Portal:Ukraine/Ukraine-related Wikipedia notice board

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Topics in archived closed issues

  1. "Old Ruthenia" fictitious article
  2. Vintage postcards
  3. Are there reasons not to move Khersones to Chersonesos?
  4. Ukrainian language, percentage of speakers
  5. A favour
  6. Aleksandra Lisowska
  7. Cossack and post-revolution times in History of Ukraine
  8. New template and category "uk-4" (near-native)
  9. Announcement of behalf of user:AndriyK

Contents

[edit] URGENT ANNOUNCEMENT

[edit] Wikipedia:Peer review/Kiev/archive1

I requested Peer review for Kiev. Sashazlv 05:09, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bringing publicity to Ukrainian topics

I think we should change the priorities. The problem is that there are too few people who contribute to "Ukrainian articles" on a more or less systematic basis. And few people seem to be interested in such articles, in general. We kind of keep creating stubs and seldom update or expand them. Those, who, by chance, get to such a stub will be frustrated and may never come back to any "Ukrainian article". First impression does matter a lot.

Here's a possible solution: 1. Switch effort from quantity to quality. 2. Try a few PR techniques. A good idea may be to try to push Kiev to an FA status.

This whole thing is a voluntary project. So, the only way to make people work is to make them interested. I hope quality + some PR would work out.

What do you think? Sashazlv 04:41, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree that UA articles as featured at front page will bring publicity and may bring people to topics. Just for the particality reasons, we have to choose not among the most worthy topics, but among the better shaped article. I am not sure, Kiev is the one, but it is one from a rather small pool.
I think also a good idea is to attract more attention from our neighbors. Just look at the coverage of RU- and PL-related topics (I humbly try to participate, with at Russia portal and (very little) at Wikipedia talk:Polish Wikipedians' notice board). There are editors there with an exceptional commitment and quality of contributions. I will keep campaigning there for more attention to UA topics and will try some new approaches. :) --Irpen 07:54, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

I'd like to say something here in response to a very understandable remark by Sasha at Talk:Judicial system of Ukraine "Anyway, my long-term impression is that nobody would be interested. So, don't waste your time."

As for using our time most efficiently, I agree with Sasha that the best thing would be to bring more interest to Ukrainian topics by generating 2-3 more Featured Articles. I think Kiev, History of Kiev, Orange Revolution could be developed to WP:FA status. Until recently, the History of Ukrainian language could be spun off from the Ukrainian language article and developed to FA within a reasonable effort. Right now, much of material was deleted from there by AndriyK and it needs to be restored first but it is doable. Actually, I promise to do it myself once this crazy arbitratrion is over. Another exciting topic with a reasonable amount of material already in is History of Christianity in Ukraine that used to be my pet article before I realized I cannot possibly write it on my own. Could we set aside some time this winter, guys? I am sure we could find others to help us! --Irpen 03:40, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Can you compile a full list of such potential articles? If you/we decide to expand something into an FA, its better to pick an article that is not too contentious. Otherwise, there's a risk it may fall short of formal FA criteria (e.g., an article under an on-going edit war). For that reason, I see problems with Orange Revolution and History of Christianity. Also, you/we should pick exactly one article, so as not to split scarce effort. Sashazlv 05:20, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
I agree with Sasha regarding the contentiousness. History of Christianity... is definitely a bad choice. I would say Kiev, if it wasn't actually Kyiv :)). I mean it is a predominantly geography/economics-related article. Some other interesting city/town? May it could be Fastiv, for example? Another approach is a politics-(relatively)-free page. A technical one? (Antonov seems to be a high-tech symbol of Ukraine... Irpen, do all articles listed by me fit the FA criteria of importance, size, topic/subject etc.? Ukrained 19:09, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I've done it a while ago at the Portal's front page. Check the "Things you can do" window. I created a category: "Articles with Featured Article Candidate's status within reach". We all, myself included, should check the portlal more often. Not just its notice boards :). I picked articles based on their relative saturation with factual info. Any Ukrainian topic is contentious. Perhaps, Ukrainian Baroque then? But I am afraid, there are not enough art specialists between us. "History of UA L", would make a great article and a unique too, as Michael pointed out earlier, since most other language history articles provide history of linguistic development, while ours provides the reflection of political history of the nation on the language. But it is contentous of course. Well, even History of Kiev is contentious for some zealots and there are some and there will be more. In any case, please add articles to the Portal's window of potential WP:FAC. --Irpen 05:32, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

BTW, we shouldn't be too pessimistic because WP is developing as a whole regardless Ukrainian pages, - but possibly increasing demand for the. E.g., in Ukraine, the influential and growing [Glavred www.glavred.info] informs on WP inner developments systematically, and [Korrespondent www.korrespondent.net] is occasionally citing the WP pages in their news. Ukrained 19:27, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
The following moved from Talk:Judicial system of Ukraine:
I would say making Kiev a featured article. It's less likely to fall prey to political disagreements -- if history section is kept short. I submitted it for peer review about half a year ago, but it died out at that point. Please, cross-post this on portal talk and add your comments. Sashazlv 23:29, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Exactly, history sections in both Kiev and Ukraine (and few other big articles) should be kept short. They became freaking impossible to edit and preview! If we only could reach an agreement... And let's keep developing/"mainarticling" other sections of Kiev. Ukrained 12:17, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Starobielsk

The article needs urgent attention. Is it really a village? Is it near Kharkov? What about the spelling? --Ghirlandajo

I did a quick search and found out some amazingly interesting info about this place. I will start working on it and will post the refs at talk page. Thanks, Ghirlandajo, for bringing this up. --Irpen 22:31, August 8, 2005 (UTC)
Please see Talk:Starobielsk. --Irpen 03:34, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Attorney General / Prosecutor General

I couldn't find an article about the Office of the General Prosecutor of Ukraine (Генеральна прокуратура України), or whatever translation you prefer. If it exists under a different name, please, post it below. Sashazlv 04:17, 29 July 2005 (UTC) Lest I forget, external link is: [1].

[edit] Template for links to Zerkalo Nedeli articles

I think it would be useful to make a template for the references to ZN articles. The paper covers a broad array of topics, from current events and remote history. It is bi-/tri- lingual and searchable back to 1995. Something like:

{{ZNref|articlename|Month|Year|ru-link|ua-link|en-link(if any)}}

to bring:

"Article name" in Zerkalo Nedeli (the Mirror Weekly), Month, Year, available online in [linkru Russian] and [linkua Ukrainian].

Is there anyone with experience making templates? I made several but messed up big time. Just a suggestion. --Irpen 06:56, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Done Template:Zerkalo Nedeli. —dima/s-ko/ 00:25, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New PD-tag as per the UA law below

As per the law below, I just created a tag {{PD-UA-Exempt}} which displays the following message:

According to the Article 10 of the Law of Ukraine on Copyright and Related rights this work is in the public domain within Ukraine and possibly in other jurisdictions because it is one of the following:
  • (a) daily news or details of current events that constitute regular press information;
  • (b) works of folk art (folklore);
  • (c) official documents of a political, legislative or administrative nature (laws, decrees, resolutions, court awards, State standards, etc.) issued by government authorities within their powers, and official translations thereof;
  • (d) State symbols of Ukraine, government awards; symbols and signs of government authorities, the Armed Forces of Ukraine and other military formations; symbols of territorial communities; symbols and signs of enterprises, institutions and organizations;
  • (e) bank notes;
  • (f) transport schedules, TV and radio broadcast schedules, telephone directories and other similar databases that do not meet the originality criteria and to which the sui generis right (a particular or special right) is applicable.
Note that drafts of anything that falls under sections (d) and (e), unless officially approved are under copyright.

I also placed a copy of this tag to commons and started to tag images both there and in enwiki. You are welcome! :) --Irpen 04:41, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

I was about to do the same, but you beat me to it. One, I tagged all of the Hero of Ukraine images with that tag. Two, check your email inbox and three, if someone can help with some photos of people wearing the title, we can use one or two. Most of the images from Kuchma's era were deleted from his website, replaced with photos of Yushchenko. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 04:44, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ukrainian copyright law's very important excemption

Prompted by Zscout370's request at my talk page I checked for what UA law says on this issue. UA-version of the law is easy to google, but an English version is harder to find and I think the links below are very useful. Anyway, there are a couple of sites that give full text of the 2001 law on copyright in English. The most "official looking" is this pdf file at CIPR's site. The HTML version is available at this fun site but the text is the same. The relevant text from the law is in the PD-UA-exempt tag above, now created both in enwiki and in commons.

Here is the excerpt from the law:

Objects Not Covered by Protection

10. The following items shall not be objects of copyright:
(a) daily news or details of current events that constitute regular press information;
(b) works of folk art (folklore);
(c) official documents of a political, legislative or administrative nature (laws, decrees, resolutions, court awards, State standards, etc.) issued by government authorities within their powers, and official translations thereof;
(d) State symbols of Ukraine, government awards (in original text "nagorody", so yes, it includes orders and medals! -Irpen); symbols and signs of government authorities, the Armed Forces of Ukraine and other military formations (should include all insignia, right? -Irpen); symbols of territorial communities (original "terrytorial'nyh gromad", so not only State but local CoA's, I assume. -Irpen); symbols and signs of enterprises, institutions and organizations (I would say it includes logos, including Dinamo Kiev :) -Irpen);
(e) bank notes;
(f) transport schedules, TV and radio broadcast schedules, telephone directories and other similar databases that do not meet the originality criteria and to which the sui generis right (a particular or special right) is applicable.

The drafts of the official symbols and signs specified in points (d) and (e) of part 1 of this Article shall, prior to their official approval, be regarded as works and shall be protected pursuant to this Law.

This should make life easier, shouldn't it? Cheers, -Irpen 00:52, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

Besides, similar tag {{PD-RU-exempt}} is created based on the similar RU-law. It is both in commons and enwiki. The tag has a reference to the official text of the Russian Law I pasted to Wikisource. Unfortunately, I was not able to paste an UA-law in English to Wikisource. For one, the RU-law text (English version) is published on RU-gov site (there is not in gov-ua), and the links I found are correct but not official. Secondly, the version of ru-law could be pasted as is, without adding wikimarkup, to produce still reasonable text. If anyone wants to take it upon themselves, you're all welcome.

And finally, there are other permitted uses in both RU- and UA-laws. Such as "reproduction of pieces that are open to public access anyway", etc. Do we need another tag for such? Or common PD and fairuse tags would suffice? Regards, --Irpen 17:53, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

We already have a template for photos taken at or before 1973, called PD-USSR. From 1974-1991, I am not sure about the copyright for those photos. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 20:16, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
Quite interesting, actually, because I just uploaded a photo that was taken in the 80s. I marked it as PD but not sure if it's the best choice. -- mno 20:23, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Rus' articles' confusion

Please look at the note I just posted at Wikipedia talk:Russian Wikipedians' notice board#Rus' articles and respond there, if you would like to share your opinion on this. Thanks! -Irpen 00:41, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Woah! (Hero of Ukraine)

I've been away for a week, and missed my user page when catching up, yesterday. By dumb luck, I just found the medal you awarded me. What a great surprise. Thanks so much! —Michael Z. 2005-07-27 19:34 Z

 :). BTW, Zscout370, who recently created a Hero of Ukraine and the List of heroes of Ukraine articles (both being developed now, mostly by him) is aware of this. I don't know whether he will add this recipient to the list article. ;) --Irpen 20:31, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Eastern-European cooperation proposal

Crossposted to: Wikipedia talk:Polish Wikipedians' notice board, Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Russia/Russia-related Wikipedia notice board, Wikipedia talk:Wikiportal/Belarus, Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Ukraine/Ukraine-related Wikipedia notice board

I'd like to propose that Polish, Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian (and anybody else who wants to join, you will excuse me if I won't list everyone here, I tried to reach everybody on the Wikipedia:Regional notice boards) Wikipedians join forces and try together to promote some articles to FA, instead of (what seems to be more common, unfortunately) fighting over which name should go first and similar petty issues :>

In this spirit I invite you all to comment on Polish-Muscovy War (1605-1618), an article I (mostly, wiki being wiki) have written over the past few months. It can definetly benefit from introducing Russian/English spelling of some names/people that I added knowing only Polish spelling, adjusting my Polish POV and adding more info from Russian/other sources I have no access to. I believe this article is fairly comprehensive, and we can make it reach FA. In few days I will submit it to Peer Review, and if there are no disputes on PR/article's talk page I will submit it to FA in over a week.

Once again, I invite your comments and edits, and hope this will be the first of many similar projects that proves we can work on together, to show our Eastern European history and culture to English-speaking world, most of whom unfortunately seem never to heard about Muscovy of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. If you like this initative. For now, I invite everybody to copy their replies to my talk page; if there is enough interest, perhaps we can create a serparate page to discuss it (Wikiproject:Eastern Europe or sth like this). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 17:35, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

The idea is now located at User:Zscout370/Wikiproject:Eastern Europe. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 23:44, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cuisine

On this vein, can someone explain why we don't have a consistant policy for articles on the related cuisines of East European peoples? Why is it that pyrohy are covered by one article that includes all national varieties, but kovbasa is broken into different articles for Polish and Ukrainian types, and the same with pysanka? Should we try to have a standard or this type of thing or work on a case by case basis? Kevlar67 19:29, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Excellent questions. Maybe we should start a mini-project to discuss this at Category talk:Slavic cuisine or Talk:Eastern European cuisine. I'm adding these to my watchlist. —Michael Z. 2006-02-04 22:16 Z
There is alreay a stub type page at Eastern European cuisine but there is very little there right now, and no discussion of the issue I'm talking about. Kevlar67 01:54, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kamianets-Podilskyi

On the issue of East European cooperation, could we get some editors look at the recent history and talk page of Kamianets-Podilskyi and respond there or do something with the article? Thanks! --Irpen 22:17, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of heroes of Ukraine

The list is now complete. It was a months' work of putting together 146 names. You are welcome to stop by and check spelling. Sashazlv 04:36, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Sasha, thumbs up and a Barnstar! --Irpen 07:18, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Prometheism

  • Need your help on Międzymorze. I tried to English it as Polish imperialism, but was stymied by Polish editors. In the wikireality, the Russian colonization of Siberia is dubbed imperialism, but the Polish ambitions to extend their territory from one sea to another are not. What do you guys think? --Ghirlandajo 18:40, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
The problem is that you so far failed to provide any evidence that by allying himself with Petlura, Latvia and Hungary Piłsudski planned to expand Polish territory. Also, as usually you forgot to use the talk page... Halibutt 23:13, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
If I don't discuss my edits for hours on the talk pages, that;s only because I come here to edit and not to chatter. I pointed out on the relevant talk page that Pilsudski's words were belied by his actions. IMHO his aggression against Russia, his annexation of the Lithuanian capital, lost war against Czechs, and landing operation in the free city of Danzig are a clear indication of what he had in mind. It seems to me weird to start building a federation with, say, Lithuania by occupying its capital. You Poles think such approach towards your neighbours perfectly normal, as far as I can see. Now my hands are tied with other articles, but sometime later I plan to contribute a couple of articles on Polish history, to make the approach a bit more NPOV. Clearly, we need the details on the non-aggression pact of Poland with Hitler, about Polish-German partitioning of Czecholovakia in 1938, about the massacre of 60,000 Soviet prisoners of war in Pilsudski's gulags, etc, etc. --Ghirlandajo 01:32, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
Dear Ghirlandajo, please reserve your own judgement for your blog or your posting to a political forum.
On the other hand, if you can provide referencies to creadible sources considering Pilsudski's plans as "imperialism", feel free to add this information along with all other POVs.
Renaming the whole article as "Polish imperialism" would mean pushing a single POV, which is against the Wikipedia policies.--AndriyK 09:49, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, Ghirlandajo, but I'll have to aggree with AndriyK on this one. Unless you can provide sources, this is but your own interpretation of history. Apparently for you being attacked by a neighbour is also a sign of Imperialism (as in the case of Cieszyn Silesia), same with the outbreak of the Polish-Bolshevik War (please provide evidence on who was the attacker there). Also, take a look at the article you moved and the article on Central Lithuania for the reasons of the conflict over what-is-now Vilnius. And why Lithuania refused to ally herself with Poland and chose the Bolsheviks instead.
Also, as to the Piłsudski's gulags - I really await your contributions. Last year I read all three monographies on the topic (two Polish and one Russian) and I wonder if you'll be able to find any evidence outside of the famous YMCA report in which the official quuted that the prisoners were brutally massacred by the Polish guards, in the result one prisoner was killed. Oh my, if only WWII consisted only of such massacres... Halibutt 14:02, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Geographic naming

see Wikipedia:Naming conventions/Geographic names


[edit] Oleksandr Moroz

The article on Oleksandr Moroz was substantially expanded. Please, check it for POVs. Sashazlv 21:29, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Polish invasion of Russia

I'm looking for your advice on what to do with the recently created Polish invasion of Russia redirect to Polish-Soviet War. The redirect was created by a Russian editor for reasons that are explained in its talk page. Now that it is created, we have to do something with it. I believe that the current redirect is quite inappropriate as while it may be disputed who invaded whom, most of the operations in 1918-1920 took part on soil of Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania and Poland but not Russia. As the result of the war mostly defined the fate of Ukraine for the next years, I'm interested in Ukraininan opinion about this name. --Lysy (talk) 15:40, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

There is another though closely related discussion on Talk:Russo-Polish War. --Ghirlandajo 17:13, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
Please contribute there, so that this redirect page may become eligible for inclusion in the Wikipedia:Lamest edit wars ever. —Michael Z. 2005-11-21 16:51 Z
Why, is there any edit war going on there ? --Lysy (talk) 18:21, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
Well why do you think I was asking for contributions? —Michael Z. 2005-11-21 21:26 Z
If anything it should be a disambig, not a redirect. A POVed term, which should not be used much in a articlespace, but I don't see much harm in lettign the redirect be.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 02:43, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Red Ruthenia

Can anybody add Ukrainian spellings to counterbalance the Polish ones in the article on Red Rus? --Ghirlandajo 13:58, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Zakarpacie, Koriatowicz

Two questions: what is the correct English name for Zakarpacie? A redirect would be appreciated. Second - a fellow Wikipedian asked me about Koriatowicz family, but I couldn't find that much on Polish or English sites. Perhaps knowledge of Ukrainian and Russian languages may allow you to help him more?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 02:41, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

See Transcarpathia, Mukacheve, and my edits on Iuga of Moldavia. Koriatovich was Jury's patronimic: he was the son of Gedimin's son Koriat. As for the Kurcewicz family, it has nothing to do with Koriat in general and this issue in particular. --Ghirlandajo 12:18, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
More on Kurcewicz. Although admittedly of Gediminid stock, their early history is painfully obscure and their progenitor cannot be established with any degree of certainty. Like so many Gediminid families (e.g., Sangusko-Lubartowicz), they later assumed a false patronimic, claiming descent from a well-known early Gedimind potentate. Even if Gediminds, Princes Kurcewicz descended not from Koriat but rather from one of his obscure cousins, probably one of Narymunt's sons. --Ghirlandajo 12:22, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Template: User Ukraine

Template: User Ukraine has just been created. Feel free to edit it so that it looks nicer, and I encourage all Ukrainian Wikipedians to add the template to their user pages.--Pecher 08:12, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ukrainian military stuff

I think we have a total disorder in the whole Category:Military of Ukraine. I started cleaning up the mess, but intensive help needed. Of course it is not a priority for Ukraine-editors, but the mess is awful... E.g., take a look at Category:Military equipment of Ukraine: aren't we waisting the resources of WP server with such a deep and confused branching? Ukrained 23:33, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

I got rid of all the empty categories for naval ships, and moved Varyag up two or three levels. I suppose someone created these categories to mirror the organization in other countries' categories, but for now they are just confusing; they can be restored as more ship articles are created. —Michael Z. 2005-12-30 23:47 Z
Great, Michael, thank you for joining! If not informing readers enough on UA military, let's at least not mislead them. BTW, I forgot to explain some of my edits to UAF: their WEbsite is down, so I've deleted the link at all. Ukrained 00:05, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Regions in Ukraine

Dear colleagues, I received the following request:

We must make english version of uk:Категорія:Райони України, but what as name we make? Is there any portal pages about Ukraine? (confused english) --Sheynhertzגעשׁ״ך 23:19, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Do we have such a category here? Cheers. ←Humus sapiens←ну? 09:40, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually that category is for districts of Ukraine (districts are administrative subdivisions of oblast), not regions in the geographical sense. Also, I always thought regions to be appropriate translations of Ukrainian oblast. In either case, I doubt that the English wiki is detailed enough to have articles on Ukrainian districts (raions) to need a category for that. --Berkut 10:11, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
There is an article on Regions of Ukraine, which links to many articles which belong to various categories, including Category:Regions of Ukraine. —Michael Z. 2006-01-5 15:02 Z

BTW, the category mentioned by Michael is I think unnecessary and duplicating both the Category:Subdivisions of Ukraine and Category:Ukrainian historical regions. Shouldn't we remove it in order to clean-up the Wikiservers? Ukrained 21:35, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it looks to me that Category:Ukrainian historical regions could be merged into its relatively empty parent, Category:Regions of Ukraine, since there isn't much distinction between the two. —Michael Z. 2006-01-7 23:45 Z

[edit] Pattern for the cities

Is anybody interested with this? Ukrained 21:35, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Great! I am all for consistency! And, btw, for the sake of consistency and common sense my next proposal. ==Irpen 22:34, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Institutes of higher education in Ukraine

Dear all, I have thought to bring this up for a while and only now got to it. Ukraine has several established institutions of higher education and their coverage is pitiful. We should standartize that and I suggest to start with names. Putting the Kiv/Kyiv-Mogila/Mohyla-Academy aside for now (can we do that please), I suggest that we have the school articles named by the name the institutions were and are best known. There were lots of renaming activity not just in WP but also in Ukraine. At certain point Pedagogical, Kharch-Prom institutes, etc. and even some tekhnikums restyled themsleves "universities". OTOH, some very well-known and respected schools also renamed itslef, like Kiev or Odessa Polytechnic. Also, Kiev University was known as St. Vladimir's in RU epire, KGU in Soviet times (along with the Krasonyarsk one) and "National Taras Shevchenko University of Kyiv" now. These all names are varieties of one name under which the insitution was known as Kiev University which never changed.

Similarly the famous "Kiev Polytechnic Institute" may have been restyled to National Technical University "Kyiv Polytechnic Institute" but it still is known as Kiev Polytechnic Insitute and so should the article be called. Other respected Polytechnics such as Odessa, Lviv, Kharkiv might have also changed to "Universities" (I know for a fact that some did). Let's just call them Polytechnics. Similarly Kharkiv Institue of Radio Electronics, renamed itself into some University.

What do you people think about it?. --Irpen 22:34, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

In line with the proposal above and with the lack of feedback, I created the article on Chernivtsi University under a simplified title rather than "Yuriy Fedkovych Chernivtsi National University". Since no one is disagreeing, may I take it that we can move the article? My proposed moves are:

The articles whose names already satisfy the proposed rule are:

Same rule will be applied to the future articles. Please note that this proposal only concerns the titles of the articles. We sill still introduce the official and historic names in the first line. Any thoughts? --Irpen 05:22, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for taking on this thankless task, and good work. Sensible organization and naming helps everyone find the right articles and know when they are talking about the same thing. I've completed the move to Kiev University, which required deleting a redirect page with insignificant history. Cheers. —Michael Z. 2006-01-19 05:22 Z
This is the official term used notation for the KNUCA: Kyiv National University of Construction and Architecture. The old one (invalid) name is Kiev Civil Engineering Institute. --Christoph Wagener 16:15, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
This is incorrect move. There are more then one university in all Kiev, Lviv and Odessa (and others). The way current articles are named - this can create confusion. The best way is to create disambiguation page on 'City University' that will list all universities (including defunct) in city with most commonly used one (often oldest) listed first and in bold. --TAG 18:55, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean that someone saying Odessa University may actually mean one of several institutions? I know that this is not the case for Kiev. One saying Kiev University is always referring to Kiev National T. Shevchenko University and not KMA, Polytech or any other institution. --Irpen 19:30, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes. While most-often it's Mechnikov university - it's easy to get tricked by Odessa State Medical University, Odessa State Polytechnic University, Odessa State Environmental University, Odessa State Economical University and others. Things actually even worse - as there are Odessa National Maritime University. Dispute people from Kiev get used refer to Shevchenko university by this shortcut - it's common that non-Kiev people ask clarifying questions on that specific university is actually referred. Sometimes actual university can be based on person specialization and city name is simply location there person was studying. --TAG 20:09, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, please take a look at how I just did it at the Kiev University and Kiev University (disambiguation). If you think that's adequate, we can implement the same solution for Odessa as well as other cities. --Irpen 21:45, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. That's fine for me. --TAG 09:56, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Correction - please take a look on Category:Universities in Ukraine - using short name for article (and not redirect) make usage of confusing short name in categories. --TAG 13:45, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

This is where we disagree. The whole issue came into prominence because the term "University" has been significantly distorted in post-Soviet countries due to the hectic renaming spree where each higher education institution renamed itself into a University while the institution's structures remaining unchanged. By the common definition, the University is "an institution of higher education and research, which grants academic degrees at all levels (bachelor, master, and doctorate) in a variety of subjects." As you may well know, this definition does not apply to every institute of higher education in Ukraine that now calls itself "a University". Obviously the Mechnikov University qualifies by the breadth of the studies it offers but the Maritime University does not. In no way this implied that the Maritime University, as well as many other technical institutions of higher education in Ukraine with a rich and proud history of academic accomplishment are somehow inferior. Kiev, Odessa, Lviv and many other Polytechnics are very respected institutions. Nevertheless, they remain mostly technically oriented while the University has to by definition cover both technical and humanitarian fields of studies. That's why we use historic names of these institutions, under which they are still most commonly referred to to this date, for the article titles, but we give the full current official name within the article's text.

You raised a valid point about the disambiguation and I think the way it is done for Kiev University addresses the issue. In an unlikely case someone browsing the category:Universities in Ukraine looking for Kiev Polytechnic or Kyiv-Mohyla Academy clicks on the Kiev University that would lead the reader to the Shevchenko University, that person would immediately see the dab link at the top. But in all honesty, this is rather unlikely to happen. If all three: the KU, KPI and KMA are all listed in one cat, the reader would likely correctly identify what he is looking for.

While at it, I think it is a good idea to rename Category:Universities in Ukraine to Category:Institutes of higher education in Ukraine. The reason is that if the Pedagogical or Kharch-Prom institute in one city has renamed itself into a "University" but its counterpart in another city did not, this is no reason why they should still not be in the same category. Especially since we have now just a handful of the articles in the category, keeping them all together would add clarity and would not cause any confusion. --Irpen 18:28, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template: User DinamoKiev

Template: User DinamoKiev has just been created. Feel free to fix it or edit it so that it looks better. --DDima 21:39, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lodomeria

I suggest you to fix this silly situation with articles Lodomeria vs. Volodymyr-Volynskyi /Volodymyr-Volynia principality. mikka (t) 02:36, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Cities in Ukraine and Category:Towns in Ukraine

What is a rationale for two cats that duplicate each other? Can anybody articulate a difference between city and town? It's all very subjective imho. Suppose a new editor starts the article about Chartorysk - how should he know which cat should be preferred? --Ghirla | talk 09:50, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Something like Category:Cities and towns in Ukraine would be great. But someone should create a bot for changing: we have over 150 cities & towns. Ukrained 12:48, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
This was discussed briefly at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ukrainian_subdivisions#Towns vs. cities. Urban centres include city (misto), SMT (selyshche mis’koho typu, 'townlet', or perhaps 'town' to use a more common term), and village (selo). Would it make sense to define these as corresponding to Category:Cities in Ukraine, Category:Towns in Ukraine, and Category:Villages in Ukraine? —Michael Z. 2006-02-15 18:37 Z
I recenty moved a few cities/towns between the two categories. Whatever is classified as misto according to 2001 Ukrainian census I put into category Cities in Ukraine. The rest are in the category Towns in Ukraine, which are almost all selyscha mis'kogo tupy. As a result, I created a new List of cities in Ukraine by population, which includes all cities in Ukraine, with links for each city to the Ukrainian wiki. Uapatriot 05:34, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
P.S. I think it makes perfect sense to go for:
  • misto = city
  • selysche mis'kogo typu = town
  • selo = village
I'm afraid this classification reeks of original research. Can you cite any scholarly publication defining s.m.t. as town? --Ghirla | talk 08:39, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
An SMT is a small settlement of urban character—in common parlance, a town. It's not research, just application of common terminology. Whether it's a fair characterization or in some way misleading is a matter of judgement, and I don't know enough about the subject to be the only judge, so more opinions would be welcome. —Michael Z. 2006-02-16 15:30 Z
First, misto/SMT/selo is (1) a current Ukrainian classification, (2) a classification that existed for a long time, and (3) the only classification that I am aware of. Feel free to propose another classification and we will choose which one fits better for Ukraine.
Second, it seems that you agree that misto can be translated as city, and selo as village. If you also check town you can see that the first sentence says: A town is a residential community of people ranging from a few hundred to several thousands. SMT matches the population criteria precisely . The second sentence is: Generally, a "town" is thought of as larger than a village but smaller than a "city." It suggests that for a 3-level classification (as in Ukraine) SMT corresponds to a town. Again, if you have in mind another suggestion, it would be valuable to consider all and choose the best that applies to Ukraine. Uapatriot 18:14, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
I suggest we adopt this convention, and also add a short explanation at the top of each category. The top of the towns category can mention the specific definition of SMT with a link to the townlet article. Essentially, we would be defining it as "category:SMTs in Ukraine", but giving it a friendlier name for the benefit of general readers, while offering a prominent and clear explanation for those who are interested. —Michael Z. 2006-02-16 19:09 Z

And there is also townlet. --Irpen 07:06, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Townlet =PGT (ru) =SMT (uk). —Michael Z. 2006-03-01 18:35 Z

But it was argued above to use town for SMT, wasn't it? Anyway, I used townlet in Stebliv. I hope I did it right. --Irpen 19:43, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Oops, I see what you mean. Townlet is not a common English word—I'm not sure of its original source, but I think it is essentially made up to serve as a precise translation of the administrative term PGT/SMT. But in general use, e.g., category names or in the text of an article, I think the common term town is a more appropriate term, serving well enough for something that is in between a city and a village. (strictly speaking, I understand that misto includes all cities and larger towns, while PGT/SMT typically refers to "village-sized settlements of urban character", with exceptions) —Michael Z. 2006-03-01 20:33 Z

[edit] Ukrainian family names

How come there are no Ukrainian sections in List of most common surnames or Family name. Are there any articles covering Ukrainian family names at all? .Kevlar67 04:39, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ukrainian Canadian

I completely restructured this article and about doubled it's lenghth by adding many sub-sections. I would like comments on my progress. Kevlar67 01:05, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of massacres

Reading the list, you learn that the greatest "religious massacre" of the 17th century was as follows: "1648-1649 - Chmielnicki Uprising - 100,000 Poland Jews and Polish nobles killed by Cossacks under Bohdan Chmielnicki". Judging by the spelling of his last name, I get an idea as to who inserted this "fact" into the list. Please take a look if the quoted description is factually accurate. --Ghirla -трёп- 12:56, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion

It would have been great if someone translated fr:Les cosaques Zaporogues écrivant une lettre au sultan de Turquie. The subject is definitely worth it. I would have done it myself if it were not for my self-imposed ban on ua-related articles. Cheers, Ghirla -трёп- 16:36, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Quick initial article: Reply of the Zaporozhian Cossacks. Needs some work, and a good translation of the Apollinaire poem. —Michael Z. 2006-03-25 01:27 Z

[edit] References

[edit] Moved from talk:Ukraine

The comment below is moved from talk Ukraine. --Irpen 20:36, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] one contributor

Dear Ukrainian fellow-Wikipedians, one of our contributing editors Kuban coSSack's talking about dictatorial ruler Lukashenka (who massively and monstrously falsified the vote) and today's storming of the October square, when hundreds of special police arrested peaceful demonstrators, totally destoryed the camp, threw empty vodka bottles into the mess and videotaped that for Belarusan state television. Here's Kuban coSSack's comment about this police action and break-up of a peaceful protest, which took place at 3AM so that there would be no witnesses of their activity:

Dear fellow Wikipedians, do you understand that the only purpose of his contributions on articles about Belarus (such as Belarusian language, Belarusian history, Belarus, etc.) is to push Russian imperial POV and lies? Please, see history and talk pages of the Belarus-related articles. --rydel 16:34, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Webcomics of Ukraine

Please vote to keep or delete Category:Webcomics of Ukraine and Category:Webcomics by country at Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 March 29. —Michael Z. 2006-03-29 03:33 Z

[edit] DnieproGES

Just noticed we have two articles on the same dam, Dnieper Hydroelectric Station and DnieproGES. I put a merge request up, anyone would like to edit the text. --Kuban Cossack 19:19, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template:Audio-uk

I have created Template:Audio-uk for use with Ukrainian pronunciation .ogg files. Olessi 20:27, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The scope of Category:Russian people

Please join the discussion at Category talk:Russian people about whether the category should include ethnic Russians and Soviet people. Conscious 04:36, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page move

Please state your opinion at Talk:FC Metalurh Zaporizhzhya (a cut&paste move needs to be fixed). Conscious 10:44, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

You don't need a vote to have cut'n'paste moves fixed. I will ask someone to do it for us. --Irpen 16:25, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Done abakharev 21:26, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Volodislav Jahajlo

There is a discussion on how to name this article Talk:Władysław II Jagiełło Juraune 08:54, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

A new approval poll has begun. Again at Talk:Władysław II Jagiełło. Shilkanni 20:03, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Related discussion

Hey, there is a discussion (and poll) going down at Talk:Georgia (country), we'd appreciate your input. - FrancisTyers · 11:50, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Potemkin Stairs DYK

A potential DYK for the Potemkin Stairs article (by User:Odessaukrain). Discussion is taking place here.--Riurik 18:15, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

The article is being opposed due to a lack of picture showing the "optical illusion" of the Potemkin Stairs. See actual comments at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Did_you_know#August_2--Riurik 16:19, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Euro-Ukrainian alphabet

I'm concerned that the article Euro-Ukrainian alphabet constitutes original research. Can anyone supply some references? —Michael Z. 2006-08-14 16:51 Z

[edit] Metal-Forum of Ukraine

I added the cleanup tag to this article yesterday: it is in need of attention. I just thought I'd place a note here too. -- Roleplayer 12:09, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Raions and oblasts

I saw that Ukrainians Wikipedians love to mix English with their own language, and are using "raion" and "oblast" for districts and regions of Ukraine. However, the purpose of Wikipedia is not to enrich the English language. This Wikipedia is for ordinary English speaking people, and I don't think is necesary to force them to check the article raion or oblast in order to understand an other article. I suggest to use district instead of raion and region (or province) instead of oblast. Russians already made this change.--MariusM 22:04, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] De-russification of names and Naming Conventions

Dear editors of Ukraine-related articles,

I appreciate the de-russification of names, f.e. example Vasyl Ivanchuk instead of Vasily Ivanchuk. The only problem is that this breaks the Naming conventions. In a similar case I wanted to move Rafael Vaganian (an Armenian chess player) to Rafael Vahanyan but this was rejected by other users referring to the naming conventions, the only criterium of which is commonness. But the commonness (i.e. Google) is a result of thoughtless transcription of thousands of people from each other.

That is why I search for allies. In my eyes the mission of an encyclopedia is not the copying of incorrect information but throwing light on things. If anybody is interested in this topic, please answer. Ulf-S. 18:36, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Dear Ulf-S, it is not Wikipedia's mission to correct something. encyclopedias do not represent truth, they represent knowledge. WP:NC are there for a reason. Common usage decides what name is to be used, true, even if it saddens you or me in a particular case. In one thing you are right, though, that google results in the raw are not the only factor that unquestionably proves the common usage. If you can run a media usage search, it would probably be more objective. --Irpen 00:16, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
It is a valid point: wp is a collection of knowledge NOT necessarily truth (sounds a bit paradoxical, does it not?). Anyhow, determination of common usage is where the line gets murkier at least in this case. Armenian press and international organizations seem to use Vahanyan whereas NYT and others use Vaganian. In my opinion, I think you have a good case for an article under Vahanyan with Vaganian redirecting to the former. This should not upset fans of the Armenian chess master who will most likely be the ones reading an article about him in the first place.--Riurik (discuss) 03:50, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

More, his "correct" name is neither Vaganyan, nor Vahanyan but Ռաֆայել Վահանյան and that's what he should be called in Armenian WP. This is the only sure thing. There is no strict rule for the rest. Perhaps the current official translit would be Vahanyan. But this does not make it a correct or incorrect name by itself. It would sure be a correct translit according to a particulat rule. But his English name is what people call him in English speaking world and that should be the title for the article, to avoid the reader's confusion. Other names belong to the text. This is the basic logic behind the rule given in WP:NC(UE): "If you are talking about a person, country, town, movie or book, use the most commonly used English version of the name for the article, as you would find it in other encyclopedias and reference works." Don't get upset over it. Nothing can make him anything else but an Armenian grandmaster :). --Irpen 05:43, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

But then the litmus test is: Do you want to remove Vasyl Ivanchuk to Vasily Ivanchuk because it is more common? Volunteers, one pace forward! Ulf-S. 08:38, 23 September 2006 (UTC) P.S. I do not know whether this phrase works in English, I meant it ironically. Ulf-S. 08:43, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Per Irpen: google results in the raw are not the only factor that unquestionably proves the common usage. Like I said previously, you have a decent argument. If after you move it, there is still a lot of opposition maybe writing a couple of sentences about vahanyan vs vaganian can help. I really do not see any harm in having the article under Vahanyan with Vaganian redirecting there as long as the spelling is explained somewhere in the article. This issue does not need to usurp so much time as to take away from other projects.--Riurik (discuss) 19:10, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I only said that google test in not a single argument, and I stand by that assertion. It does not mean that the common usage cannot be determined. The better than google test way to determine the common usage is to check what names are used my modern media. If NYT and other major media use Vaganyan, I am afraid you have no case. I have recently elaborated on the issue here. I think if you just move the article on your own, this would be an extremely poor and inflammatory action. Still, if you can demonstrate that the commonness of Vaganyan cannot be established, you would have a case. It is up to you to do a media search and raise the issue at the article's talk. As for the Ukrainian chess-player, perhaps the current article's name does not reflect WP:NC either. If someone would challenge it, the issue will be looked at. I won't because I have too much to do.
Just as a food for thought, take a look at the Dvorovenko article about a world-class ballet dancer, originally from Kiev, who mostly performs in the West nowadays. Transliterated from Ukrainian according to the adopted convention, her first name is Iryna. She is very well known internationally and is called Irina by the media and in the stagebills. As such, her article's name reflects that.
So, let's separate two issues. There is no question that the article should be titled according to the most commonly used in English name and our NC reflect that. How to determine such name and whether it is possible to determine it, is a separate issue. There are certianly no eastablished English names for the people and places that are relatively obscure. Such, should be called by the national name trasniterated according to a fixed rule. There is no question that chess-players and dancers of this' acclaim are known in the English speaking world. If we can show under what name they are known, that name should be used and the national name, if different, should be explained in the article's text. If we cannot determine which name is more common (that is both are used in equal measure) perhaps the national name should take precedence. But this is not the case for Վահանյան and Дворовенко. If someone (or myself) takes it upon himself to do the research on the Ivasyuk's name, than the issue will (or will not) be addressed. --Irpen 20:37, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Dear Ulf-S: Being a volunteer, I checked "Vasyl Ivanchuk" vs. "Vasily Ivanchuk" and I didn't find a valid reason to prefer the latter name over the former. Best, KPbIC 22:31, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I know that might dissapoint some but I did the same and the results do not support Krys's assertion. I made a search of the usage restricted to the Major English language papers in the last 24 months using Lexis Nexis. These are the results for several variants:
--Irpen 00:00, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
Rinning Google search, I found 400 hits on Vasyl Ivanchuk and 700 hits on Vasily Ivanchuk. Both numbers are unsignificant, thus I did not see a reason to prefer "Vasily Ivanchuk" over "Vasyl Ivanchuk". --KPbIC 01:02, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

As agreed above, google search results by itself are just one of the factors to take into account. Major media results here are very convinsing. But here, even google results if compared correctly yield the same. Just make sure you restrict your search to the sites in English:

The article needs moved to the latter title. --Irpen 01:26, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Ivanchuk is listed on FIDE website as "Vassily Ivanchuk", and this is probably the reason for the rest of hits. The other Ukrainian players among top 100 are listed as "Ponomariov, Ruslan", "Karjakin, Sergey", "Volokitin, Andrei", "Eljanov, Pavel", "Moiseenko, Alexander", "Areshchenko, Alexander", "Efimenko, Zahar", "Baklan, Vladimir". Either they are all Russians, or FIDE is run by Russians. Guess what? --KPbIC 02:23, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

You can hypothesize what's "probably" but your (or mine) hypothesizing belongs to the talk pages at most. Please do not confuse the facts on the ground with the reasons why they are such. Encyclopedia should reflect the current situation. The person is known to the English reader under a certain name and the article should reflect that and this is exactly what WP:NC state. The proper place to campaign against the world injustices is the media and street demonstrations, not encyclopedias which should summarize available sources. When you attain some change in the world usage, the encyclopedia will reflect those changes. Similarly to how Kharkiv replaced Kharkov in the modern usage. --Irpen 02:45, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to delete my last comment, if you think, it's inappropriate. However, in my opinion, in general, a person who understands reasons behind facts can do a better job in describing and following the facts. And, I don't see a reason you suspect that I confuse facts and reasons. I think I don't. --KPbIC 03:41, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
Dear KPbIC,
I took Ivanchuk as an example because I had checked it beforehand. I think there are only two groups of people who knows Ivanchuk‘s true name: People who know Ukrainian and people who know Russian but dislike Russification. The rest of the world trust in the FIDE listing. (By the way, Ivanchuk is the only top Ukrainian player whose mother tongue is Ukrainian.)
But my point is the difference between references in a printed encyclopedia and redirects in Wikipedia. We should reflect the technical possibilites of Wikipedia. One does not have to search or even take another volume, one is simply redirected and just has to read one, two or three sentences and everything becomes clear. I expect that somebody who reads Wikipedia is ready to do that and is generally interested in such things. I am not a fundamentalist. I do not oppose f.e. using Vasily (or Vassily) Ivanchuk in a list of famous grandmasters or somewhere else. People see this and know who is meant and if they are interested in Ivanchuk they click and are redirected. I think this does not overstrain average readers of Wikipedia (quite contrary, when I was redirected in the German edition to Wassyl Iwantschuk instead of Wassili Iwantschuk I became especially interested). Ulf-S. 10:38, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

The DYK section featured on the main page is always looking for interesting new and recently expanded stubs from different parts of the world. Please make a suggestion.--Peta 02:13, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Already being done. --Irpen 02:28, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sukhomlinsky

The page about an educator is on AfD. Could someone take alook? TIA (posting here as the Talk page looks abandoned) Pavel Vozenilek 13:10, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Don't forget these image sources

Just a reminder of a couple of excellent image sources that are UA specific.

Also, remembering the worldwide sites such as Flickr goes without saying of course. Flicks is good by being very clear about the licenses.

Personally, I do not recommend uploading to commons, particularly the images from ua.vlasenko.net and klymenko.data-tec.net. Those images have watermarks and their being in commons results in this. If the image is copied from Wiki to commons, then deleted from Wiki as redundant and then attacked and deleted in Commons, the image becomes lost along with its source. So, sticking it to Wiki has advantages. See this for more. --Irpen 11:08, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

  • If there is no problem expected I would go for commons. You would help uk-wiki, ru-wiki and other wikis. Many editors from uk and ru have only dialup internet connections and uploading images is a big deal for them. If there are doubts over the copyright status then en-wiki might be better. Alex Bakharev 05:01, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Local wikis is a solution. If anyone has a problem with connection, the person only needs to leave/send me a message and I will upload any image from enwiki to any wiki. I know that this is somewhat a waste of resource, but I think it is a lesser evil than the danger of depending on the whims of the Commons. It may decide to change policies any time, as it happened before, by eg. outlawing country-PD images by the logic of what's PD in one country is not always PD in the US. Also, a possible change could be PD-US becoming insufficient and PD-Worldwide becomes demanded, which is impossible to prove. WMF may get into a political argument with CC and stop accepting CC licenses too. Who knows? Many things can happen in commons and since we are not often there, we may not even notice and only face the consequences.
    • On a brighter side, I am now corresponding with the owner of the web-site of an immense and well-sorted gallery of images from all over Ukraine. I am fairly certain about the positive outcome and will post you all once I get an approval. --Irpen 05:45, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Reward board#Any topic related to Belarus, Russia or Ukraine

Any topic related to Belarus, Russia or Ukraine
  • Offeror: wants to be anonymous
  • Date offered: 06:31, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Request: create from scratch or raise from pity shape any article related the history, politics, economy, anything of any of these three countries to WP:Featured status.
  • Additional requirement: the editor has to live in any of these three or other former-USSR countries (Baltic States are also eligible).
  • Reward: Reimbursement of three months worth of the costs of your Internet service provider (DSL or other high speed services are also eligible within reason)
  • Notes: please contact the awarding party by email here if you have any questions, to claim an award or if you are interested in cosponsoring. The donor is an established editor (maybe a group of editors) willing to make this offer anonymously. The moneys will be paid in cash in your local currency in an informal manner. If several editors co-edited the article together, the reward will not be divided. Rather all main contributors will receive a full award.
  • Limitations: None. The offer may be terminated at any time while there are no specific plans to do so.

[edit] Battle of Konotop and the Ruin articles

I am fairly new to the English Wikipedia and have written only a couple of articles but the recent two of them were virtully massacred by User:Ghirlandajo. Hetman Vyhovsky was termed as a "traitor" and the articles as "nationalist". All the significant changes were made without any consultation whatsoever. Since he is obviously looking for confrontation, I myself stopped discussing with him any issues relating to these articles and would like to ask the more experienced users to arrange for outside mediation to revert the siginificant and very biased changes and to reach to mutually agreed and neutral versions. Thanks.--Hillock65 18:11, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Hey, you need to tone down the level of your aggressive rhetoric. Although you regularly dismiss me as a "vandal", I still suggest you should discuss content of those articles you presume to own. Instead, you refuse to communicate and post "calls to arms" on public noticeboards. This is not a right attitude, imho. --Ghirla -трёп- 18:27, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't know where you saw "calls to arms"? I only asked for mediation in this matter, as your use of bias and highly inflamatory words such as "heroize the traitor Vyhovsky" and "nationalist oversimplifications" clearly indicate your inability to raise above personal likes and dislikes and treat matters fairly. I need some people with experience to help me deal with such an aggressive behaviour. I am not asking for anything but a mediation that will prevent war of edits, which you seem to be looking for.--Hillock65 20:56, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Ghirla is problematic. See RfC/Girla, RfC/Piotrus on his standing conflict with Piotrus. I would recommend contacting Mzajac. If you get him interested in the articles you write, he is likely to help. --KPbIC 23:01, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Hey, I've had my disagreements with Ghirla, but please don't characterize me as his opponent. He's a respected editor, and if you disagree about article content, I recommend trying to continue the discussion and agree on an acceptable wording, supported by good sources. I'll try to do some reading and have a look when I have a chance, but it may be a few days. —Michael Z. 2006-12-20 06:00 Z

[edit] Muscovy

It seems to me the subject below might be of interest of Ukrainian editors, but again I could be wrong. Since I am being continually reverted on the main page, let me place them here, so that others know what the controversy is all about.

  • An attempt was made to move Muscovy, a key article in our cycle on Russian history, to a different name without going through a proper WP:RM. I ask any admins reading this to fix the resulting mess. A proper WP:RM vote is required for such large scale moves! Balcer 15:06, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
  • In addition, a large part of the Muscovy article was split off into a new Tsardom of Russia, without any discussion so far, with the year 1547 presented as an arbitrary dividing line. Please comment. Balcer 15:19, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ukrainian Christmas

Take a look at the info at Christmas_worldwide#Ukraine and Winter_holiday_greetings#Languages_other_than_English and help me decide what to keep and what to delete. 198.161.51.2 20:39, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ukrainian rulers

Is there an article listing all of the Ukrainian rulers (from Kievan Rus' - Present), like the article List of Russian rulers? If there is, what it is called? --Boguslav 23:12, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

No, or at least not that I know of... You can create it if you like... —dima/s-ko/ 23:21, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ludmila Bereznitsky

The article is currently on VfD. Could someone take a look here? Pavel Vozenilek 23:14, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Meteorite Craters in Ukraine

The articles in the Category:Craters of Ukraine require some attention in terms of links to these articles or some additional information. Currently these articles very loosely related to Ukraine. Some of the articles were about to be deleted. This information is valueable. Please help. Thank you! Solarapex 01:04, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Articles on Zaporizhian Cossacks

Articles on Zaporizhian Cossacks Zaporizhian Host and Zaporizhian Sich present in their significant part one-sided Russian propaganda point of view, where all negative parts of Russian Tsars policies carefully omitted. Tries to present the opinion of the Ukrainian sources are erased.

More of that, some passages in discussion and article itself disappear without mark in history?

Does Ukrainian historians point of view deserve to be presented in Ukraine related articles? Ans-mo 10:56, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

WP:NPOV means that a neutral NOT a Ukrainian point of view on history must be presented. --Kuban Cossack 11:45, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Neutral, but not Russian one-sided point of view. If Russian-Empire loving point is presented, why should not be presented Ukrainian source in the article for Ukrainian Cossacks? Ans-mo 12:03, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Where do you see a Russian Empire loving point? Please give examples. If some details are omitted then it is wrt context not to POVs. Like this feaces The abolishment of the Zaporizhian Sich remained a tragic event in the Ukrainian folklore and peoples memory, where frequently expressed negative attitude towards Empress Catherine and Moscovites (moskal), who ruined the stronghold of the Ukrainian dignity and independence. Wikipedia is not a private political website where one can brag about how the evil terrible finno-urgic Moskals (or whatever the trend amongst Ukrainian nationalists of calling us now...) destroyed the poor helpless (but alas independent!) Ukraine. --Kuban Cossack 12:10, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Omitted deliberately are facts of real suffering of Cossacks from Russian rulers and multiply repressions of them. Such facts in multitude are presented in the Ukrainian sources, mentioned in the Discussion page of Zaporizhian Sich. As for folklore, do you need example of correspondent Ukrainian song or Shevchenko poems in Ukrainian? Or you think Cossacks should have expressed gratitude for ruining their Sich? Ans-mo 12:20, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Opinions like The abolishment of the Zaporizhian Sich remained a tragic event .. or e.g. True progenitors of Sich: Kuban Cossacks hate speculations.. should be attributed. E.g. according to Mykhailo Hrushevsky The abolishment of the Zaporizhian Sich ...<ref>.... If a referenced information about persecution of cossacks is removed it is a vandalism-like event. I was not able to find such edits. Cossacks in the Literature and Arts is a great suggestion for a section or a daughter-article. Shevchenko, Gogol, Repin, Semen Hulak-Artemovsky: looks great. Alex Bakharev 13:06, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Here is the example of erased article with clear source:

"By evidence of other sources [4], the leading class (starshyna) of the Zaporizhian Host was brought to the trial and punished by Russian Government. The last Koshovyi Otaman Petro Kalnyshevsky was exiled to Solovki monastery, where he spent more than 26 years as a prisoner in small cell (1 X 2 m). Kalnyshevsky was only 3 times ayear allowed to quit his "stony bag" for open air and by the time of Emperor Alexander I pardon was already blind." Ans-mo 11:17, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Erased from Z.Host. Ans-mo 13:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes it was erased, for two reasons a) it is not relevant, b) there are source that contradict this passage. --Kuban Cossack 22:05, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Guys, I think this should be discussed at the article's talk. --Irpen 23:32, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Next several passages with source (not all are created by me) are erased by the same user from articles Zaporizhian Sich and Zaporizhian Host. Can be seen in the discussion pages of the mentioned articles.Ans-mo 06:28, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Khmelnytsky Uprising

This article is having a heated debate about the issue of Jewish casualties, recently showing signs of revert warring. Neutral comments and attempt to create a compromise version are very much needed before further escalation.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  07:47, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Transliteration problem

(why "problem"? rename it to "2007 Transliteration system for Ukrainian passport" or something like this :)
(Maybe because the system isn't that great? :-) I have to keep it like it is because of links on users' talk pages.)

The Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine has changed the official transliteration system for Ukrainian names. The new transliteration table, found here, is mentioned below. Please discuss what should be done about this here. The result of this discussion should and will be merged to the WP:UKR guideline. — Alex(U|C|E) 17:45, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

New system (2007)
А — A І — I Т — T
Б — B Ї — І У — U
В — V Й — І Ф — F
Г — G К — K Х — KH
Ґ — G Л — L Ц — TS
Д — D М — M Ч — CH
Е — E Н — N Ш — SH
Є — IE О — O Щ — SHCH
Ж — ZH П — P Ь — omitted
З — Z Р — R Ю — IU
И — Y С — S Я — IA
Previous system (2004)
А - A І - I Т - T
Б - B Ї - Yi, i У - U
В - V, W Й - Y, i Ф - F
Г - H, G К - K, C Х - KH
Ґ - G, H Л - L Ц - TS
Д - D М - M Ч - CH
Е - E Н - N Ш - SH
Є - Ye, ie О - O Щ - SHCH
Ж - ZH, J П - P Ь - '
З - Z Р - R Ю - Yu, iu
И - Y С - S Я - Ya, ia
This only affects transliteration for passports, correct? Will it change the official spelling of current Ukrainians' names, or only those who are issued new passports in the future?
Do you know if the other official system, for geographic names, remains in effect?[2] I think it should be added as another column in the article romanization of Ukrainian. Beyond that, I don't think it has any dramatic effect on romanization in Wikipedia, although it should be considered when the romanization guidelines are discussed or amended (WP:CYR. —Michael Z. 2007-07-03 18:10 Z
Well, considering that the previous guideline for transliterating was almost (if not exactly) the same as WP:UKR, I really don't know. This is why I posted it here, to see what needs to be done about it. It is a fairly noticeable change (Yushchenko vs Iushchenko, Yanukovych vs Ianukovych). — Alex(U|C|E) 18:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I also decided to discuss it because I noticed that "shch" is used instead of "sch". "sch" is mentioned in the official transliteration which WP:UKR links to, and "shch" is mentioned in the old transliteration chart for passports. Just thought it was worthy of mention. — Alex(U|C|E) 18:30, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

As the one who wrote the guideline at WP:CYR#Ukrainian, I must say that it has needed revision for a long time. Unfortunately, the last few proposals for change led to an impasse in the discussion.
Geographic names should continue to follow the official Ukrainian geographic convention (the so-called National System), of course.
For other names, what WP:CYR says about ye/ie, ya/ia, and yu/iu in proper names was what seemed right to me at the time, but it corresponds to absolutely no established standards. Changing it to recommend BGN/PCGN names would make almost no perceptible change to current practice, but it would be adopting an established standard which is easy for English-speakers to understand, and it would simplify the guideline. —Michael Z. 2007-07-03 18:32 Z
Bear in mind, however, that no matter what the Ukrainian government decides, the important thing to consider is whether the system is going to work for Anglophones. With Russian, for example, this is precisely the reason why we don't use (Russian) government-mandated GOST, but instead use a BGN/PCGN-based system, which is easier for Anglophones to comprehend. All in all, the bottom line should the convenience of our readers, not compliance with non-vital government regulations.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 18:34, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Very much agreed. —Michael Z. 2007-07-03 18:46 Z
Nope. I don't want to go deeply into discussion, but for the record let me state my opinion. There are no doubts that we need to use a system, which is "the best" (best for Anglophones, best in handing over Ukrainian, best of the best). But could a "home-made" system be the best? User:Ezhiki is saying that their current Russian system is a BGN/PCGN-based system. In WP:UKR it's mentioned that the National system (1996) is a BGN/PCGN-based system. We all know that the differences between transliteration systems are minor, and any transliteration system can be named as BGN/PCGN-based system, if there is such desire.
So far, I've not seen any convincing argument in favor of an "non-standardized" system (I called them "home-made" systems). Standardized systems are supported by research and studies by established institutions (language institutes, universities, academy of science, ministry of education, ministry of culture, etc.) All arguments in favor of a "home-made" system are based around "I think it's the best". It's not based on any deep linguistic studies. The current Russian transliteration system is largely based on some early consensus, which is hard to overrule because transliteration systems by its nature (too many letters in alphabet, too many options for transliteration, as opposite to a binary choice) is one of the most arguable issues, in which almost everyone has a different set of preferences. It's good that for Ukrainian transliteration, so far, we stick to an established system. I think it would be encyclopedical to keep it that way (at least for now; until the time we get professional linguists among Wikipedia users, comparable in skills with those of the established institutions). --Novelbank 20:15, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
To clarify, I was not advocating use of a "home-made" system for Ukrainian. You are absolutely correct about WP:RUS being established based on a (much) earlier consensus and about it being hard to change now. What I was telling is that there is no need to jump the gun and immediately switch to some new system Ukrainian (or any other government) introduces; it is best to stick to what works best for our purposes, for purposes of building an English-language encyclopedia.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 02:01, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
I hate the way transliteration change. We already has two different editions of transliteration for passports in the past - now we have different one (it's all on rada website). Can somebody create comparation table ? --TAG 18:41, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I've made an addition to romanization of Ukrainian, but the table there still has to be updated. Also, there appear to be at least three systems officially used recently: see hostmaster.net.ua. —Michael Z. 2007-07-03 18:46 Z

Let's be more precise. The Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine established new transliteration rules for the sole purpose of transliteration of Ukrainain names in Ukrainian passport. The National transliteration system (1996) has wider scope as being binding for the transliteration of Ukrainian names in English in legislative and official acts. It would be interestiong to see whether the decision of the Cabinet of Ministers would have any effect on other areas outside of the narrow scope of Ukraininian passport. Will the president's name be changed to Iushchenko at the President's website? Will the names of Parliament members be changed to reflect the new transliteration rules at Parliament website? It's doubtful.

WP:UKR has been used for transliteration of modern geographic names, and as such the new transliteration rules for passport does not affect that.

Speaking of Ukrainian personal names, the issue is rather more uncertain. WP:UKR was rarely used for transliteration of personal names. Indeed as the policy claims that "most personal names have a conventional English spelling", and if so, that name should be used. I think, we should acknowledge that now there are yet another transliteration rules for personal names (regardless of whether we like them or not), add follow them for Ukrainian people without an established English name.

The modifications should be made to:

--Novelbank 18:50, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I personally don't like the new rules. :-) Well, I guess we'll see what changes, but I'm guessing it's Yatsenyuk's idea. Or should I say Iatseniuk? ;-) — Alex(U|C|E) 19:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
It is definitely not a Yatsenyuk idea, but rather an outcome of Internal Affairs Office (or Militia) efforts [3], which is responsible for issuing passports.Ans-mo 06:22, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone have a reference for the previous two versions of passport transliteration? —Michael Z. 2007-07-03 20:44 Z

Here is the link to the Regulation at the Rada website. The new Cabinet of Ministries decision amends the Regulation, but these amendments have not been incorporated into the text at that website, so as of now you can see there the previous version of the passport transliteration system. --Novelbank 21:11, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. —Michael Z. 2007-07-03 21:27 Z


I've made an initial proposal for a summary of official Ukrainian romanization systems at talk:Romanization of Ukrainian#Different Ukrainian national systems. Please comment there for the purposes of adding material to that article.

I've also made a table there, comparing all of the official systems. —Michael Z. 2007-07-03 23:05 Z

I don't know why they keep changing it. It just confuses people. Kind of like Kiev-Kyiv. I mean seriously, the City was named Kiev for hundreds of years, so why change it all of a sudden. Same goes for Kharkov-Kharkiv, among other similar issues. But, yaeh, put the new info in, this is a NEUTRAL encyclopedia after all, and it DOES need to be up to date. --SergeiXXX 07:01, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

I do not think that Wikipedia should necessarily adopt this new convention for transliterating the names. Instead, a standard method for transliterating all Ukrainian (Cyrillic) words should be adopted -- Something along the lines of the scientific transliteration would be good. Any other transliteration methods can be mentioned in the table or given in the text. I have seen a wide variety of different methods of transliterating names originally written in Cyrillic. Yet another system, which is different in form from the geographical system, is quite unnecessary. This will only obfuscate the relationships between the Cyrillic and Latin alphabets and the meaning of the words. Every article containing "Андрій" does not need an explanation on the difficulties in transliterating/translating the name: Should it be Andri, Andrij, Andriy, or Andrew? (e.g. Andriy Shevchenko) Woollymammoth 21:53, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Just a FYI. Based on fact that "Андрій" is my name and I've incorrectly transliterated it before I've got my international passport as Andrew, but in passport it was Andriy - we should try to find official source - i.e. name of person in official records. --TAG 23:10, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Well, the new transliteration system might affect how people are referred to in official records. There shouldn't be a double standard in a government, so I think they'll gradually switch over to the new way of transliterating names, changing official records. — Alex(U|C|E) 23:16, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
When I was receiving a Ukrainian international passport I stated that I want my name to be spelled in a passport in a certain way, and it was fulfilled. (Actually, nothing special, all I wanted was to get the same spelling as it was in my previous documents). And it’s not just me. The law says: На письмове прохання громадянина написання прізвища та імені латинськими літерами може бути виконано відповідно до їх написання у документах, виданих відповідними органами іноземної держави.[4] (In my case I was not asked to provide any supporting documents for my preferred spelling.) Therefore, I don't think the new transliteration rules for passport would have so significant effect. I actually support the part of the law, which allows the customized English spelling. It's not about double standards in a government. No need to restrict the freedom of choosing a name (or spelling of that name). The official records should merely reflect people's choice. If Кличко Володимир Володимирович wants to be Wladimir Klitschko, so be it. (Geographic names are more difficult. Residents prefer to name their city as Kyiv, Kyyiv, Kiev; foreigners keep using Kiev, Kiew, Kijow, etc., etc. But that's another story.) --Novelbank 05:22, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
The geographic names are actually a lot easier than personal names. That same BGN/PCGN system previously discussed on a number of occasions was devised to deal specifically with geographic names. Quite a few maps from major publishers use it and it's the most convenient to Anglophones. No need to re-invent the wheel there. Not so with personal names. Of course, in cases such as Володимир Кличко wanting to be "Wladimir Klitschko", it's quite easy—all that needs to be done is to show that it's indeed his personal preference or that's how his name is spelled in official documents. Unfortunately, it's not quite as easy for most of other people, many of whom don't really care how their names are spelled in English and who are referred to by different spellings in different sources. This is where having an established guideline (home-brewed or arbitraly chosen from a set of existing ones) is of enormous help—it helps standardize the names within the project, makes maintenance easier, and prevents silly edit wars over "the most correct" spellings backed with nothing more than marginal google counts. The tough part, of course, is to determine which system would work best for this purpose and reach a consensus. Once a consensus is reached, the system would be used in all cases by default but would still permit an alternate spelling if reliable sources exist to back it up.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:08, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, I personally like Woollymammoth's idea of a slightly modified version of scholarly transliteration. I guess we can set up a vote to decide what the best way is. If we were to go with scholarly transliteration, though, my suggestion would be as follows:

Latin Cyrillic Latin Cyrillic Latin Cyrillic
Aa Аа Jj Йй Śś Сьсь
Bb Бб Kk Кк Šš Шш
Cc Цц Ll Лл Tt Тт
Ćć Цьць Ľľ Льль Ťť Тьть
Čč Чч Mm Мм Uu Уу
Dd Дд Nn Нн Vv Вв
Ďď Дьдь Ńń Ньнь Xx Хх
Ee Ее Oo Оо Yy Ии
Ff Фф Pp Пп Zz Зз
Gg Ґґ Rr Рр Źź Зьзь
Hh Гг Ŕŕ Рьрь Žž Жж
Ii Іі Ss Сс

Very similar to the scholarly transliteration, except it accounts for things like "ся" (śa) and "тя" (ťa). There's one problem with it, though. I can't think of a way to represent the soft "в" sound (example: "свято") and the soft "ж" sound (example: "Запоріжжя"). Just a suggestion, but it would be nice to hear what people think. — Alex(U|C|E) 19:51, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Come on. Could you provide any evidence that indicate the usage of your "very similar to the scholarly transliteration"? Do you think humans were blind about the truly best Ukrainian-English transliteration, and you are about to make a break-through in the linguistic science? If you do think that your proposed transliteration is indeed valuable, why don't you submit it to a reputable linguistic journal for publishing? --Novelbank 22:29, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
As I said above, it was just as suggestion. There is absolutely no need to attack me over it, just say that you don't like it and that's it. Please read WP:NPA and WP:AGF for more information. — Alex(U|C|E) 22:38, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
In fact, I have seen this system used in Slovakia to write primarily Ukrainian songs. There is an example of such a song showing some Ukrainian traits (i from the jat'):
Ty priznajsja meni, zvidky v tebe ty čari,
ja bez tebe vsi dny, u poloňi pečali.
Može des u lisach, ty čar zilja šukala,
sonce rutu znajšla, i mene včaruvala..
The source for this song is http://projekty.infovek.sk/pesnicky/ . I wonder if Rusyn, which is spoken in Eastern Slovakia, can be written using this alphabet. If so, this version should be adopted on the lines of the Serbian/Croatian alphabet dichotomy. I hope this clarifies the situation. Woollymammoth 16:19, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dynamo Kyiv


[edit] Featured pic nom

[edit] Ukrainian Ground Forces Structure

For anyone who is interested/is somewhat informed on the subject, please the discussion on the structure of the Ukrainian army here, User talk:Ceriy#Ukrainian Ground Forces 2. Regards, Bogdan 16:13, 4 November 2007 (UTC).


[edit] Nachtigall Battalion

Article needs to be rewritten, otherwise it violates copyright because it is taken almost word for word from the Holocaust encyclopedia published by the Wiesental centre http://motlc.learningcenter.wiesenthal.org/text/x16/xm1688.html . Bandurist 12:19, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is this obvious sockpuppetry or what?

Take a look at the newest member of the Ukrainian wikiproject. User:Pazan.ua. this is his first edit on wikipedia. Why did user:Mona23653 make a user page for a someone without a single edit? Secondly, User:Pazan.ua‎ has yet to make a single content edit, but he has joined 3 wikiprojects, what?!? A more than obvious sock puppet of Mona23653. Could someone please deal with this. Regards, Bogdan 05:11, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Serhiy Yefremov

Prometheism article mentions the 1930 trial of Serhiy Yefremov in USSR. I wonder if uk wiki has an article on him that could be translated? A quick google search indicates he is a notable and interesting figure.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 17:19, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Metalurh Zaporizhia

[edit] User:DDima for admin

[edit] Kharkiv or Kharkov

See commons:User talk:EugeneZelenko#Kharkiv_vs._Kharkov.

[edit] Milena Markovna Kunis or Milena Markivna Kunis

This is not that important but simulair to Kharkiv or Kharkov I guess! On Mila Kunis page (actress born in Kyiv). They say her name is Milena Markovna Kunis But even my (female) friend from Crimea uses the Ukrainian version of her Patronymic (Milena Markivna Kunis, (that is not my friends name ofcourse)). I mentioned it on the talk page of the article but nobody responds on the talk page of the article. Can I change it too Milena Markivna Kunis? Russian versions of Ukrainian names irritate me :-) Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:03, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

It is nice that you ask, but especially after you bring something up on a talk page, and there is no response, and you feel that there is good reason to make whatever the change may be: WP:BE BOLD.--Riurik(discuss) 18:48, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
She is Jewish so I thought that mabey they have different rules for there Patronymic's, I'm Dutch so don't know all the details of Ukraine and didn't want to be reckless... Thanks and: Good luck to Dinamo Kyiv! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 18:56, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, I guess it depends on Ms. Kunis herself. It may as well be -ovna, rather than -ivna.--Riurik(discuss) 19:06, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
The Ukrainian translation of her name say's Markivna.... so in order to keep things balanced so should the latin alphabet version of her name, right? PS after the 3th season that 70's show went downhil fast... Mariah-Yulia (talk) 21:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
According to this interview on youtube [[5]] where she try's to make us believe that Russia and Ukraine are one country (?)Stalin would be proud of her...) and in another interview on youtube [[6]] she only mentions Russia.... so it must be -ovna then. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 01:43, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] talk:SS Admiral Nakhimov

Can anybody confirm or deny that this ship had a serious accident in 1974 ? Mieciu K (talk) 21:28, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Too many High-importance Ukraine articles

I tried to be helpfull so I tried to edit some Category:High-importance Ukraine articles but then I saw there where about 400 of them. I mean, how can Razom Nas Bahato, Nas Ne Podolaty still be High-importance? Should we have a system based on internethits and not based on personal views to place articles in the Category:High-importance Ukraine articles? Mariah-Yulia (talk) 21:21, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Totally agree. I hesitated to downgrade article's importance in order to not touch the editors' sensitivities as having one own article graded low or mid-level of importance may be unpleasant to some. But I think mature editors can easily handle that (I do) and if there are no objections, we should do some downgrading.
On a separate note, please do not take example of some of our neighbors and use this board to post messages that can easily be construed as divisive and inflammatory. I am removing such section from here by this edit. The proposed box also contradicts the spirit and the letter of the userpsace policy which specifically calls for avoiding any sort of political campaigning, especially the divisive one, in the userspace. --Irpen 03:31, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] No Ukrainian National Merit Barnstar?

The impressive list at here nonetheless has no Ukrainian barnstar. We should rectify this ASAP! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 05:30, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

There is. Thanks for your interest to this matter. --Irpen 05:33, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Ah, thanks. We need to add it to the Commons page, based on the few 'what links here' it seems mostly forgotten.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 05:51, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Done! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:50, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
This award is not "forgotten". It's just that there is more than one Ukraine-specific award. You can view several at the page of DDima, a very decorated Ukrainian editor, as well as talk pages and archives of other editors. There are plenty Ukraine-specific Wikipedia awards given by Riurik too that you can find from his contributions. --Irpen 08:01, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
I placed (some of the Ukrainian Awards) at the portal so there easy to find! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:22, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Names

I realize this has probably already been discussed, but why do all the Kyiv metro articles have Russian in them? Could someone tell me? Ostap 05:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Ostap, you can see the whole discussion at Talk:Podilsko-Voskresenska Line. —dima/talk/ 18:24, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm from Western Europe so might not understand anything about Ukraine :) but I seriously do not understand what the constant fuss about Russian names being used in Ukrainian articles is al about... I do understand that various Russian rulers tried to wipe out the Ukrainian language (of course that was evil!), but to start removing Russian in Ukrainian articles can not lead to any good... in fact I think it will only lead to Russian Wikipidians rewriting Wikipedia in a way that it looks there culture in Ukraine is under attack (see Racism in Ukraine...) and the we have to start rewriting what they wrote... and then we get into all sorts of discussions on Talk pages etc. etc. etc. I assume good faith of Ostap but I think it's better to keep the Russian names to avoid trouble (it would be different if the Ukrainian names would be removed from the articles of course!). On a other note: if I understand right 60% of Kyiv speaks Russian, so they probably use the Russian names anyhow. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 20:32, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

"The total number of languages in the world is between 5,000 and 10,000", lets just put every language possible in Ukrainian articles. Try putting in Polish, I'm sure that will go over well. Ostap 04:27, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

WP:POINTy arguments won't get you far. --Irpen 05:10, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Russian-Ukrainian relations article

Why is there no Russian-Ukrainian relations? Seems most interesting for foreigners. Or did there used to be one and did that one got lost in a edit-war? Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:31, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

It will get if it gets started. It would either be devoid of content, like current "pl-ua relations" article or it would get useless because of edit warring. --Irpen 22:54, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm afraid your right. I'm gonna play Why Can't We Live Together by Timmy Thomas now. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 23:11, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Are you talking about Russian-Ukrainian relations or Russia-Ukraine relations? These are two different topics. --Greggerr (talk) 15:39, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I mean the relations between the states/country's, not the people (so Russia-Ukraine relations it is). Mariah-Yulia (talk) 19:52, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] NATO-Ukrainian relations article

Is a NATO-Ukrainian relations article a bad idea? Mariah-Yulia (talk) 23:46, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Isn't this Ukraine-NATO wiki-battlefield enough? Certainly such article can be created but it would have to be baby seated like some of the articles you know already. I won't have patience. --Irpen 23:54, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Georgia and NATO looks fine, as well as Ukraine and the European Union. Mariah-Yulia, do need some kind of support? :) Go ahead and write whatever you think is missing! --Greggerr (talk) 15:36, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Do try to use a published book or another reputable secondary source instead of internet news articles. --Riurik(discuss) 19:39, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Zapor

We have a ZAZ, AvtoZAZ, Zaporozhets and individual model articles such as ZAZ Tavria. Does anyone see a problem here? --Kuban Cossack 18:02, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

The finest car ever made deserves to be written about in such detail.--Riurik(discuss) 20:23, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
But surely it would make more sense to re-group the articles by model numbers. I mean there is no separate Zhiguli article, all the models are collectively explained under AvtoVAZ. Though I agree there is no universal order there as well, but at least we have VAZ-2101 not kopeyka! As for finest it has to be this I have one!
No I am serious, have a look at how Mercedes is done: e.g. the famous chemodan (also known as Shestisoty which I also have btw) and the template at the bottom showing the production chronology etc. Should we not create something similar? --Kuban Cossack 13:56, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, regrouping them under some logical order should be done.--Riurik(discuss) 17:26, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Deleting Ukrainian Revolution of 1918 once and for all

The article on Makhnovism has been once again forked under the title Ukrainian Revolution of 1918. Removing the fork is not a problem, but I've initiated a formal AfD, so this title can be speedy deleted in the future. Please register your affirmation or denial at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ukrainian Revolution of 1918.

Khrystos Voskres. —Michael Z. 2008-04-29 21:32 Z

[edit] Film editors wanted

WikiProject Films has solicited interest in creating a Soviet/CIS cinema task force. We'd like to cordially welcome all regular editors of these articles to voice their interest in starting this task force so as to see if there is sufficient support. Many thanks! Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 02:27, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Paleoconservatism

This article says that Ukraine is a base of the paleoconservative movement. Is this true? Ostap 23:17, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Is it verifiable with a credible source?--Riurik(discuss) 01:47, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
It was suddenly added here with no source. Ostap 07:29, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Looks like more of fiction writing. I removed all country designations, unless substantiated with credible sources.--Riurik(discuss) 19:47, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Template question

I would like to move Ukrainian diaspora articles from {{Ukrainians}} and create separate {{Ukrainian diaspora}} template similar to {{Polish diaspora}} template. What do you think? It seems to me it is a standard to group similar ethnic group articles by the navigation box at the bottom. - Darwinek (talk) 10:51, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

That's interesting. It makes sense. I don't have objections or comments to it, but maybe others?--Riurik(discuss) 04:16, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Done. - Darwinek (talk) 17:26, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ukrainians of Brazil article help

I'm repeating a message I left for Bandurist. Awhile ago I created an article about Ukrainians of Brazil. Since then someone has added a list prominant "Ukrainians", almost all of whom were actually non-Ukrainians. Because this detracted from the article I had those people removed. This prompting an edit war, smears of me being a Nazi, etc. because apparently some Brazilian editors feel that every single person born in Ukraine must be a Ukrainian and it is racist to state otherwise. I provided examples of other non-Ukrainians from Ukraine such as Ukrainian-born Trotsky or Mikhail Bulgakov to no avail. This may not be something that is your specialty, but perhaps another Eastern-European voice would be helpful? Thanks... Faustian 04:37, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Third faction in the Soviet invasion of Poland (1939) article?

I have read about withdrawing Polish units in 1939 being ambushed by Ukrainian insurgents (possibly Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists) does anybody know how widespread and notable those attacks were? Should we add OUN to the Soviet invasion of Poland (1939) Military Conflict Infobox?

If you have any comments or suggestions please reply on the Portal talk:Poland/Poland-related Wikipedia notice board where this topic was started. Mieciu K (talk) 10:01, 3 June 2008 (UTC)