Talk:Uar

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They (Uar & Hunnoi) are supposed to have united around 460 under the rule of one of the five Yuezhi families - the Hephthal indicating a connection to the Bar-Guni of Mongolian inscriptions.

"and (Uar) were one element of the Mongolian Bar-guni."

Reason: can not find any non-wiki source for "Bar-Guni". Please correct my action if a source can be found. Kaz 14:19, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Removed from the article:

The subjugation of the Uyghurs by the Var is a claim which raises its head from time to time. The story goes that one branch of the Juan Juan was called var, and they were placed at the head of the Uyghurs after subjugating them.

Reason: although the claim abounds on sites not using wiki sources, the claim seems illogical since the Uighurs did not exist at this time and there is no "var" sound in Chinese. Please correct my action if a source can be found. Kaz 14:19, 2 September 2006 (UTC) NB I have just discovered something useful at Talk:Hua (state)Kaz 15:16, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

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The polyandry customs among the Hua^{[citation needed]}, as similar to the Göktürks^{[citation needed]}, was an uncommon practice in the steppe and had been suggested to be of Iranian or Hindu origin.

Reason: can not find any non-wiki source for the info. Please correct my action if a source can be found.Kaz 16:25, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

"Peoples with similar ethnicons had been present along the Silk Road for centuries, and several of the Central European family names actually derive from the names of such tribes."

I have no problem believing this, but a few examples would be great. Dysmorodrepanis 18:42, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

The following is taken from "The History of the Jewish Khazars," by D.M. Dunlop, pp. 4-15.:

"...The chronicler Theophanes {died circa A.D. 818} who tells the story introduces them as "the Turks from the east whom they call Khazars." (Ed. Bonn, 485) On the other hand, the West Turks appear in the Greek writers simply as Turks, without special qualification. The Syriac historians mention the Khazars earlier than A.D. 627. Both Michael Syrus (Ed. Cabot, 381, col. 1, line 9) and Bar Hebraeus (Ed. Budge, 32b, col. 1, line 13) tell how, apparently in the reign of the Greek Emperor Maurcie (582-602), three brothers from "inner Scythia" marched west with 30,000 men, and when they reached the frontier of the Greeks, one of them, Bulgarios (Bar Hebraeus, Bulgaris), crossed the Don and settled within the Empire. The others occupied "the country of the Alans which is called Barsalia, " they and the former inhabitants adopting the name of Khazars from Kazarig, the eldest of the brothers. If as seems possible the story goes back to John of Ephesus (So Barthold, E.I., art. Bulghar) {died circa A.D. 586}, it is contemporary with the alleged event. It states pretty explicitly that the Khazars arrived at the Caucasus from central Asia towards the end of the 6th century. In the Greek writer Theophylact Simocatta {circa 620} we have an almost contemporary account of events among the West Turks which can hardly be unrelated to the Syriac story just mentioned. (Ed. Bonn, 282ff, Chavannes, Documents, 246ff) Speaking of a Turkish embassy to Maurice in 598, this author describes how in past years the Turks had overthrown the White Huns (Hephthalites), the Avars, and the Uigurs who lived on "the Til, which the Turks call the Black River." (Unidentified. Til is apparently the same as atil, itil, "river." Cf. Atil, Itil=the Volga. Zeuss (Die Deutschen, 713n.) denied that the Volga was meant. Marquart, followed by Chavannes (Documents, 251), suggested the Tola, a tributary of the Orkhon, which is probably too far east). These Uigurs, says Theophylact, were descended from two chiefs called Var and Hunni. They are mentioned elsewhere as the "Varchonites." (Menander Protector, ed. Bonn, 400) Some of the Uigurs escaped from the Turks, and, appearing in the West, were regarded by those whom they met as Avars, by which name they were generally known. The last part of this is confirmed by another Greek author, according to whom Justinian received representatives of The pseudo-Avars, properly Uigurs, in A.D. 558, (Menander, ibid., 282) after which they turned to plundering and laying wast the lands of eastern and central Europe. If the derivation from Uigur is right, the word "ogre" in folklore may date from this early period. Theophylact also tells us that about the time of the Turkish embassy in 598 there was another emigration of fugitives from Asia into Europe, involving the tribes of the Tarniakh, Kotzagers, and Zabender. These were, like the previous arrivals, descendants of Var and Hunni, and they proved their kinship by joining the so- called Avars, really Uigurs, under the Khaqan of the latter. It is difficult not to see in this another version of the story given by Michael Syrus and Bar Hebraeus. The Kotzagers are undoubtedly a Bulgar group, (Cf. Marquart, Streifziige, 488) while Zabender should be the same name as Samandar, an important Khazar town, and hence correspond to Kazarig in the Syriac. Originally, it seems, Samandar derived its name from the occupying tribe. (Menander, ibid., 282) ..."

Kaz 22:36, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] about source of Uar-Hunnoi

Your Page is good but the turkic source (Uar-Hunnoi) is bad source (facsist-panturkist). And "As a result of these excavations, it has been determined that the Turkish type (brachycephalic) had a significant level among various types such as Germanic, Slav, Iranian, Finno-Ugrian, etc" it's radiculous. True turkic Turks in Turkey are 5 - 7% (mtDNK, Y-chromosome). Brachikephal Europoid: Alpines, Balkanians, Caucasians, Pamirians (NO "TURKIC" BUT OLD PROTOCELTIC — BALKANO-CAUCASIAN or PAMIRO-ALPIN RACE). Another Source about antropologie of Eurasian Avars: "Liptak (1955) went into the details of Avar Period’santhropology in his candidate degree thesis.He stated his opinion that archeological chronology system was simply wrong.According to Liptak, too much cemeteries were dated for the 8th century and too few for the 7th and the 9th centuries.He pointed out as an obvious contradiction the fact, that 7th century, early Avar anthropological material was almost exclusively Europid, while grave-goods indicated Middleand Central Asian parallels. On the other hand there were cemeteries dated for the 8th century that contained Mongoloid elements among others. The attire and armament introduced by the Avars was rapidly adapted by other ethnic groups, it became the general fashion of the region in the 7th century.Therefore the separation of autochton elements was (and is)simply impossible by archeological means. That is why Liptak strongly emphasized that to talk of Avar Period population makes much more sense than to stick with the phrases of “the Avars” and of “Avar population”... Liptak outlined his view that the gracile Mediterranean type was autochton, while the brachycran Europid types were partly typical of the local inhabitants,partly they migrated to the Central Danubian Basin with the Avars. He found the origin of Cromagnoids, Nordoids and large stature Mediterraneans uncertain, and he indicated migration as the probable reason of their emergence. Liptak mentioned the Asiatic origin of Mongolid and Mongoloid population elements, but he did not go into the details of any closer relationship or parallel. Liptak analysed the Avar Period population of the Danube-Tisza midland region and stated that 80% of them was of Europid character.He separated narrow-faced dolichomorph types (Nordoid, Mediterranean) in 38%, broad-faced Cromagnoid types (A and B) in 22.6%, and brachycran forms(Pamirian, Dinarian, Near Eastern and short-headed individualsof undefined origin) in 17.1%... He found the tall stature, dolichomorph, narrow-faced variation (its frequency was 22%) non-homogenous. Liptk put the northern (Nordic) and tall Mediterraneans under this heading.He separated two regional varieties, a western(Atlanto-) Mediterranean one and an eastern or Indo-Iranian one...Liptak considered the gracile Mediterranean (Ibero-Cromagnoid types Insular) type the most significant component of the Avar Period population. The that were classified the descendants of the Upper-Palaeolithic Cromagnon race were rated important components of the Avar Period population by Liptak. He added that these types kept their significance in the Arpadian Age as well. The author put Pamirian (Pamiro-Ferganian), Dinarian, Alpine and Near Eastern (Armenoid types under the heading of brachycran) elements... Their presence was insignificant in the Avar Period. Liptak paid the most attention to the Turanid (South-Siberian)and to the Ural types from the Europo-Mongoloids. Noneof the two had much significance in the Avar Period, but they were dominant among the conquering Hungarians. Liptak identified and described in detail three kinds among the Mongoloids of the Avar Period: the Northern-Chinese(Chinid), the Central Asian Mongol and the palaeo-Siberian types. He considered the two later types the keycomponents of Avar Period Mongolids...Liptak voted for the dual origin theory when studying the ethnogenesis of the Avars.He called true-born (pure blooded)Avar (Varchonite) those small series which were characterized by Mongolid and Mongoloid features. According to Liptak’s opinion the progenitors of the Vachonite originated from beyond Lake Baykal,and they migrated into Southern- Central Asia only sometime later.From there they were forced out by the Turkis hpeoples, and so they escaped into the Central Danubian Basin.There were series with acomparatively high ratio of the Iranian type (Kiskoros-Varos alatt,Alattyan).Liptak named them ones with Hephtalite origin because he considered the Indo-Iranian Mediterranean type a significant ethnical component of the Hephtalites. This type could be traced back as far as Central Asia (Liptak1983)". Volume 44(1-4):87-94, 2000 Acta Biologica Szegediensis http://www.sci.u-szeged.hu/ABS. Erzsébet Fóthi. Anthropological conclusions of the study ofRoman and Migration periods Acta Biol Szeged 2000, 44:87-94 Abstract PDF. SYMPOSIUM Department of Anthropology, Hungarian Natural History Museum, Budapest,Hungary Anthropological conclusions of the study of Roman and Migration periods. Erzsebet Fothi.

In your Panturkist source "Uar-Hunnoi" is "Avars in Pannonia were brachikephales and Turks" in work of proffesional anthropologes is 38% Avars in Panonnia-Donau-Tisza were Nordoid, Cromagnon (=dolichokephales)and..."brachycran forms(Pamirian, Dinarian, Near Eastern and short-headed individuals of undefined origin) in 17.1%" (!). Cromagnon type in Caucasus is Caucasions (North Caucasian mountain blondes) anthropological Type of Alpin-Pamirian (Balkano-Caucasian) type. "Armenoid" brachikephal type is Hurrian type (Hurrites). In Pamir lives Iranian (Tadjiks). Mountain Tadjiks are pure Europoid. More Pushtunians of Kandagar are Blondes. Varhonites were Nordoids and Cromagnons: as German, Dinlins, Tokharians, Nirun-Mongols, Caucasiones, Pamirians (Alpin-Pamirians, Balcano-Caucasians): as Tadjiks, more Caucasians, Balkanians, Austrians, South Germanians and others (Celtic race), Northern Mongoloid (as Mongols from Baykal, Northern Chines and others). 80% were Europoids (Caucasoids).--Awarenstuermer 08:43, 24 September 2006 (UTC)