Ukrainian Canadian. This article should be about more than just the people, but various aspects of Ukrainian Canadiana. For example, if you look at the the mission of the Centre for Ukrainian Canadian Studies, it is to, "create, preserve and communicate knowledge relating to Ukrainian Canadian culture and scholarship." [1]. I know it is a very subtle difference, but I would prefer that the title stay as is. I have been meaning to get back to this page to expand the institutional and religion aspect of things. Canada has a unique history as it relates to the Ukrainian culture. -- JamesTeterenko 17:59, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] List of Famous People
I'm going to work on improving (and shortening) the list. Fist off Eugene Melnyk is listed here, but his article says he is a Jewish-Canadian, and doesn't say anything about being Ukrainian. William Shatner is also listed but again is classified as a Jewish-Canadian. Also Jordin Tootoo’s article only mentions his Inuit ancestry, and nothing about being Ukrainian. Does anyone have any more info on this? I think Melnyk and Shatner may be descended from Jews from Ukraine, but the term "Ukrainian Canadian" usually refers to people who are ethnically Ukrainian, rather than people from other backgrounds that are from the territory of Ukraine. Does anyone know how they self-identify? And we need evidence on the claim Tootoo’s mother is Ukrainian. Anyway I'm not opposed to putting them in the Category of Ukrainian Canadians, but they may not be the strongest example to put on the main page, until we have more info.
I’m also I little weary of putting Lawrence Senkiw, Ed Werenich, or Lubomyr Luciuk on the list until they have articles. I mean I’m Ukrainian Canadian too, but I don’t belong on the list because I’m not famous. I’m not saying these people shouldn’t eventually be on the list, just not yet. If enough people know about them they should get articles first. Any Comments?
Hopefully, there will be plenty of changes to come on this article, since I think it is a good start but in some areas is quite lacking. Kevlar67 10:24, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- See Talk:Jordin Tootoo for evidence of his mother being of Ukrainian descent. -- JamesTeterenko 16:46, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
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- Thankyou for the help. Kevlar67 20:02, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Major Changes
Okay, I've created a bunch of new sections, added some more explaination and added many links. I think it is 1000x times better now but still has a way to go. Anyone else have any ideas? Kevlar67 00:54, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
- Through a little quick searching I've managed to get our category "Ukrainian Canadians" up from about 50 names, to almost 80. The next thing that might have to happen is to scrap the list the bottom of this page, shorten it to only the most famous / important (10 or less), or move it to a seperate page. There's no point in have an 80 name list at the end of this article, and there's no point in having the current list since it doesn't seem to represent the most famous or important. Kevlar67 19:24, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Good work. I agree about the list. I guess it has an advantage of short descriptions which the category doesn't so it could be shuffled to a separate page.
Shatner is a questionable entry for this list. —Michael Z. 2006-03-24 22:13 Z
- Yeah, especially if we get more and more people added, it would be nice to have a full list which could give info like occupation, age, birplace, etc. So that if you're looking to write an article on Ukrainian-Canadian writers or painters you'd know where to look. And yeah, I think Shatner is questionable at best. I think the article should probably mention that this is list of ethnic Ukrainians, but that many of, (if not the majority) of today's Jewish-Canadians (and many Romanian-, Polish-, and German-Canadians) are decended from people from the territory of modern Ukraine. Kevlar67 00:33, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
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- Good point. I think there may be Ukrainian Jews and others who it makes sense to leave in the broadly-defined category:Ukrainian Canadians, but people should have some connection to the ethno-cultural identity to belong in the list in this article. —Michael Z. 2006-03-26 23:48 Z
[edit] Image?
If you can use it, there's a fairly nice old image of the Ukrainian orchestra and drama club in Edmonton, circa 1924, over at Library and Archives Canada. It's certainly PD. -- TheMightyQuill 16:37, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] New infox box, nav box
They are great but I don't like the fact that all our representative Ukrainian Canadians are male politicians. There are plenty of other famous ukes out there. Kevlar67 03:27, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] List: merge into list of Ukrainians
The list is still growing, naturally. A long list dilutes the article and threatens to become listcruft. It should be pared right down or split off into a stand-alone list.
Wikipedia:Embedded list is specific about lists in articles, encouraging their removal: "lists of links, which are most useful for browsing subject areas, should usually have their own entries: see Wikipedia:Lists (stand-alone lists) for detail. In an article, significant items should be mentioned naturally within the text rather than merely listed".
Wikipedia:Lists says that lists are for information, navigation, or development:
- The annotations add a bit of information, but the list list could have more information if it were split off and expanded
- Navigation is already better served by category:Ukrainian Canadians
- Development is only served by red links to encourage new articles—this would also be better served by a stand-alone list
The guideline also states "lists should always include unambiguous statements of membership criteria based on definitions made by reputable sources." The only criteria stated is "famous", which is very subjective.
But we also already have a list of Ukrainians. We don't need to proliferate more lists with duplicate information.
I suggest we remove the list from this article, but merge its content, including annotations and status as Ukrainian-Canadian, into the list of Ukrainians. —Michael Z. 2007-08-15 19:57 Z
- Thoroughly support. I am not opposed to the idea of compiling lists, but I object against them being in good articles for exact same reason. One thing, is to say that some obscure town in fact is the home of 3-5 prominent figures, and quite another thing is List of people named John. I personally removed ""List of Kievans", List of Leopolitans and List of famous Russians from Ukraine from the articles and I support any similar action elsewhere. --Irpen 23:58, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Other ethnic groups?
The lead says: "Ukrainian Canadian less often refers to people of other ethnic groups whose ancestors came from the territory of modern Ukraine or other Ukrainian-majority area, such as ethnic Germans or Jews." Is Ukrainian Canadian actually used to refer to other ethnicities? This seems unlikely. If so, can it be sourced? Ostap 03:07, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- I will remove it. Ostap 23:56, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
