Category talk:UK transmitter sites

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There have been several attempts recently to delete articles in this category, and many of the same arguments have been deployed in the discussion about each such article. I think it would be helpful if we were to discuss UK transmitter site articles here, in an attempt to arrive at a consensus about which sites should be featured and which shouldn't.

WP has various ideas about 'notability', and attempts to define what that term means. In practice, however, 'notability' is a subjective judgement by those who participate in AfD discussions. The gist of such discussions recently seems to be that most of the sites featured are notable, except 'transposer' type relay stations. The latter includes: Brecon VHF-transmitter, Chesterfield Transmitter, Ferryside Relay, Flint TV relay, Guildford Transmitter, Tapton Hill transmitting station and Wrexham-Rhos Relay. Harumphy 13:19, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with all of the above except I believe we should keep Ferryside, due to its historical significance as the first station in the country to be converted to digital only. It was the site of the UK's experiment into digital switchover and is therefore notable. Chillysnow 21:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

• I am glad you highlighted the differences. Although I am no expert in the subject, I also would like to see some relevant discriminating criteria specific to this group to avoid proliferation of things which have no importance other that they exist and perform a basic utilitarian function. Of course, it would be helpful if more than one source has written about them, per WP:N. I failed to see why/how the above stations were notable, but I did not feel at ease proposing them (except Brecon, which was a useless stub) for deletion in my cleanup. In relation to Ferryside, there will always be firsts. If this group of structures is utilitarian and not notable per above, I fail to what difference does it make even if it's the first to be converted to digital: In fact, the article is one of the weakest, and certainly fails to make the importance clear to me. Ohconfucius 01:50, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

The problem is with many of the articles, as Ohconfucius points out, there is usually only one source (the MB21 transmitter gallery website), a Google search for many of the articles will not find much beyond MB21, Wikipedia and Wikipedia mirrors. For something like the Ferryside relay, sources can be found for the fact it was first in digital switchover and the fact it was reported on BBC News: [1][2], and a Government report was published [3]. There are quite a few articles on here which don't or couldn't expand beyond what is written on MB21, have no other verifiable sources and are not notable for Wikipedia. --tgheretford (talk) 15:32, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I added some references to the Ferryside relay article. --tgheretford (talk) 15:59, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lists of transmitting stations in Arqiva and National Grid Wireless

User:Briantist has replaced the relatively short list of notable-ish stations in these two articles with a much longer list of sites, most of which are transposer-type relay stations. These relay stations, for the most part, do not meet the WP criteria for 'notability' in that they have not been the subject of at least two non-trivial published works. Also, their inclusion would upset the compromise we reached just three months ago (see above) with the 'delete all transmitter site articles' posse that rears its ugly head every now and then. If we confine coverage to main stations and exclude most of the relays then I think we can at least keep what we've got. Harumphy 15:13, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree, the extended list is largely pointless. Almost all of the links will never link to articles on the actual tx sites in Wiki, and thus either end up as redlinks or links to articles on the town/village in question which is of no use. The list only serves therefore to obfuscate links to the notable sites that actually have articles. Furthermore, these lists have actually removed many important sites altogether, such as Brookmans Park, KirkoShotts, Droitwich, Chillerton Down, Mendlesham, Burghead, Holme Moss, Meldrum, NHT, etc. etc. The lists also don't take into account all the other hundreds of NGW and Arqiva sites that broadcast radio or mobile telephony only services - if all of these were included as well the final page would be enormous. Chillysnow 15:43, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I though it was reasonable to provide the list of TV transmitters as the two companies now belong to the same Austrilian Bank and there is a Monopolies and Mergers investigation underway. If you don't find that interesting... ••Briantist•• talk 10:02, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

That is a non sequitur. Harumphy 11:17, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Brian, I don't think it's an issue of whether Harumphy or I find it interesting, it's just that the general premise in Wiki of whether or not to include something in the article is that it should be *notable*. A big long list of tx sites (which was not particularly comprehensive anyway), is just repeating the big long list readily available elsewhere on the web, and just serves to muddy the article. This is especially true when you consider that the links to the few sites that are considered notable and have their own Wiki articles get drowned out by a ratio of about 20:1 or worse. Chillysnow 12:54, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

To which Wikipedia rule are you refering, or is this your own OPINION? ••Briantist•• talk 11:42, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:Notability. Harumphy 12:26, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

That's not a polict is it? ••Briantist•• talk 09:26, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

And I can't see that you've actually read it, because it refers to the status of an article existing, not the completeness of the content, ffs. ••Briantist•• talk 09:28, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I've now referred this to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. Harumphy 09:47, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure that they will point out your error to you and your POV ••Briantist•• talk 09:53, 11 April 2007 (UTC)