Talk:U.S. Route 50 in Nevada

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	U.S. Route 50 in Nevada has been listed as one of the Engineering and technology good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
April 12, 2008 Good article nominee Listed

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Topics	U.S. Highways U.S. auto trails Nevada State Routes
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Contents 1 Rationale for "high" importance 2 Major rewriting needed 3 Prose or list? 4 Assessment 5 Suggestion for History 6 I have a picture you all might want 7 GA review

[edit] Rationale for "high" importance

While I realize that U.S. routes are typically sorted into the "mid" category, I think that this article should be "high" importance, due to U.S. 50 in Nevada's prominence as "the loneliest road in America". It's been featured in numerous articles, has an association formed specifically about it, and has survival guides and certificates as proof you really did clinch it. —Scott5114↗ 20:37, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Major rewriting needed

The section that talks about the history of the route isn't written very well. Does anyone mind if I make some major corrections on it? The facts are just scattered and not in a certain order.-Mm555 20:24, 10 September 2007

No doubt it needs work, as do the state articles for Utah and Colorado. I've tried, but its not easy to condense the complicated history of this route into a few paragraphs, and have it all still be interesting. Give it a shot. I've also debated listing the 17 summits with their elevations, but not sure if that is appropriate. Davemeistermoab 04:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Please do note that some facts that are in that section right now, may not be there, as I may forget them, think they arn't important or incorrect, or "I couldn't fit them it!" type deal. Well, here it goes. -Mm555 17:01, 11 September 2007 (PST)

I tried(very overwhelmed). Hopefully it's a little better. The rerouting fact that I added/changed, if someone could verify that for me, that would be great. I know it was rerouted from it's original 1926 route to Salt Lake City, but I can't remember where I read it. Also the time when it was rerouted to Salt Lake City, I can't remember the year it was rerouted and the time it was rerouted again to it's original present-day route. If you change anything, I like to know what you changed, not that I can't possibly disagree with you as I have some doubt about what I wrote, but I feel more comfortable knowing what changes have been made. Also (to Davemeistermoab) if you still want the elevations I've listed them they are as follows: Robinson Summit, El 7539; Little Antelope Summit, El 7438; Pancake Summit, El 6492; Pinto Summit, El 7350; Hickison Summit, El 6546; Bob Scotts Summit, El 7195; Austin Summit, El 7484; New Pass Summit, El 6348. And there it is straight from the "Official State Map" just in case you want them. :) Thanks!-Mm555 17:36, 11 September 2007 (PST)

As currently written it is not correct. The 1926 routing may have had a discontinuity from Ely Nevada to Thistle Utah (sources disagree). Then the route was connected via Salt Lake in 1928-1930's (depending on source, but either way long before the 50's), it was moved to the route now numbered US6 in the 50's (through Delta, utah to Spanish Fork, etc.). It was re-routed in the 70's again to its current route. Sources: http://www.geocities.com/usend5059/End050/end050.htm Talks about the discontinuity. Though this is the only source that mentions it. I've generally found that "mapguy" (the owner of this site) has done his homework, and haven't found holes in his data yet. http://members.aol.com/utahhwys/041-060.htm#rte050 Talks about post route changes, doesn't mention discontinuity. Note Dan Stober's pages are excellent overall. But I have found errors in dates and numbers in his work. I wouldn't take these years literally unless a 2nd source is found. http://www.rockymountainroads.com/us-050_nv.html This is an excellent site, but contradicts some items in Mapguy's pages.

Also I see you've worked on US395. Did US 395 really go to the Mexican Border? Everything I've read the terminus was in downtown San Diego. Almost, but not quite to the border. Davemeistermoab 01:05, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Oops. Did some reseach to verify, you're right, it ended in San Diego. I made the correction on that page already. It was US 101, sorry about that, my mistake. All this time I thought it was US 395. Anyway the sources you found, they might be correct. But with reality, it's hard to find what is fact and what is a misconseption. Not to say that they're wrong, I have no right to say that because I don't know too many facts about the whole rerouting thing with the highways myself because, let's face it, I've learned that there has been so much rerouting with the US Highway System that I think it's almost impossible to find anything. Either that or I haven't been looking in the right places, but that's the thing with the internet. I think in some cases, books are a better deal. But even they have some downsides, as with anything. Anyway, just found another site, http://www.route50.com/history.htm, not that I think it will help any, but its a valid source, right? If I have time I'll hunt for more.Mm555 23:14, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Prose or list?

WP:MOS makes it clear the prose is preferred over lists. The route description section of this article is currently mostly in list format. Two editors (myself and Mm555) have tried and apparently given up on trying to write this in prose. The problem is there's so much named, but relatively unknown stuff along this highway. Interstate 80 in Nevada is much easier, even though it's the same length of highway. Roughly half I-80's length can be summarized by "follows the Humboldt river". But US 50 doesn't follow anything. More of a seemingly unending series of mountains and desert basins broken up by an occasional town. Could some prose expert give us a hand here? What should we do? Any assistance would be most appriciatedDavemeistermoab (talk) 22:34, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

On the whole, I think that following the guidelines is a good idea to ensure consistent and professional articles. However, this particular issue seems to be difficult enough that two editors have tried and not come up with something that they liked. In that case, perhaps leaving it as a list is the best thing to do. In the end, clarity is the most important thing. I've resorted to lists in other articles before I saw your comment. I felt that prose, in those particular circumstances, made the information needlessly difficult to follow and uninteresting. There's no point in that. Pcp125 (talk) 21:51, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. Davemeistermoab (talk) 04:52, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Assessment

Because of the list content here for cities, passes and points of interest - plus the lack of a junction list, I am very skeptical about giving this a B-class rating. A second opinion is requested.  — master son^{T - C} 04:17, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Never mind, I retract my request. As mentioned above, I am requesting help to convert the list into prose. I'm willing to do it, but need some suggestions. I've tried myself and given up.Davemeistermoab (talk) 06:49, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion for History

Links for SR-2 redirect to US-50. While the two share a common history for some sections, one section of SR-2 was never part of US-50. Adding references to SR-2's history will probably make the history of US-50 long and confusing. Referring to the part that never was US-50 doesn't make sense. I suggest creating a separate page for SR-2 and cross-referencing it with US-50. I can supply the information for SR-2. That will allow both routes to be properly addressed without making either one needlessly long or confusing. Opinions? Pcp125 (talk) 18:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I would be opposed to creating a separate article for SR2. They are about 85% the same. My opinion would be to get the US 50 in Nevada article into shape first (it's come a long way, but still needs a lot of work). Then, if the article is deemed good but long, break off a section into SR2. The Nevada Highways project has WAY to many stub articles to be considering splitting articles at this time. IMO.Davemeistermoab (talk) 22:19, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I have a picture you all might want

Back in August of 1995 I was a truck driver and broke down out between Ruth and that next little town, and had to wait 8 hours for a tow truck to come from Carson City. During my wait one truck and two cars passed by where I sat. I took a pic of my truck sitting on the side of the road, from behind, with safety triangles laid out, and the empty desert all around: http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/akqj9/us50breakdownaug95.jpg I don't want to just stick it in the article because I'm new around here and not aware of all the related policies.

That pic is rather low res, but I can rescan if needed. Might also need to be brightened which I'm not really qualified to do. Anyway, if it's wanted let me know. Truckerbomb (talk) 22:06, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi Truckerbomb,

What you can do is create an account on Wikimedia Commons (just use your same name as you use for Wikipedia is fine). Upload the image there. Be sure you state the terms of you giving this photo to wikimedia (i.e. giving it away to public domain, attribution required, etc.) Then don't forget to link it to the. Then it will be accessible not only to the english wikipedia, but the French, German, etc. You can use this as a guide: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Loniestroad.jpg Davemeistermoab (talk) 22:11, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA review

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

   The lead should be a summary of the rest of an article, not a cut-and-paste of another paragraph in the article. Bold text should only occur in the lead, per WP:LEAD. Also, the presence of italicized text should be avoided (but I don't know if I can cite a specific MOS point on that).

Cut out material from the lead, and changed so the first instance of "Nevada State Route 2" is bolded, not the 2nd. However, IMO "Loneliest Road in America" should be emphasized in some fashion, either bolded or italicized. Italics are covered by WP:MOS#Italics, however, I'm not sure after reviewing this, which is more appropriate. Davemeistermoab (talk) 08:07, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

OK I've thought about this some more. I think bold is more appropriate than italics, as a synonym and target of a redirect.Davemeistermoab (talk) 18:54, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

1. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

2. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   "This portion of the highway traverses Spring Valley which is part of a controversial plan to pipe water to Las Vegas." Needs a comma if the sentence stays, but I would rather drop it because explaining the plan would require a lot of time and space not related to US 50, I imagine. "Some people have disputed that US 50 still deserves the tile of the loneliest road in America." While this is cited, I don't think that particular point carries any weight for what is largely a symbolic designation, not one backed by numbers.

Agree on the "Spring Valley" statement. Not so sure on the "Some people dispute", while US-50's nickname is a symbolic designation, it's hard to refute "3 towns in a span of 409 miles" is a qualifier for a lonely road. While this was the only reliable source I could find that challenges US 50's nickname, there are several roadgeek and nevada "blog" websites that attempt to debunk the nickname using various means. I feel it deserves some mention, but admit as presently worded may sound like a tangential detail. I'll think about it and see if I can improve this.Davemeistermoab (talk) 08:07, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I made some changes to these and I hope this is better, advise if you have any objections.Davemeistermoab (talk) 18:54, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

1. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   "However, its reputation for loneliness is merited." Not NPOV - show, don't tell. :-D

Statement removed. Davemeistermoab (talk) 08:07, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

1. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

2. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

3. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Let me know what you think of the above. Thanks! —Rob (talk) 18:56, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the review. I do agree with your suggestions, although a few caught me by surprise and I had to think about them. One question for you. The bolded terms are names that redirect to this page (Nevada State Route 2, Nevada State Route 7, etc.). I was under the impression that these should be bolded in their first instance, even if only mentioned in the history section. However the MOS is vague on this (unless I missed something). I have another article I'm getting ready to submit for FA nomination (Interstate 70 in Utah). In its current form, it has one such instance (Utah State Route 4 redirects to that page, only mentioned in the history section, and first instance is bolded). This article has passed multiple peer reviews, GA nomination, and A class nomination without anybody mentioning this. So I'm confused. I understand your take, but do you have any examples or guidelines that clarify what to do here? Know of any FA's where this was brought up in the nomination process? Thanks Davemeistermoab (talk) 05:20, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Taking a look in WP:LEAD, nowhere does it forbid the usage of boldface outside of the lead. WP:Redirect indicates that readers should know why they are being redirected to a page when they didn't search for it. All of the MI articles I've written where a designation has be replaced by another and that former designation redirects to the newer one have bolding on first mention. I've seen it many other places as well. I say it should be left alone. Imzadi1979 (talk) 06:05, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

To be fair, at the time of the review Nevada State Route 2 was mentioned in the lead, but bolded in the history section. This was sloppy editing on my part, in fact I only just a few minutes ago noticed it. It is now fixed. I have left bolding on the the other Nevada State Routes that redirect to this page not mentioned in the lead for now, let's see how this plays out.Davemeistermoab (talk) 08:12, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I've had more than my share of sloppy editing, so no big deal. I think I sent the wrong link over... from MOS:BOLD...

Use italics, not boldface, for emphasis in article text. Use boldface in the remainder of the article only for a few special uses:

• Table headers
• Definition lists (example: David E. Kelley)
• Volume numbers of journal articles, in some bibliographic formats

Short on time at the moment, so if you have any further questions let me know! —Rob (talk) 14:28, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

(resetting indent) What I have done is changed the lead to state that US 50 in NV was derived from many former Nevada State Routes, primarily SR 2. Hopefully, this makes it unnecessary to bold the other Nevada state routes that redirect here mentioned only in passing in the history section. However, to Imzadi's point this may need some further discussion. I'm seeing a LOT of road articles done this way (bold items in the history section that are redirect terms). While this may or may not be the right thing to do, the result of this discussion should be brought to the attention of WP:USRD as this seems to be common practice over there, including in my own contributions.Davemeistermoab (talk) 18:54, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree... I think the concerns for this particular article have been addressed, but I'll start a discussion regarding MOS:BOLD over there. —Rob (talk) 20:40, 12 April 2008 (UTC)