Wikipedia talk:U.S. Southern wikipedians' notice board

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Archive of First Notice Board Attempt, September - November 2004

Contents

[edit] Welcome back!

User:JCarriker asked me if I wanted to reopen the notice board, and I think now is a good time. Welcome back, everyone! Mike H 02:42, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. Bout time we got this back open. I'm down here in Fort Lauderdale (the physical south), but th' family's from South Carolina (Dixie). But I'll be keepin' an eye on South Florida topics, with possible translations into French and, (with help) Irish for their respective wikipedias. Also, I nominated a very lacking article for Collaboration of the Week, United States Bicentennial. Given the particularly American nature of this article, we may not make nomination, but I'm certain a few of my fellow Southern countrymen/women would be more than gracious to provide a helping hand! ℬastique▼talk 02:56, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Skinny Dippin'

If you are like a lot of Southerners I know, you might go Skinnydippin' in a creek or a river. That means you may know something about a local watershed. If that's the case, Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ecoregions could use your help organizing and expanding articles about your local tributary. Quinobi 06:38, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dixie

Well, hope this isn't too late, or off-the-wall, but I know of a little town in Virginia where the municipal band plays every week in the summer. Every performance is started with the playing of The Star Spangled Banner followed by Dixie. The funny thing is that sometimes you can see more people stand for Dixie than the National Anthem. And I don't think it has anything to do with race. People just associate the song with the South, and they are proud Southerners. Anyway, I guess I don't really make much sense, but what's new? --Lord Voldemort 5 July 2005 20:15 (UTC)

Keep in mind that, ironically, the South has always been an oppressed minority; it could never compete with the industrial North in terms of population, and it often came out on the bad end of legislation that benifitted the North. The slavery issue wasn't one of racism, but one of economics. The economy of the South was based on cotton, and raising cotton was a labor intensive, brutally hard task that, before the invention of modern agricultural tools, depended on slave labor. With the rise of the abolitionist movement in the North, and the election of an abolitionist President, the South saw the death of its entire economy looming on the horizon. There were slave states in the North, but they didn't have the dependency of the cotton economy that the Southern states did, and the Northern states were just as racist as the Southern (they didn't exactly welcome the influx of former slaves that moved north after the war). The South still views itself as an oppressed minority in many ways--after all, most of the political power in the US resides in the North and California, neither of which are at all economically or culturally like the South. Since the South is outnumbered politically, it's generally been a strong believer in state's rights, and given the recent cases expanding the power of the Federal government (I'm personally watching United States v. Stewart to see if they completely hose the commerce clause, finishing the transition to totally unlimited Federal power started by FDR), I think you could say the oppression is still there today.
(Of course, I am a bit biased--I was born in south MS, one of the poorest states in the nation, where the economy still hasn't recovered from Sherman's tactic of burning everything in sight). scot 5 July 2005 20:52 (UTC)
Most of the political power resides in the North and California? You're kidding, right? That perhaps at one time was true, but I don't think so anymore. The only person on the House majority leadership who isn't from the South is Hastert (Illinois) -- Blunt, the majority whip, is from MO and DeLay, the majority leader, is from Texas. Same in the Senate -- Frist, the majority leader, is from Tennessee, and his whip, Mitch McConnell, is from Kentucky. And of course Bush is from Texas. · Katefan0(scribble) July 5, 2005 21:05 (UTC)


And of course they have not the slightest bit of trouble with their agenda, and replacing O'Connor is going to just be a walk in the park... The telling detail is the makeup of Congress--they're the ones who make the laws, confirm the judges, and ratify the treaties; they're the ones with the real power. And while you're at it, count up electroal votes--the South is just a swing vote; carrying the Northeast and the West Coast gets you most of the way to the Presidency with only a handful of states; take the South and Midwest it's just a drop in the bucket, you've got to carry some of the states with major cities to win it; this is why both parties run moderates, hoping to get their target constituency plus enough of the fringes to bring in a win. Also keep in mind that Florida and Texas, the big population states in the South, tend to have very polarized votes. Look at county by county election returns for them, and you'll see that the major metro areas often vote against the rest of the state, and in many cases are sufficient to swing the entire state. "The South" mentality is more typical of the rural or small-town population than the major metro areas. scot 5 July 2005 21:43 (UTC)
Except for the truly rural Black Belt, which now votes against the Republicanized white south. The urban-suburban polarization is evident everywhere - just as much in Ohio, California and Pennsylvania as in Alabama and Louisiana. If you exclude all the voters (Urban areas, TX, FL) from the "true south" then you manufacture your own "south" which does not reflect geographic reality. Dystopos 5 July 2005 22:00 (UTC)
Actually, scot is probably more correct. Just because specific people might be from the South (Bush is a yank), doesn't mean the South has political power. California, New York, Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania all have huge electoral votes. The South has Texas and Florida (and no one ever knows what can happen there). Most of the power still does reside in scot's aforementioned locations. --Lord Voldemort 5 July 2005 21:18 (UTC)
Though the Bush family does hail from Connecticut, it is worth noting that George W's manufactured image as a Texan is considered to help, rather than hurt, his appeal. Likewise Jeb's move to Florida. As a voting bloc, the South is more powerful than any other region. To pretend otherwise you'd have to pretend that California and New York are one entity. Dystopos 5 July 2005 21:31 (UTC)
Enlighten me--on what major issues to NY and CA differ? Being of a Libertarian leaning, I tend to lump them both under the category "source of annoying economic and 2nd Amdendment policies". scot 5 July 2005 22:13 (UTC)
Californian governors, at least, tend to be pretty pro-gun and anti-union while the opposite typifies New York's state politics. Perhaps it's libertarianism that is marginal, rather than the South? Dystopos 5 July 2005 22:36 (UTC)
The why did Arnie ban .50 BMG rifles? Try buying an SKS, which is by no stretch of the imagination an "assault weapon" in CA. What about the "California Approved" handguns, which effectively ban handguns like the 1911, which, oddly enough, were safe enough for out military to use for well over 75 years? What about the longshoremen who make $177k a year? CA isn't as anti-gun or pro-union as NY (and especially NYC) but they aren't that far off, especially when you do a more apples-to-apples comparision between say, NYC and San Francisco. scot 6 July 2005 14:36 (UTC)
    • Not sure what it will accomplish to vent our political frustrations here, but a few points I'd like to refute:
    1. While the South could not compete with the population of the North in the early days, that was hardly oppression, or even an inconvenience to political power. The fact that abolition took as long as it did was an expression of Southern political might. The 3/5ths compromise or the very existence of the Senate in a bicameral legislative branch are testaments to the power of Southern delegates to minimize population as the sole measure of influence.
    2. The raising of cotton did not depend on slave labor. The plantation method of raising cotton did. Those without the resources to own slaves still produced cotton, but their farms were not the massively concentrated operations that plantations were.
    3. There were not slave states in the north after the Missouri Compromise in 1820.
    4. While most of the political power in the U.S. is outside the South, the South is considered a critical voting bloc, without which there is little hope of winning a national election.
    5. "Totally unlimited Federal power" is, blessedly, a great overstatement.
Ah, but overstatement is fun. If you stomp all over the commerce clause, then what does limit Federal power? scot 5 July 2005 22:13 (UTC)
    1. Sherman never led an army through Mississippi. He did not pioneer the tactics associated with him. He instructed his officers NOT to destroy property where their progress was unmolested, and that only Corps Commanders could authorize destruction in fair measure as retribution when they were attacked.

[1].

And yet the South burned, and "scorched earth" is forever associated with "Sherman's March to the Sea". Can't trace my mother's side of the family back beyond the 1860s because most of the records were burned. scot 5 July 2005 22:13 (UTC)
A narrow swath of Georgia burned (not "The South"). The purpose of the strategy, like nuclear strategy, was to hasten the end of warfare, ostensibly preventing ongoing destruction. Dystopos 5 July 2005 22:36 (UTC)
That may have been Sherman's goal, but it certainly wasn't the goal of everyone under his command. Also keep in mind that the South's goal was to escape what they saw as impending economic ruin, and a trend towards increasing Federal power and a corresponding reduciton in state sovereignty; the goal of the North was subjegation--yes, a loaded word, I know, but that's what a typical Southerner would have said. And would they have been all that wrong? The Union army did systematically attack Southern infrastructure (think railroads tied in knots, and the naval blockades) to destroy the South's ability to logistically and economically maintain the war; then they eliminated the Confederate government, and (again, in the Southern view) replaced the state leaders with puppet governments. scot 6 July 2005 14:36 (UTC)
Sherman's destruction of a narrow swath of South Carolina after the narrow swath of Georgia is well documented, including the razing of Columbia. I'm not involved in the rest of the debate...just had to get that little factoid out. ℬastique▼talk 6 July 2005 17:33 (UTC)
    1. To imagine that the modern south is a victim of political oppression requires an enormous imagination - as Katefan0 has already pointed out. Dystopos 5 July 2005 21:25 (UTC)
But the topic was Southern Pride, not history. If people perceive they are treated unfairly (and in many cases "unfairly" means "not biased enough in my favor") then they will develop a sense of unity based on the feeling of "us versus them". And that is why the Stars and Bars still flys in the South, and why people will stand for Dixie. scot 5 July 2005 22:13 (UTC)
Well said. Dystopos 5 July 2005 22:36 (UTC)

Yowzers!!! I just wanted to tell a little story, not fight politics or history. But I just have to correct one point above. The bicameral legislature helped those small New England states. It was James Madison (Virginian) at the drafting of the Constitution who fought hard for representation based on population. It was the small states up north who were afraid of the big states, including Virginia (the largest state at the time). And I think people underestimate the destructive role of "Reconstruction." It did set back the economy and political power. Even today you see many northern politicians running south to continue the time-honored tradition of carpetbagging. The South was being used, and may still be. But who cares about any of this. Politics are awful. Neither party makes complete sense. I just wanted to tell a nice little story about rural America. I'm amazed people actually read this page. I thought I would come back in a month or so and have one response. Maybe. Now I'm starting to wish I had never brought it up. I'll be seeing you later. --Lord Voldemort 6 July 2005 14:48 (UTC)

Hey, how y'all? There's some excellent insight here. A lot of it isn't rant, but very solid (and interesting) historical argument. You realize you don't have to rant in private; like Dorothy wearing those ruby slippers. A lot of this should be restated to NPOV, attributed, and put somewhere in the Wikipedia. I'm constantly surprised how much I learn when I really get a wedge into a subject. I just edited the Battle of Peachtree Creek, and although I spent some time on it, I'm sure I took away as much as I contributed. It was a double bonus for me, since I live right smack dab in the middle of the battlefield. Masonbarge 09:58, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:US Southern Wikipedians

I have created a new user category modeled after UK Wikipedians. Please consider listing yourself there. Please also consider listeing your self under Category:Millenial Wikipedians if you wer born in the 1980s or 1990s, or consider creatign a similar category for your generation. Thanks. -JCarriker 18:34, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Simple Question-Southern Wikipedians

Would like to add myself to Southern Wikipedians and the foreign section if there is one. Should I add my name in alphabetical order or at the bottom? Anybody that has the time please answer. Thanks. --Dakota 15:04, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

It was definitely alpha when I added myself; for the most part it seems so still, but it appears the bottom third of the list is a little messy right now. Autiger 05:00, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Where can I nominate an article for de-stubbing?

Can I just add Boggy Bayou Mullet Festival to the list, or do I have to propose it here? - Kookykman (talk • contribs)

Just do it -- use the edit process. Apollo 10:04, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

there is no process for destubbing an article beyond good judgment --Herzog 08:25, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

I added Okefenokee Swamp to the de-stubing list. GL12 06:27, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New WikiProject: Florida

Just wanted to mention the new WikiProject Florida, as it might be of interest here. Come over and join us! -- Tetraminoe 22:26, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Maryland/D.C. Editors?

A high-school student from Maryland posted on the Village Pump looking for a local editor to interview by email. Thought I'd mention it here in case someone can help. — Catherine\talk 00:48, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Santa Barbara Meetup

Hello. I'm going to be talking about Wikipedia at the Digital Transitions Forum in Santa Barbara and I have Saturday 8 April free. Would anyone in this area like to plan a Santa Barbara Wikipedia:Meetup? Please add your name to Wikipedia:Meetup/Santa Barbara with suggested times/locations if you would like to attend. Angela. 10:10, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New WikiProject: Louisville

Long overdue, I just started WikiProject Louisville today. Please join and participate if you are interested. Cheers! — Stevie is the man! Talk | Work

[edit] Standard naming scheme

Please see the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Regional notice boards#A uniform naming scheme. Zocky | picture popups 00:52, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lost and Found article - Long Bay

There doesn't seem to be a list for new articles or lost and found articles for the Southern USA or for USA Geography type atricles. (similar to these lists). I came across Long Bay. it is an orphan article that needs to be linked to other articles. I thought this might be the best place to post a message about it. -- Adz|talk 07:41, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Portal:Virginia

anyone else interested in starting one? Surprised this state with so much history doesn't have one... I can create it, just wanted to see if there was interest before I went to the trouble plange 03:37, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

The DYK section featured on the main page is always looking for interesting new and recently expanded stubs from different parts of the world. Please make a suggestion.--Peta 02:12, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed merger with Wikipedia:WikiProject Southern United States

Merge -first off i want to mention that currently there is an attempt to delete Wikipedia: WikiProject Southern United States. (see Discuss Deletion) secondly, being from alabama, i whole heartedly embrace the idea of merging the projects that have developed on this notice list to an official Southern united states project page. while it is just as possible for the list to retain its southern wikipedian status, this need not be exclusively up to us southerners to manage southern issues. we can use the help of historians, and southern cultural enthusiasts everywhere to improve articles pertaining to the south and southern interests. Some thing 16:46, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Comment - while not necessarily opposed to the proposal above, I would think a merger of the Project as a task force or work group with Wikipedia:WikiProject United States regions would be the more natural merger. Whether this notice board would like to merge with the Southern US project separately is a matter I as a non-participant of this notice board do not feel qualified to comment on. John Carter 16:55, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the merger was proposed the other way because there is significant overlap, not because it should be a subproject of another nonSouthern project. Chris 21:17, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] An Invitation from the Philippine Wikipedia Community

Hello folks,

The Philippine Wikipedia Community will be holding its 1st Meet-up in Cebu City (the fourth one in the Philippines) on June 23-24, 2008. This coincides with the first Philippine Open Source Summit, also to be held in Cebu. The Philippine Wikipedia Community is an Implementing Partner of the Open Source Summit. We invite you to join us in this event. If you are in the IT or IT-enabled services industry, this would be a great opportunity to meet people from the 4th best outsourcing city in the world. This is also a good excuse to visit our beautiful beaches :)

If you're interested in joining the Wikipedia meet-up, please join our discussion. You can register for the Open Source Summit here. If you would like some assistance with local accomodations, you may email User:Bentong Isles.

The Philippine Wikipedia Community
WP:PINOY

[edit] Inactive

I have added the {{inactive}} tag because there appears to be no activity here, similar to the lack of activity at another wikiproject that was proposed to be merged here. Both pages may be MfD subjects, but I'm not going to run them through yet; it's possible that the inactive tag will move some people to use this page again. Horologium (talk) 11:21, 1 June 2008 (UTC)